The false perception Stephen is running Cowboys Football

[Diehardblues]

I think this perception comes from the tendency of fans to look at extremes rather than recognize the more likely middle of the road explanation. We see it with a lot of topics, and in this case the extremes are either Jerry is running it all, or Stephen is now in charge. The much more likely reality is that there is more inclusion of thoughts and opinions than maybe their once was - that Jerry is listening more to guys like McClay and Stephen and coaching staff, and therefore the decisions are made on a more productive collection of thoughts. But there really is no way to reasonably believe Jerry has turned over the reins. Nothing the public has ever seen in his personality would suggest he is the kind of person that could step aside, plus he is still frequently seen in front of the camera. And he owns the place.

Well said Rogers!

 

[Diehardblues]

Thanks everyone for keeping it Civil . These Hot Topics are fun.

 

[Rockport]

I’m not saying ‘find another team’

I’m saying intelligence is better than stupidity
I’m saying thinking for yourself is better than blind worship
I’m saying eyes open is better than eyes closed
I’m saying at least as a fan, say that mediocre and ‘relevant ‘ is not good enough

So what if I can’t change the team or it’s decisions?
I’m darned if I say they are good when they are horrible

The things you can’t see because of your blind hate is that they’re not terrible and quite the opposite. Now I expect a “buh buh when was the last time they won a Super Bowl?” That’s ignorant, naive and a total lack of understanding the NFL and parity in place by the rules.

 

[Blackrain]

I don’t know, you’ll have to ask the guy who started the thread.

Speaking for myself, it matters not at all. The franchise is inarguably among the most well run in the league, and that’s all I care about. I’m just happy the dysfunction is gone.

However, it apparently does matter to the OP. Why it would be important to him to make sure “new” fans don’t think Stephen is in charge, I don’t know. But it must be very important to him because not only did he start this thread, but he has started numerous threads about the same subject.

To each their own, I suppose.

It matters because with Jerry in charge we will continue to be one piece short of finishing the puzzle . Jerry has put a low value on coaching since winning a SB with Switzer and it has haunted us for years .
We have talent we are well run but we desperately need that guy in big games that can pull the rabbit out of the hat . Jerry has trouble getting along with guys that can do that because usually they don't have the most congenial personalities and make him uncomfortable .

Jerry has the last word on the HC that's why we do and will continue to exit the playoffs quickly

 

[Blackrain]

This I agree with you on. IMO, Garrett has has a big influence on their talent acquisitions, among other things.

He had the vision for what type of team he wants (physical, smart guys, who love football) and he has gotten McClay,and Stephen onboard with looking for the kind of guys that fit his team.

Garrett has a lot to do with the talent on this team.

It is why I’m not sure that getting a new coach is the right thing to do.

Garrett is great at acquiring the talent and getting them to never quit just not good at putting them in the right positions to win in big games

 

[Chocolate Lab]

My life’s ambition is to out live Jerry. Lol

I hope you're in your 40s, maybe 30s...

 

[glimmerman]

SJ and McClay is having more input as of late.

 

[CouchCoach]

I’m not saying ‘find another team’

I’m saying intelligence is better than stupidity
I’m saying thinking for yourself is better than blind worship
I’m saying eyes open is better than eyes closed
I’m saying at least as a fan, say that mediocre and ‘relevant ‘ is not good enough

So what if I can’t change the team or it’s decisions?
I’m darned if I say they are good when they are horrible

And again, what does that change? I think for myself and do not blindly worship this team but I do not have lofty expectations nor am I a SB or bust fan. I try to objectively and realistically look at this team and their chances but that in no way affects my being a fan. I am a fan regardless of the outcome or record.

I don't know how you are applying "horrible". They were horrible in 2015 but have had winning records the last 4 of 5 years and won the division 3 times. That's horrible?

Not singling you out at all but if I sent people in to read this forum and guess the record of this team over the last 5 years, after reading nothing but the Garrett and Prescott slam threads, what do you think they would guess? 3 out of 5 division titles?

So the team hasn't had the success over the last 5 years of a handful of teams but they're a lot better than 75% of the NFL. That's not mediocre.

 

[JoeKing]

Thanks everyone for keeping it Civil . These Hot Topics are fun.

Bite me, Diehard! These offseason topics are driving me nuts! I can't wait to debate ways to improve the team based on how each player is performing. Or how many games get played before Garrett gets his contract extended or fired depending on how the season goes. Thanks for trying to distract us with your lame topics (just kidding) but I need some real football games to talk about.

 

[Blackrain]

And again, what does that change? I think for myself and do not blindly worship this team but I do not have lofty expectations nor am I a SB or bust fan. I try to objectively and realistically look at this team and their chances but that in no way affects my being a fan. I am a fan regardless of the outcome or record.

I don't know how you are applying "horrible". They were horrible in 2015 but have had winning records the last 4 of 5 years and won the division 3 times. That's horrible?

Not singling you out at all but if I sent people in to read this forum and guess the record of this team over the last 5 years, after reading nothing but the Garrett and Prescott slam threads, what do you think they would guess? 3 out of 5 division titles?

So the team hasn't had the success over the last 5 years of a handful of teams but they're a lot better than 75% of the NFL. That's not mediocre.

All true coach we are not mediocre . We are a playoff team just not a SB contender and I am content with that also because no matter how much I bench race the problem . I cant fix it from here . So Im happy to watch us run the ball well ,play much better defense led by our young LBs and see Dak progress into a QB I very much like to watch .

Garrett is who he is MEDIOCRE , great at many facets of being a HC but PROVEN to be lacking in enough to keep us from taking a deep run . Playoffs are the ceiling Im OK with It

 

[Diehardblues]

Bite me, Diehard! These offseason topics are driving me nuts! I can't wait to debate ways to improve the team based on how each player is performing. Or how many games get played before Garrett gets his contract extended or fired depending on how the season goes. Thanks for trying to distract us with your lame topics (just kidding) but I need some real football games to talk about.

We’re getting close . Offseason is almost over.

 

[Diehardblues]

All true coach we are not mediocre . We are a playoff team just not a SB contender and I am content with that also because no matter how much I bench race the problem . I cant fix it from here . So Im happy to watch us run the ball well ,play much better defense led by our young LBs and see Dak progress into a QB I very much like to watch .

Garrett is who he is MEDIOCRE , great at many facets of being a HC but PROVEN to be lacking in enough to keep us from taking a deep run . Playoffs are the ceiling Im OK with It

I’m not sure how much deeper we should be going in playoffs? We don’t have a #1 defense, Elite QB or top 10 offense. And don’t have an Elite HC.

Who’s going to championships without one of those?

This might be about as good as it gets.

Shoot we were 3-4 going nowhere. After a 9-7 non playoff season. I thought last year was great. We had 18 meaningful games.

 

[Whirlwin]

Well then I can be assured you will no longer place any blame on him, right?

I challenge you, I have over a hundred thousand post between the old Cowboys fan forum and this new one. To find one post where I blame Jerry or anyone else for that matter for anything. The difference with me and most people is I don't judge. I don't blame.

 

[Whirlwin]

Well then I can be assured you will no longer place any blame on him, right?

So when you say no longer. You must have proof where I have. Again I challenge you to produce it. It's not like you to accuse.

 

[Whirlwin]

I don't think you are very far from apart from my opinions; whereas, the OP is completely the opposite of my opinions.

I don't know that it really matters what we as fans think; however, the concept of the OP not being able to understand anything that is not spelled out in black and white seems to be a recurring issue at CZ.

People like the OP think that their lack of knowledge is proof of something. If there is not a "link" clearly explaining something, then they'll refuse to believe even the most obvious indications on an issue.

It makes me think of the difference between men with regards to women. Some men just don't function well when it comes to "dating" while other men are much better at it. With most women the man must understand non-verbal communication and many things that are very subtle. Some men think that anytime a pretty girl is nice to them that it means the girl is interested.

I'm a big fan of Jerry and always have been.

I've defended criticism about him in regards to issues like how he fired Landry, etc..

I've said the Cowboys would NOT have won the 3 Super Bowls in the Nineties if Jerry had not purchased the team.

I've said that Jerry won 3 Super Bowls in what is now 30 years which is still a better SB win rate than Landry at 2 in 29.

Having said that, I think we all know Jerry has made some big mistakes, often because of emotion/ego.

The only employees that he has had that would say no to him were Jimmy and Parcells.

Stephen Jones has evolved into someone that can say no to Jerry because he is not an employee per se.

All owners have the final say. Kraft can over-rule Belichick if he wants to do it.

Most of the media believe that Belichick was grooming Jimmy Garoppolo to be the next QB for the Pats and that Kraft said no possibility of Brady departing.

I think we all know that Jerry is never going to officially give up the GM Title. He didn't give it to Parcells despite Parcells appearing to have as much power as most GMs.

It "seemed" that Jerry and his people convinced Parcells to take Ware first. It did not appear that Jerry directly over-ruled Parcells.

Jerry should definitely get credit for being the tie breaker in 2013 when Ciskowski and Garrett wanted to draft the DT Floyd and Marinelli said Floyd was not worth it in his scheme.

That 2013 debacle where Ciskowski didn't work with ALL of the coaches when putting together the draft board was the final straw and Will McClay was promoted above Ciskowski prior to the 2014 draft.

Stephen Jones appeared to have been on the Marinelli side of that difference of opinions.

After that draft, Stephen Jones when asked about Ciskowski “I don’t want to single a guy out, but ... It won’t happen again."

It was shortly after that comment that Will McClay was promoted above Ciskowski.

Then in 2014 they picked Zack Martin over Manziel. Jerry talked about wanting Manziel both before and after that draft. He lamented that he was "sick" that they might regret the decision.

Jerry again used the "I'm sick" reference in 2016 when they didn't trade up and draft Paxton Lynch. He literally said on the radio after that draft that it makes him mad to think about not getting Lynch.

If you listened to the interviews with Jerry and Stephen that year, it was abundantly clear that not drafting Lynch was an SJones decision and that Jerry would have preferred to make the trade.

Jerry and Stephen each have a weekly radio show during the season. I can't imagine anybody that listens to those does not believe that the Cowboys are operating under the SJones plan. The plan being to focus on the draft, avoid big dollar outside free agents, sign low level free agents to fill the gaps, clean up the cap in preparation to sign their own draft picks to 2nd contracts, etc..

SJones explained on radio all of the details about the process leading up to the Amari Cooper trade. He went into detail about getting word late in the week the Raiders were shopping Cooper, SJones telling the Raiders to give him until Monday, then the staff spending the weekend reviewing all aspects of trading for Cooper and finally to Monday when they agreed on the trade.

The DLaw negotiations also showed that SJones was in charge of negotiating that contract. DLaw's agent did multiple interviews afterwards and there was no doubt that Stephen was making the decisions and that Jerry was not involved.

The last time that Jerry appeared to over-ride SJones was in 2015 when they signed Dez to the big contract. This one is not quite as obvious as the other issues I've outlined above, but SJones said before that contract that they have the Franchise Tag for a reason and that they had planned from a cap perspective to be able to carry a player on the Franchise Tag without it putting them in a bind like it had in some years past.

Fast forward to April 2018 when the Cowboys cut Dez. Again, it seems also impossible for anybody that listened to all of the interviews afterwards with Jerry, Stephen and Garrett that Jerry/Garrett wouldn't have cut Dez if strictly making the decision themselves. On the flip-side SJones was almost giddy about it.

On the downside of the SJones decisions, in Feb/March of 2018 he basically empowered Linehan to have full control of all decisions on offense. SJ again in a radio interview, used the example of how it was "not really fair" back when they had Bill Callahan calling plays but didn't empower him to have control over the offense.

Side Note on Callahan: It was 2013 when Callahan called plays and it was often discussed here how Garrett would never really acknowledge when questioned by the media that Callahan would call the plays. It's also well known that Callahan departed the Cowboys for the same job with the Skins despite the Joneses trying to get him to stay. The reason he departed is because he and Garrett basically hated each other and that appears to have started back in 2012 with disagreements over OLine starters and escalated to a point that Jerry forced them to compromise and rotate 2 players at a position.

Some issues where Jerry did appear to exert some influence since 2014:

Randy Gregory: Jerry had multiple discussions directly with Gregory during the draft. According to Jerry he didn't really force the pick of Gregory but he repeatedly made it clear to everyone that he would "take the blame" if the Gregory pick failed due to character/weed related issues.

Jaylon Smith: Similar to Gregory, Jerry repeatedly made it clear that he would "take the blame" if Jaylon couldn't play due to the injury.

Jerry's explanation of "I'll take the blame" points to him not really being the one directly making the picks.

Jerry should get an A for the input on the Jaylon pick.

Most people would give the Cowboys a fail on Gregory but for me that's a grade of Incomplete. Gregory does not accrue time towards true free agency for the seasons that he is suspended and not on the 53 man roster for at least 6 games. His contract will expire but he'll be a restricted free agent until he has 4 accrued seasons of service. It does not take up a roster spot when he is suspended and he does not get paid.

The OP seems desperate to maintain that Jerry is making all GM type decisions because he wants to be able to blame Jerry for all mistakes.

The OP took comments that I made in his other thread and then created this completely new thread in an attempt to dispute that SJones is functioning like the GM for most other teams.

I have never said anything negative about Jerry I just don't believe he does it all by himself. I believe it's an organizational process. Having the final say and giving the final say a two different choices all I think Jerry cares about is winning and if that means releasing some of his authority he will do so. That's all I'm saying. He doesn't need to be the one and only. Some people believe he is. They Praise Him. And that's not something you praise somebody for. Selfishness

 

[CouchCoach]

Thanks everyone for keeping it Civil . These Hot Topics are fun.

You're just calling this a Hot Topic because it's yours, civility hour is over. The gloves are coming off.

 

[Whirlwin]

When the league lists Stephen as GM then Stephen will be running the Cowboys. Until then Jerry is still GM and he can ultimately over rule any decisions made by anyone else in the Cowboys organization. Some may not like that but that doesn't change the facts.
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You still don't get it my cowboy brother. Just because everybody thinks it's Jerry and Jerry alone doesn't make it true.

 

[Whirlwin]

As another poster said, unless any of us sit in on their meetings and discussions all of those saying Stephen is running things is nothing more than guess work and/or opinions. Like I said until the league lists Stephen as GM, Jerry is still the one in charge.
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The same can be said about. It's all Jerry unless you sit on on it you don't know. So it's just your opinion and mine

 

[Whirlwin]

When the league lists Stephen as GM then Stephen will be running the Cowboys. Until then Jerry is still GM and he can ultimately over rule any decisions made by anyone else in the Cowboys organization. Some may not like that but that doesn't change the facts.
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So until it's in writing you don't buy it. That's comical come on. You're smarter than that. Like Jerry is going to lose his throne and admit it. Jerry is an extremely intelligent individual. That means he's willing to listen to other intelligent people even if that means you realize their decision is better. So I guess because you take someone else's opinion over his own he still in charge. Too funny. It's an organizational mindset I believe that's the difference.

 

[Whirlwin]

Does Stephen get credit for lowering the Bar here this era. Or is on Jerry ? Lol

Let me guess.. Stephen only gets credit for the good stuff. Jerry the bad.

Than goodness Jerry’s still the boss or we’d of missed the playoffs last year.

This is starting to become people hate Jerry and love Steven. Well that's not it for me. Intelligence is listening to intelligence surrounding yourself with people smarter than you. Without putting Jerry down. Is that what it means to like someone else and think they're doing it. I don't think so personally