All22 Review: Collins vs Leary

TwentyOne said:

I am not sold on him yet.

Dont missunderstand me, i love Collins and i think he has alot of talent and can be a great player for us one day.

But since i watched him play he seems to be very hectic in eveything that he does. It often looks like he wants to do three things at a time, in the end does two things but only half the way he was supposed to do it. He lacks some power but that will change with another offseason. He has problems in passprotection and against power rushers. But again i am very sure that will also be cleaned up.

I am not sure if this (being so hectic) is his playing style or its because he is still nervous. If its the later and he will learn to take his time then the sky is the limit for him. If its his playing style then i have my doubts regarding his success. It does not look like a good fit for our OL. But that does not mean he wont be a good player. I just think he should learn to settle down and do one thing the right way instead trying to do alot of things and none of them good.

Anyway... I love his attitude alot. I like nasty players who are a bit cocky (like he was in his first interview after we signed him).

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I think he's going to be very good, if not great O-Linemen because he has the athleticism and nastiness. He's played college ball at a high level against tough competition and flourished. And he takes well to coaching and was a legit top-15 talent in the draft.

He's just not nearly as polished as Martin and Frederick were coming out of the draft. Very few are. I think he needs to work on his hand placement and his lower body strength. Learning the stunts and blitzes will come with experience. Even still, I would like to see Leary return to his old form and be able to move Collins to RT down the road.




YR

65fastback2plus2 said:

randle also having bad vision doesnt mean demarco didnt lol

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man demarco was bad in the open field, wasn't he ?

Yakuza Rich said:

Murray didn't lose the game for us in Green Bay.

The defense couldn't stop Rodgers and we got screwed on a horrific call where the VP of Officiating is oblivious to the rule book because he's never refereed a game on ANY level and his qualifications are he was a failed stand-up comic.

Even if the catch was called correctly and we score a TD, I have my doubts if the defense could have held Green Bay. Still, I would have liked to have found out. Either way...1 fumble doesn't cost us that game.

I consider elite to be a top-4 player in that player's position. I think last year Murray was a top-4 player in his position.

And I think if you looked at last year's performance and combine it with the RB's this year, only AP is decidedly better than what Murray was last season.

Murray wore down last year (albeit not by much) because he logged in a whopping 436 carries last season. There's not a tailback out there that is not going to wear down some after carrying the ball 436 times in a season.

The issue with Murray is that we had other players to pay, like Dez. And he just came off a season with a ridiculous amount of carries and the past history of players with more than 380 carries in a season and their subsequent seasons is not good.

Murray was elite last year. We just burned him out with so many carries that it made it a bad idea to pay him what Philly gave him.





YR

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That fumble looked like a ten point swing. It was blocked well enough to possibly have been a td and instead it ended up points for GB.

Carharris2 said:

Yes. That was there too.

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Well I guess that goes back to patience and vision, I mean if the blocking starts you that way, the lane is there and he can't see it? There might be a problem

NeonDeion21 said:

http://www.ctclive.com/2015/10/lael-collins-is-right-choice-for-both.html

One reason I believe Dallas made the move to Collins is that he's just a better athlete than Leary at this point in his career. Collins can get out to the second level quicker, which will help turn short gains into longer runs. Here's an example of how quickly Collins gets to the second level:


La'el Collins at the second level

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The intended hole was front side (right of Fred). The read is the defender that Fred is blocking. The read took Randle to the backside, but Fred's man was coming back to that side.

If Randle could have run right up the left side of Fred before the defender got over, then yes, it would have been the preferred hole; however, it's difficult to know if that was possible.

IMO, there is a good chance that if he stayed tight to Fred's block that he gains less than he actually gained by cutting wide left.

I've seen a similar issue a few times this year. I would like it if when Fred is losing the block to prevent the defender from closing down the front side (right side) gap, that Fred would just drive the defender right. Instead they have Fred just hold a neutral type block which results in minimal space on either the front side or back side.
http://i394.***BLOCKED***/albums/pp26/xwalker20000/randle-falcons2_zpse7lbxpjn.jpg

Yakuza Rich said:

I think he's going to be very good, if not great O-Linemen because he has the athleticism and nastiness. He's played college ball at a high level against tough competition and flourished. And he takes well to coaching and was a legit top-15 talent in the draft.

He's just not nearly as polished as Martin and Frederick were coming out of the draft. Very few are. I think he needs to work on his hand placement and his lower body strength. Learning the stunts and blitzes will come with experience. Even still, I would like to see Leary return to his old form and be able to move Collins to RT down the road.

YR

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I did not watch Collins in College. Maybe its just the pessimist in me that cant be very happy with what we have in him.
But i am always a little reluctant before i rate a player (i take my time and want to see consistency before i make up my mind).
And i am very demanding when in comes to giving out good grades. But that of course also has alot to do with the expectations i have for a player of his advertised talent.

I also do hope that Leary will play better again. And i do think he will. I see no reason why he shouldn't. I am very sure his groin injury is the main problem.

Yakuza Rich said:

Yup.

Anytime you see RB's making giant cuts like Randle is doing, it's likely that he's not following the design of the play. Especially in the WCO where you're basically looking to make 1 cut at the most and the angle is more obtuse.

Frederick doesn't really get off the ball well in the first .gif, but Randle just needs to go to off his left shoulder and there's a good crease there.

YR

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The Cowboys are not a WCO (West Coast Offense).

They are do use a ZBS (Zone Blocking Scheme).

speedkilz88 said:

That fumble looked like a ten point swing. It was blocked well enough to possibly have been a td and instead it ended up points for GB.

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To me that fumble was the story of the game and it was the main reason we lost.

And it felt like an exclamation mark to DeMarcos season. He had to fumble and he had to fumble big time in this game. Otherwise something would have just been wrong. To me it felt like a story someone wrote and thought about a fitting end so the story would feel round and complete to the reader.

tyke1doe said:

It look like that play was designed to go to the right, and Randle cut it back to the left.

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Zone runs are not designed for a specific hole. The RB should "read" Fred's block. If Fred's man is on his right and closing down that side, then the RB should cut back. The question on this run is if Randle should have stayed tight to Fred's left shoulder or if he should have gone far right which is what happened.

CowboyStar88 said:

Fred was sealing off his block, Collins was at the second level and smith had just made his cut block as Randle bounched outside. That lane opened up, and it could've gone for more yards. I have no doubts that Murray takes that hole, as he would've waited for the play to develop there.

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I've watched the play from 3 different angles and I've seen it in slow motion. There is no certainty that it would have been better if he stayed tight to Fred's block. It might have worked, but he also might have gained less yards depending on how fast Fred's defender get back over. He does get back over, it's just a matter of how fast he could get there. He would have been going over and back if Randle followed that path and not straight over as he actually did in when Randle when right. Randle would have had to stay tight to Fred's block, otherwise the defender that was cut blocked would have been a problem.
http://i394.***BLOCKED***/albums/pp26/xwalker20000/randle-falcons2_zpse7lbxpjn.jpg

CowboyStar88 said:

That's a strong remark there Catch... You are really holding onto this guy like he is the second coming. He isn't as good as you've made him out to be in your head. They will look to upgrade from this guy because he isn't that good.

You're a fanboy of his and we get that so you will just disagree because you see it as a fan of Randles.

We are analyzing this play because it's not the only play, but its a great example, I'm sorry if your feelings are hurt over the fact that some of us do not care for Randle or his lack of talent. Don't turn into Bleu Star when he had his love affair for Choice... Sorry @Bleu Star hehe

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Man. Y'all need to lay off of my boy Tulious.

Fact: Randle is a change of pace scatback.

Fact: The front office tried to make him a pace setter.

Fact: Randle leaves meat on the bone too.

Fact: You can feed thousands of starving kids in Africa with the amount of meat Randle has left on the bone in second halves this year.

Fact: Many of us were never fooled by this Scatback By Committee facade.

How did this turn into a Randle debate? lol

Bleu Star said:

Man. Y'all need to lay off of my boy Tulious.

Fact: Randle is a change of pace scatback.

Fact: The front office tried to make him a pace setter.

Fact: Randle leaves meat on the bone too.

Fact: You can feed thousands of starving kids in Africa with the amount of meat Randle has left on the bone in second halves this year.

Fact: Many of us were never fooled by this Scatback By Committee facade.

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Hey Sorry bro it popped into my head... I know you're trying to leave that part of your life behind.. haha

NeonDeion21 said:

How did this turn into a Randle debate? lol

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Pointed out something in the GIF... Sorry my bad.... lol

NeonDeion21 said:

How did this turn into a Randle debate? lol

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That play that is shown in the Gif in your OP was debated before in terms of Randle. The blogger Muth might have used that play in one of his articles.

Good article, but you missed on the arm length issue. Leary's arm length is 34-3/4" compared to 33-1/4" for Collins. Obviously, Collins is taller 6044 vs 6027.

Arm Length is probably what has allowed Leary to function as a pass blocker against guys like JJWatt despite Leary's limited foot quickness. Leary's lunging is probably due to limited foot quickness.

Collins is just much more athletic than Leary while still being very powerful. He also has really good balance. As you pointed out, he does not tend to get overextended.

It will be good to see Collins progress due to his very high upside; however, I had hoped that the Cowboys might be able to get something for Leary after this season. He will be a restricted FA and they can put a 2nd round tender on him. If he had been tendered after the 2014 season I think another team might have consider giving up a 2nd to sign him, but that won't happen if he rides the bench this season.

The other thing I thought might happen was that they would eventually give Collins a shot at RT if Leary was keeping Collins on the bench at LG.

xwalker said:

I've watched the play from 3 different angles and I've seen it in slow motion. There is no certainty that it would have been better if he stayed tight to Fred's block. It might have worked, but he also might have gained less yards depending on how fast Fred's defender get back over. He does get back over, it's just a matter of how fast he could get there. He would have been going over and back if Randle followed that path and not straight over as he actually did in when Randle when right. Randle would have had to stay tight to Fred's block, otherwise the defender that was cut blocked would have been a problem.
http://i394.***BLOCKED***/albums/pp26/xwalker20000/randle-falcons2_zpse7lbxpjn.jpg

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It would've been close.. The point I am trying to make is he doesn't follow the design of the play where as a Murray would and that made the chemistry with the oline really good. Look at the play where Randle almost fumbled the ball in the end zone. He didn't have to leap the hole was to the left.

CowboyStar88 said:

It would've been close.. The point I am trying to make is he doesn't follow the design of the play where as a Murray would and that made the chemistry with the oline really good. Look at the play where Randle almost fumbled the ball in the end zone. He didn't have to leap the hole was to the left.

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Randle has made a few mistakes, but this play is not a great example of it. There is no guarantee that Murray would have done it differently and there is no guarantee that the results would have been better if either of them had run it tight to the left of Fred's block.

Jumping the pile on the TD was stupid regardless of whether there was a hole or not. It was 1st down. If it was a 4th down play then it's obviously worth doing whatever it takes to score, but on 1st down it's stupid.

Randle has made some big plays that probably wouldn't have been big plays by Murray.

The bottom line is that the blocking has not been anywhere close to what it was last year. Add to that the fact that defenses are loading up against the run because Romo and Dez are out. Hopefully the blocking improves with the injured Leary being replaced by Collins who now has had time to review his 1 start and likely improve on it. Martin seemed to look more like himself in the Pats games. He really struggled at the beginning of the season due to issue related to the injury that caused him to miss most of the preseason. Free is always a liability in run blocking so they can't afford to have both Guards struggling especially when defenses are loading up against the run.

Also, Hanna was a big part of the run blocking success last season and he has been out of limited this season. Hopefully, he is 100% after the bye.

On a final note, the 2015 version of Murray is unlikely to be the same as the 2014 version even if he had stayed. The history of RBs with over 370 carries in a season in terrible for the following season and many of them never recovered to be a quality lead RB again. Couple that with the stats that show RBs start to decline at age 27 which is Murray's age, and the probability of him being anywhere close to what he was last season is low.

CowboyStar88 said:

Looking at this play if Randle follows the design of the play it's going for some good yards. I think this is a huge frustration for the coaching staff. I'm sure the Oline is frustrated as well even though we don't hear about it. I would point to a play like the one above and say this line can't get any continuity with the RB because the RB doesn't allow it he free lances too much. In my opinion this is where Murray was so good, and the line clicked because they knew he would follow the play and he would setup his blockers.

If Collins continues to play like that and CMike is everything we hope he is mane we can get back to the ground n pound of last year.

IMO this play is a the staple of why the Run game isn't working. Well with Randle. Let's hope this changes

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Yes I've been saying that about Randle. But for some reason people give him a pass and think that most of our problems quell from the oline. I don't think its that case. Its mostly Randle being a scrub and not being able to run the ball like Murray. He can't break tackles and dances too much in the backfield - which allows defenders to converge on him almost instantly.

All that Dallas needed to do was get a runner with Murray's qualities - who can hit the hole hard and not have to dance around in the backfield. But that was a complete failure this offseason. Now our hope rests on CMike. I think he's more than able to do the job and hope that things would work out. Randle just doesn't cut it anymore.

xwalker said:

That play that is shown in the Gif in your OP was debated before in terms of Randle. The blogger Muth might have used that play in one of his articles.

Good article, but you missed on the arm length issue. Leary's arm length is 34-3/4" compared to 33-1/4" for Collins. Obviously, Collins is taller 6044 vs 6027.

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I was talking more about wingspan. Collins has an 82" wingspan while Leary's is about 81", according to one of their scouts. Although, Leary's listed wingspan is 83".

xwalker said:

Zone runs are not designed for a specific hole. The RB should "read" Fred's block. If Fred's man is on his right and closing down that side, then the RB should cut back. The question on this run is if Randle should have stayed tight to Fred's left shoulder or if he should have gone far right which is what happened.

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Oh good that's how I understood it, I felt he might have had it outside if he tried to get around Free's outside shoulder but the best option was what you said, stay tight to Fred's left then follow Collins' block.