Martin contract getting closer but not official until contract details are released

L-O-Jete · Jun 12, 2018

Risen Star said:
Yeah I always get a laugh at fans celebrating a huge contract. Like they're proud of it.

I dont mean retaining the player. Thats understandable but paying the player big money. They love it. Even though every dollar he gets effects the team.

I hope Martin's agent makes some sort of error and he's contractually committed to the Cowboys for the rest of his career at a number people laugh at. I want a pissed off NFLPA wondering how this happened.

It's about the logo and laundry. Never the player.

Go ~~Zack Martin~~ Cowboys.

You really need to learn the difference between "effect" and "affect"...

kento40 · Jun 12, 2018

phildadon86 said:
We were middle of the pack last year in sacks, and our secondary is young talented and up and coming. Our defense is far from bargain basement. You are the one who doesnt get it. In 5 years when we are paying Chido, Jourdan, LVE, Jaylon, and Woods huge contracts you are going to be complaining.

Up and coming means one thing, they haven't proved jack crap yet and may never prove anything. I remember when Mo was up and coming, how Byron Jones is still up and coming, those were our high picks. So I'm supposed to believe these middle of the pack hope and prayers are supposed to make our D elite? Hey man keep waving the company flag and believing in that pipe dream that's brought us 21 years of mediocrity, while the other teams are building real defenses to blow through our elite O-line and intercept our "elite" QB.

phildadon86 · Jun 12, 2018

kento40 said:
Up and coming means one thing, they haven't proved jack crap yet and may never prove anything. I remember when Mo was up and coming, how Byron Jones is still up and coming, those were our high picks. So I'm supposed to believe these middle of the pack hope and prayers are supposed to make our D elite? Hey man keep waving the company flag and believing in that pipe dream that's brought us 21 years of mediocrity, while the other teams are building real defenses to blow through our elite O-line and intercept our "elite" QB.

Ummm. Until we lost Zeke that OLine had us at 5-3. And Chido/Lewis/Woods compare to Mo is a joke of a comparison.

Ccijcladac · Jun 12, 2018

phildadon86 said:
So now Martin isn’t the best guard in the league? Even though he’s rated as such by his peers? Ok cool. Let me take your word for it. Since you know. You know football better than NFL players and the AP.

Regarding our secondary. Awuzie has one of if not the best completion percentages against last season. Lewis held his own and looked very good at times. Woods looked phenomenal at times last year. We just spent a 19 overall on LB. smith is apparently turning a lot of heads so far this offseason and we know who Sean Lee is. Our DL is our worst position on defence and I don’t think it’s as bad as many here think. I’ll give you that one though. So far though. It looks like you’re the delusional one and not me. Regardless if I am homer or not. I like where our defence is going. And where its trending. All I was saying is you’re making it seem like because we aren’t spending money on it that it’s going to be horrible. We’ve invested a ton of draft capital into it. So let’s see where that takes us. You don’t seem like the type of person to come on here and admit you were wrong though so it is what it is.

Perception is not always reality & in this case ur perception of me is just really that,what u perceive me to be. Nothing could be further from"reality." The reality is I definitely will admit to when I'm wrong, I may even say I'm wrong when I'm right if I "perceive" the situation to be non- beneficial to me& it will eliminate me from stress etc,etc. I.e Wife, girlfriend,Mother, sister, family members or friends.

I don't want to insinuate that I dislike Martin or I don't think Martin is a good player because that's not how I truly feel. I just don't think & nor does publications that rate players that i've read think that Martin is the best OG in the NFL& especially not last year. Ur homerism is the only reason why u think he is

Lastly I didn't speak about Linebackers, although I don't think our linebacking group is the best either. Sure they have potential but potential has never won a game let alone a championship. I don't know what games u watched last year but I watched all of them& attended 4 of them. I never seen Woods look phenomenal & Awuzie was hurt& dinged up.for the better part of the season. This idea that he's somehow elite towards the end of the season is blue& silver colored glassed viewed & that's ok but as I said all the secondaries in our division are either better or " perceived to be better so here we go again with our " perception" of who's being delusional & whom is not. Everything & everybody sounds so great to u& we're so elite@ every stop but yet we don't sniff the playoffs & we had no major injuries. You tell me who's the delusional one:;'-))

Nightman · Jun 12, 2018

J12B said:
You're way has been the approach the FO has taken for the last 20 years. They've finally seen it's the wrong way, with zero superbowls and 2 playoff wins as proof.

Also, you need to learn about cap hits. They rarely correlate with the way players are actually paid. This isn't T-Mobile

You are new here ..... that is cute

phildadon86 · Jun 12, 2018

Ccijcladac said:
Perception is not always reality & in this case ur perception of me is just really that,what u perceive me to be. Nothing could be further from"reality." The reality is I definitely will admit to when I'm wrong, I may even say I'm wrong when I'm right if I "perceive" the situation to be non- beneficial to me& it will eliminate me from stress etc,etc. I.e Wife, girlfriend,Mother, sister, family members or friends.

I don't want to insinuate that I dislike Martin or I don't think Martin is a good player because that's not how I truly feel. I just don't think & nor does publications that rate players that i've read think that Martin is the best OG in the NFL& especially not last year. Ur homerism is the only reason why u think he is

Lastly I didn't speak about Linebackers, although I don't think our linebacking group is the best either. Sure they have potential but potential has never won a game let alone a championship. I don't know what games u watched last year but I watched all of them& attended 4 of them. I never seen Woods look phenomenal & Awuzie was hurt& dinged up.for the better part of the season. This idea that he's somehow elite towards the end of the season is blue& silver colored glassed viewed & that's ok but as I said all the secondaries in our division are either better or " perceived to be better so here we go again with our " perception" of who's being delusional & whom is not. Everything & everybody sounds so great to u& we're so elite@ every stop but yet we don't sniff the playoffs & we had no major injuries. You tell me who's the delusional one:;'-))

Interesting take. You attended 4 games? Thats awesome congratulations. You seem like the typical Cowboys fan who wont admit good things when they happen because we arent used to them.

Awuzie had one of the lowest completion percentages against him when thrown to out of all rookies last year. He isnt that good though you're right. Lewis made mistakes but looked damn good most of the time, and Woods was played out of position, a lot, and still managed an INT. Jeeze it took Byron almost 3 years for his first. I may be a homer, but I am also anticipating the secondary to grow and look much better this year with time under their belts. Publications dont rate Martin the best G in football? I actually want to see some proof of that. You seem pretty confident so it shouldnt be to difficult for you to prove. He was just rated the best G in football by his own peers in the NFL top 100 in 2016. So I really dont know where you are trying to go with this. He had a down year? Pretty sure our entire team did, including the coaching, mostly the coaching actually.

What bothers me most about this, is youre all upset about paying the man. In 2 years he wont be the highest paid and it wont even be a bad deal. LOL.

408Cowboy · Jun 12, 2018

Nightman said:
You are new here ..... that is cute

J12B · Jun 12, 2018

Nightman said:
You are new here ..... that is cute

Amount of time on this forum does not equate to credibility/knowledge. You're a prime example of this

Nightman · Jun 12, 2018

J12B said:
Amount of time on this forum does not equate to credibility/knowledge. You're a prime example of this

Yeah right

Everything you said shows you have a Kindergarten understanding of the cap and contracts

@ksg811 already taught you a lesson but here you are doubling down on your ignorance

People try to take me down every day but no one ever does

J12B · Jun 12, 2018

Nightman said:
Yeah right

Everything you said shows you have a Kindergarten understanding of the cap and contracts

Keg already taught you a lesson but here you are doubling down on your ignorance

People try to take me down every day but no one ever does

You just don't get it. I'm taking cap hits and contact structure. You're way of thinking is to give players a low cap hit and just kick the can further down the road. This results in greater cap issues in future years.

Not sure how I can make it any more simple for you.

Nightman · Jun 12, 2018

J12B said:
You just don't get it. I'm taking cap hits and contact structure. You're way of thinking is to give players a low cap hit and just kick the can further down the road. This results in greater cap issues in future years.

Not sure how I can make it any more simple for you.

No one does it your way

No one prepays athletes....you can't recover the money on retirements or suspensions and it takes away the incentive to work harder

Paying more on the cap when it is lower is moronic and no one does it.......almost 95% of contracts have large Signing Bonuses that are pro-rated

Players don't like having tiny contracts late in the deal with no guarantees......they would rather be cut and set free.... their egos and agents always get involved

You take away all flexiiblty by overpaying early..... you handicap yourself against trades and injuries ....it is 100x better to have the cap space and not need it than to need it and not have it

Rollover kills your argument dead.......if you don't spend it then you add it next year's total...... no worries

You are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist......extending ZMartin will create 3-4m in Cap Space that can be used to get an EThomas or just for insurance that will be rolled over

My way has cap hits of 6m, 8m and 18m
Yours has hits of 18m, 16m and 16m

If you spend 1/2 the 12m you save this year and roll over the other 6m then you have a net hit of 2m next year compared to 16m your way

Then you spend 1/2 and rollover the other 7m and year 3 I have a 11m cap hit and you still have a 16m cap hit.

If I cut the player year 4 then his saved salary more than makes up for any DeadMoney......it is huge net gain and the cap went up by 40m anyways.......Winner Winner

J12B · Jun 12, 2018

I'll just say this one last time...look at Garropolo's deal. And yes they had a ton of cap space, but Dallas has room to structure the deal similarly.

And again, perfect example of not being cap responsible by signing ET with the newly created cap space. Eventually, we have to pay them the big bucks and that's when 2-14 seasons occur due to a lack of talent from no cap space.

Players are getting paid their guaranteed money regardless. I couldn't care less how and when the actually get paid. I care how their cap hits are structured.

Nightman · Jun 12, 2018

J12B said:
I'll just say this one last time...look at Garropolo's deal. And yes they had a ton of cap space, but Dallas has room to structure the deal similarly.

And again, perfect example of not being cap responsible by signing ET with the newly created cap space. Eventually, we have to pay them the big bucks and that's when 2-14 seasons occur due to a lack of talent from no cap space.

Players are getting paid their guaranteed money regardless. I couldn't care less how and when the actually get paid. I care how their cap hits are structured.

SF had 100m in cap space

Just stop

J12B · Jun 12, 2018

Also your example of cap hits is obviously

Nightman said:
SF had 100m in cap space

Just stop

So why didn't they just roll it over?

Because they have to take the cap hits at some point, and decided it best when they had the cap space available.

And it was actually approximately 70 million in cap space...just off about 30 million

ksg811 · Jun 12, 2018

J12B said:
I'll just say this one last time...look at Garropolo's deal. And yes they had a ton of cap space, but Dallas has room to structure the deal similarly.

And again, perfect example of not being cap responsible by signing ET with the newly created cap space. Eventually, we have to pay them the big bucks and that's when 2-14 seasons occur due to a lack of talent from no cap space.

Players are getting paid their guaranteed money regardless. I couldn't care less how and when the actually get paid. I care how their cap hits are structured.

You're creating a narrative that isn't there and isn't true. SF structured his contract that way because they have no idea how legitimate of a QB he is. It allows them to get out of the deal after one year if he flames out and turns out to be a fraud. The structure is for risk management, not cap management.

FuzzyLumpkins · Jun 12, 2018

J12B said:
You just don't get it. I'm taking cap hits and contact structure. You're way of thinking is to give players a low cap hit and just kick the can further down the road. This results in greater cap issues in future years.

Not sure how I can make it any more simple for you.

You certainly made it simple for yourself. What I think is adorable is you think household finance memes are relevant for cap management.

In a deflationary interest free environment it is more efficient to push costs to future years. That is as simple as I can make it but I am guessing it will be beyond your scope.

J12B · Jun 12, 2018

ksg811 said:
You're creating a narrative that isn't there and isn't true. SF structured his contract that way because they have no idea how legitimate of a QB he is. It allows them to get out of the deal after one year if he flames out and turns out to be a fraud. The structure is for risk management, not cap management.

SF can get out of the deal after the 2nd year. 13 million in dead money if he is released after this year.

He also only has a cap hit of 20 million in the second year. And its structured for the best interest of both cap management and risk management

J12B · Jun 12, 2018

FuzzyLumpkins said:
You certainly made it simple for yourself. What I think is adorable is you think household finance memes are relevant for cap management.

In a deflationary interest free environment it is more efficient to push costs to future years. That is as simple as I can make it but I am guessing it will be beyond your scope.

Explain Garropolo's deal. Case and point

You were also probably for all the restructures that took place over the years like Ceawford and Witten which only handcuffed the FO from releasing them because it would've cost more to do so than actually keep them

FuzzyLumpkins · Jun 12, 2018

J12B said:
Look at Garropolo's deal. Case and point

You have already been addressed on that point.

i will add that pointing to his contract is not an argument other than to say some teams have not worked to push costs to future years' books.

You in no way have shown how or why that is beneficial. You have not even shown the reasoning behind that move; although it is amusing how ignorant you were. You really just wave your hands a lot. It's almost as adorable as thinking household finance memes apply in this case.

I was right to figure you wouldn't understand that point about the nature of the NFL labor demand market.

FuzzyLumpkins · Jun 12, 2018

J12B said:
SF can get out of the deal after the 2nd year. 13 million in dead money if he is released after this year.

He also only has a cap hit of 20 million in the second year. And its structured for the best interest of both cap management and risk management

So? There is also June 1 if the proverbial **** hits the fan.

What is obvious is that you had zero clue why they structured that that way.

You want to discuss the deflationary, interest free mechanic of pushing costs to future years or just stay ignorant?

Martin contract getting closer but not official until contract details are released

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