105.3 has upset me: Emmitt vs Barry

[DFWJC]

We never saw Barry get old either. I think that hurts Emmitt a little. Especially in the YPC department.

Yep, father time always wins.

But, fwiw, Emmitt only had 1 season out 15 years where he averaged 5 yards per carry or more.
He was amazing anyway.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

For my two cents, this sums it up the best.

Barry was more naturally gifted - no argument there. Emmitt was the better multi-purpose, three-down back.

And this does not apply only to the Barry vs. Emmitt debate but to other comparisons. Gale Sayers was the better runner and more electrifying with incredible moves and sprinter speed; Walter Payton was the better back. Eric Dickerson could run inside and outside, was graceful and fast; Payton was the better back. Tony Dorsett had the best acceleration of any back I've seen (I even think he hit the hole and first five yards past the line better than Bo Jackson) and was a thing of beauty to watch; Payton was the better back.

Barry was sheer electricity, a highlight reel in pads. Emmitt ran harder and better between the tackles, was better in short yardage and goal line situations, and was probably the best back at consistent blitz pick-up I've seen who was not named Walter Payton. I love Barry. But Emmitt, like Payton, had the heart of a lion.

Barry had incredible numbers but his career YPC was not "diluted" by diminished production had he played into his 11th, 12th or 13th season when his 4.4 speed would be 4.5 or a hick-up slower.

Most of the experts will rate Barry above Emmitt and in the top 3 all-time. That's ok. Give me Emmitt. He and Michael were the heart of those great 90s champions. I'll take Emmitt and his rings.

Only 5 players in the entire history of the sport carried the ball more than Sanders, so it's pretty silly to say his numbers were good because he didn't age. He played until 30, which is ancient for a back. Imagine Zeke putting up the season he just had 9 more times, and that's what you have with Barry.
The season after his age 26 season, Emmitt averaged 3.7 yards per carry and his yards per carry from that point on was less than 4. Sanders averaged 5.1 yards per carry from age 27-30.

 

[dallasdave]

 

[jrumann59]

Barry Sanders did have over 30 carries a year for negative yards.

I finally looked it up.

About 1 out of every 10 carries he had went for negative yards.

HOWEVER
That means 9 out 10 times he carried the ball, he made yardage....and those carries averaged a outerworldly 5.9 yards per carry for 10 years!!

Again...
So 9 out of 10 times he touched the ball, the team made yardage averaging 5.9 yards.
Massive offensive weapon.

That comment has nothing to do with or distract from our Emmitt...who was amazing.

I'm just sick of these tall tales of Sanders losing yardage every other carry.
Thats bs.

Massive offensive Weapon is an over statement. He was a chunk back not uncommon to see him at 10 carries for 20 yards then rip off a 50 harder then back to 2-3 yard avg after that. He was a liability to there offense because he was not a consistent 3-4 yards per carry regardless of his ypc avg.

 

[MichaelValentino]

Only 5 players in the entire history of the sport carried the ball more than Sanders, so it's pretty silly to say his numbers were good because he didn't age. He played until 30, which is ancient for a back. Imagine Zeke putting up the season he just had 9 more times, and that's what you have with Barry.
The season after his age 26 season, Emmitt averaged 3.7 yards per carry and his yards per carry from that point on was less than 4. Sanders averaged 5.1 yards per carry from age 27-30.

Nothing like misrepresenting what someone says.

Barry Sanders, in his 10th season, average 4.3 ypc, tied for the lowest of his career. The year before, at age 29, he averaged an almost unheard of 6.1 ypc. My point was - and I thought I was clear enough - that had he played beyond 10 seasons, up until age 33 or 34, it's almost certain, and entirely plausible, that his numbers would've dropped. Indeed, that's the very argument many used here a couple of years ago when there was so much talk of going after Adrian Peterson - i.e., RBs' performance drops after age 30.

FWIW, I have Sanders as a top 5 all-time RB. He was one of the greatest breakaway backs ever and he was even more elusive than Gale Sayers. He was a better pure runner than Emmitt, but so were Sayers, Dickerson, Peterson and Dorsett. However, Emmitt could do it all, and in that regard was comparable to Payton.

Please don't twist my words. I try to be very cordial and unambiguous on this forum and I don't misrepresent people. And I engage in a lot of internet dialogue related to climate change, politics, religion and theology. I try never to misquote or misrepresent competing viewpoints, nor do I set up strawmen.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Nothing like misrepresenting what someone says.

Barry Sanders, in his 10th season, average 4.3 ypc, tied for the lowest of his career. The year before, at age 29, he averaged an almost unheard of 6.1 ypc. My point was - and I thought I was clear enough - that had he played beyond 10 seasons, up until age 33 or 34, it's almost certain, and entirely plausible, that his numbers would've dropped. Indeed, that's the very argument many used here a couple of years ago when there was so much talk of going after Adrian Peterson - i.e., RBs' performance drops after age 30.

FWIW, I have Sanders as a top 5 all-time RB. He was one of the greatest breakaway backs ever and he was even more elusive than Gale Sayers. He was a better pure runner than Emmitt, but so were Sayers, Dickerson, Peterson and Dorsett. However, Emmitt could do it all, and in that regard was comparable to Payton.

Please don't twist my words. I try to be very cordial and unambiguous on this forum and I don't misrepresent people. And I engage in a lot of internet dialogue related to climate change, politics, religion and theology. I try never to misquote or misrepresent competing viewpoints, nor do I set up strawmen.

lol, nobody is twisting your words. You're a nobody to me... I respond to the post.
That is exactly what you said. You can play the semantics game all you want. The problem with your lousy argument is that if you add 3 or 4 years of Barry averaging a declining YPC then he is still going to end up with 20,000 yards. Now no one is having this conversation.
Conversely, if you remove the end of Emmitt's career where he was hanging on and dragging down his YPC, then Emmitt is no longer the leading rusher of all-time. Now no one is having this conversation.

 

[DFWJC]

Massive offensive Weapon is an over statement. He was a chunk back not uncommon to see him at 10 carries for 20 yards then rip off a 50 harder then back to 2-3 yard avg after that. He was a liability to there offense because he was not a consistent 3-4 yards per carry regardless of his ypc avg.

That is astronomically absurd
All-world level silly

imo, of course.

Look, we are so far apart on this particular topic it's not worth our time to even debate it.

At least we both think Emmitt was great...so we have that in common.

 

[MichaelValentino]

lol, nobody is twisting your words. You're a nobody to me... I respond to the post.
That is exactly what you said. You can play the semantics game all you want. The problem with your lousy argument is that if you add 3 or 4 years of Barry averaging a declining YPC then he is still going to end up with 20,000 yards. Now no one is having this conversation.
Conversely, if you remove the end of Emmitt's career where he was hanging on and dragging down his YPC, then Emmitt is no longer the leading rusher of all-time. Now no one is having this conversation.

This is what I said: Barry had incredible numbers but his career YPC was not "diluted" by diminished production had he played into his 11th, 12th or 13th season when his 4.4 speed would be 4.5 or a hick-up slower.

Your initial response and your response to my response missed that point.

I nowhere said Sanders would not be the rushing leader today if he stayed around 3-4 more years - barring injury, he certainly would have. Jim Brown might be the rusher leader if he played longer instead of quitting after 9 seasons. Sanders' amazing career YPC would have suffered, as would have Brown's (5.2) had they played longer - that was my point, but you were unable to grasp that.

In any event, I'm done talking to you. You're not worth my time.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

This is what I said: Barry had incredible numbers but his career YPC was not "diluted" by diminished production had he played into his 11th, 12th or 13th season when his 4.4 speed would be 4.5 or a hick-up slower.

Your initial response and your response to my response missed that point.

I nowhere said Sanders would not be the rushing leader today if he stayed around 3-4 more years - barring injury, he certainly would have. Jim Brown might be the rusher leader if he played longer instead of quitting after 9 seasons. Sanders' amazing career YPC would have suffered, as would have Brown's (5.2) had they played longer - that was my point, but you were unable to grasp that.

In any event, I'm done talking to you. You're not worth my time.

In a thread of Barry vs. Emmitt you introduced the idea that Barry's YPC was not diluted (duh)... for what? It is not some profound discovery. Of course it would have (probably) been diluted as time went on. You were clearly trying to use it as some lame talking point as to why Emmitt was better and you were summarily dismissed. Back under the rock you go.

 

[Idgit]

That is astronomically absurd
All-world level silly

imo, of course.

Look, we are so far apart on this particular topic it's not worth our time to even debate it.

At least we both think Emmitt was great...so we have that in common.

Sanders was an all-time great, no doubt, and not a liability. I understand what he's saying, though, in that he did kill drives at times with inconsistent runs. A 2nd and 7 that could have been a third and 3-4 becoming 3rd and 10 is a big deal. And Sanders did that a lot more often than Emmitt did. You get, what, 12 possessions a game? Put the team behind the 8-ball on just two of them and it hurts your chances for winning more than most people realize. Sure, Emmitt might not have broken off that 20 yard run after dancing in the backfield on a given week, but if he moved the chains by getting 3 yards when 3 yards were blocked for, and the team kept the drive going and scored as a result, that's better production. What shows up on Sportscenter, though, is the 20 yard runs.

 

[perrykemp]

We never saw Barry get old either. I think that hurts Emmitt a little. Especially in the YPC department.

Twice in his 20's Emmitt averaged less than 4 yards per carry -- his rookie year (1990): 3.9 ypc AND 1996: 3.7 ypc.

Emmitt ranks 135th in NFL history in rushing productivity per carry at 4.2 yards per carry.

 

[perrykemp]

He was a liability to there offense because he was not a consistent 3-4 yards per carry regardless of his ypc avg.

Other than the goalline, Barry Sanders was never a liability.

 

[eyedoc]

So I'm listening to 105.3 the fan and they say that Barry is better than Emmitt and it's not debatable for anyone outside of the metroplex and then 2 seconds later they say Jerry Rice is better than Randy Moss and it's not debatable.


To me... Emmitt and Jerry are the same. Jerry and Emmitt both weren't the biggest, strongest, or fastest but they were warriors who got it done in the biggest moments and have titles and all kinds of records to show for it.


Barry and Randy share the same thing. Immense physical ability and nothing to show for it. Heck... I would take a young Adrian Peterson over Barry Sanders.

I just don't understand though how you can just not apply the same rules to Jerry Rice as you do Emmitt smith when they are basically the same player at different positions.

I remember the New York Giants playoff game where he played 2 and one half quarters with a separated shoulder. I have never seen more grit from a running back than Emmitt in that game. He singlehanded put his team on his back and would not come out of the game. My money would be on Emmitt. Go Cowboys

 

[CATCH17]

I remember the New York Giants playoff game where he played 2 and one half quarters with a separated shoulder. I have never seen more grit from a running back than Emmitt in that game. He singlehanded put his team on his back and would not come out of the game. My money would be on Emmitt. Go Cowboys

Exactly man.


Emmitt was a warrior.

 

[CowboysGirl123]

Can you get over this Smith and Sanders debate? It is just a opinion, you all do not need to be pissed about it, we should be grateful that Emmitt played for the Cowboys and that is all that matters

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Not to get into the whole Barry vs Emmitt debate, but I do agree with your point about how people discredit Emmitt for his longevity and surrounding team while praising Jerry Rice for having the same benefits throughout his career. The guy had two of the best QBs of all time throwing to him. That defeats the whole "name Emmitt's offensive line" argument. I do think Barry and Randy are fair comparisons too. I think Randy was probably the most talented ever but had too many ups and downs throughout his career to be considered the GOAT.

 

[DejectedFan1996]

Ha! That shouldn't come as a big surprise. I bet Lion fans think Sanders was better!

Take this debate anywhere outside a Cowboys forum and everyone would agree Barry is better.

 

[Jack Burton]

Only 5 players in the entire history of the sport carried the ball more than Sanders, so it's pretty silly to say his numbers were good because he didn't age. He played until 30, which is ancient for a back. Imagine Zeke putting up the season he just had 9 more times, and that's what you have with Barry.
The season after his age 26 season, Emmitt averaged 3.7 yards per carry and his yards per carry from that point on was less than 4. Sanders averaged 5.1 yards per carry from age 27-30.

Emmitt played hurt the year (96) he averaged 3.7 yards per carry. That neck injury was scary. The following four seasons he bounced back with per carry averages of 4.1, 4.2, 4.2, and 4.1. It wasn't until the 2001 season at age 32 that his average dipped down to 3.9. It fell to 3.8 at age 33 the following year, and then dropped all the way down to 2.8 at age 34 during his first year with the Cardinals, which he missed most of due to our very own Roy Williams welcoming him back to Texas. In typical Emmitt fashion though, he bounced back once again at the age of 35, rushing for 937 yards, a 3.5 average, and 9 touchdowns.

So was Emmitt washed up and floundering through season after season of below 4 average yards per carry after the age of 26, as was implied? Far from it. He was still plugging and chugging along, collecting yardage and touchdowns on the way to becoming the NFL's all time leader in rushing yardage and touchdowns.

Was his per carry average as good as Barry's? No, of course it wasn't. But consider this. One thing people don't factor in to the average yards per carry equation, is how many short yardage carries did Barry get versus how many did Emmitt get? I don't know if that stat can even be looked up. But it is common knowledge that Barry was not a goal-line or short yardage situation back, therefore, I'd bet almost anything that Emmitt had a lot more short yardage situational carries than Barry did. Rushing for 2 yards on third and one moves the chains, and scoring a 1 yard touchdown helps the team. But it doesn't really do much for a running back's average per carry.

I have no trouble at all admitting Barry's greatness. He was exciting and electric. I watched him tear it up at Oklahoma State, way before he became a human highlight reel for the NFL. But the fact is, no one will ever know what kind of player Barry would have been after the age of 30. At the age of 29, Sanders put up 2,053 yards with a per carry average of 6.1. Amazing numbers. The following season at age 30, his numbers fell to 1,491 and 4.3. Those are still good numbers, but the decline is noticeable. Sanders finished his career with 15,269 yards rushing. Would he have had enough juice left to pass Payton's 16,726 if he had played another season? Two seasons? And would he have been able to put up more yards than Emmitt's 18,355? No one knows due to his retirement. But considering the sharp plunge in production that running backs commonly go through after turning 30, I don't think Barry ending up the NFL's all time leading rusher is the sure bet that most people do.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I don't know too many people that would argue against Barry being the best back of all time....saying so doesn't negate what Emmitt did......what Barry has going for him is that he had a subpar supporting cast. Its the same argument that they used against Dak last year......

But fact is, Emmitt did play with not only Pro Bowlers but Hall of Famers....Barry didn't get that same luxury.

 

[CouchCoach]

Brown, Payton, Smith, Sanders, Dickerson or Simpson. I'll take any of those 6 and not look back. The only 2 that played in similar offenses and were asked to do the same thing were Payton and Smith. I don't see anyway to compare the position and to pick the "best" anymore than QB.

As far as a pure runner, I would take Dorsett over Emmitt. All around back, I'll take Emmitt.