2 Questions For the Zoners Who Want to Let Moore Go

[CowboyRoy]

That is a reason to not hang 30 on them but not a reason to not reach 20. If you are really a top tier offense you should at least look better than the Seahawks did last week or look better than the Dolphins backup QB. I get you are not going to look like Mahomes against that same defense but you cannot look outmatched if you are really a top offense. SImilarly the Bills claim to be a top defense but when they play a great offense in the playoffs they get dominated. If you want to be a great unit you had best not look horrible against other great units and the Cowboys offense looked horrible.

The funny part is that the one drive that the Cowboys were successful on was when they were rolling Dak out and using his legs to create plays either running or passing (a very Mahomes style and considering he hung 44 on them a good recipe to follow) and they just did not replicate it the rest of the game.

Ok agreed on the 20 part but with zeke at rb without pollard? Not sure now.

with pollard we were moving the ball, but dak blew it with picks. Then pollard went out. To me that was the end of the game.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Hammer meet nail

There is a clear dichotomy on this board and has been for a while

Those who will defend Dak no matter what and those who are tired of the charade and ready to move on

The ditch Moore crowd is simply a re alignment of the Dak Davidians. They realize the SF performance was indefensible. So now the mantra is "yes Dak played poorly but it's REALLY Kellen's fault". His system is impossible for any QB to succeed in. Get rid of him and Dak will be mahomes just wait and see

No, dak played poorly because it was the best d in football without pollard for half the game. On,y thin dak hasn’t been able todo is hang 20 or more on niners D with zeke at RB.

So it’s pretty obvious what has to happen.

 

[MS17]

simplified offense has been reported by our opponents what more can be done to help dak if the team can't execute that? serious

Add implementation of simplified dumbed down offense to "Project Help Dak" as follows:
QB whisperer (Kitna, etc.)
Replace OC
Sign Marquee vertical threat WRs
Extend McCarthy
Fortify OL
Draft middle tier QB

 

[CATCH17]

Hammer meet nail

There is a clear dichotomy on this board and has been for a while

Those who will defend Dak no matter what and those who are tired of the charade and ready to move on

The ditch Moore crowd is simply a re alignment of the Dak Davidians. They realize the SF performance was indefensible. So now the mantra is "yes Dak played poorly but it's REALLY Kellen's fault". His system is impossible for any QB to succeed in. Get rid of him and Dak will be mahomes just wait and see

Like this for example.. Zeke is in space with a defender 1 on 1 that he can likely truck…

What does Dak do?

 

[75boyz]

If you can change the QB and not cost yourself a massive cap blow, then lets look at options, you cant though unless something very wierd happens like Dak decides to void his contract. Moving on from Dak this year in 99.9999% of all scenarios is comming with a firesale of players because you can not pay everyone and take that massive hit all at once.

Then options it is for me bro. And again, I see your enhance the defense even more perspective.

For me personally, Im at draft one, send Sleepy Number to the bench and force him to change out his no trade clause for '24.

Creatively eat/absorb whatever part of the contract that's negotiable with the buyer for his '24 cap hit.

They will not go any further with this guy. Something has to be done sooner rather than later imo.

As I said in my opinion it's just throwing away 2 whole years if something isn't done.
At the very least TRY and minimize it to one.

 

[DallasEast]

lol

My 2 questions to the legion of Zoners who want to ditch Moore are:
1. Given Dak's liabilities, what exactly do you think a new OC will realistically accomplish that Moore hasn't already accomplished?

Kellen Moore has a good offensive mind. He is a good coach for establishing good-to-excellent player execution in favorable situations.

Not sure why this is necessary but okay. Moore is not a wunderkind. If he were, Frank Reich would not be the new head coach of the Carolina Panthers. Moore would be. Why not? Probably because the Panthers' front office came to realize upon one-on-one personal scrutiny in the interview process that Moore is only a good coach able to establish good-to-excellent player execution in favorable situations.

"Given Dak's liabilities." Put all the blame on Prescott. It's old. What is also relevant is opposing defensive players continually squawking that Dallas' offense is predictable. That translates as defensive coordinators making routine adjustments to counter what Dallas is doing offensively because the Cowboys offensive scheme is repetitive.

Moore is not the only "good coach who can establish good-to-excellent player execution in favorable situations." A logical coaching search will net another Kellen Moore. He is not irreplaceable. What would be more impressive is if an extensive search was conducted with due diligence. The possibility of landing an upgrade to Moore, a coach capable of consistently adjusting his scheme according to what the defense is doing in-game, would be greatly enhanced. Whether Jerry Jones has that in him is the real question since he cannot leave such decisions solely in the hands of his head coach.

The sport has been around almost four times longer than Moore has been alive. Good offense was not born when Moore popped into existence. It is a very realistic expectation that another offensive minded coach can match or even excel beyond what Moore has accomplished--with or without Prescott--IF they are qualified. Whether that change will result in more wins than Dallas has experienced with Moore as offensive coordinator is another question also.

2. Given how profilic Moore's offenses have been compared to those of other OC's, do you realize it's likely that any offense under a new OC
will be worse not better?

Dallas' offense can be just as prolific as Moore's or better. You do realize that the NFL has generated prolific offenses throughout its history, yes? Why should Dallas be bound to Moore for this shortsighted reasoning when a qualified professional coaching pool is not restricted solely to Moore? The man's coaching abilities are not even in Norv Turner's orbit. Turner's offense was not as "prolific" as Moore's. And Turner got fired during his career.

It is an impossible request but forget about Prescott for a second. What really makes Moore so special that he is an untouchable? In hindsight, I bet Carolina would really like to know that particular secret.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Hammer meet nail

There is a clear dichotomy on this board and has been for a while

Those who will defend Dak no matter what and those who are tired of the charade and ready to move on

The ditch Moore crowd is simply a re alignment of the Dak Davidians. They realize the SF performance was indefensible. So now the mantra is "yes Dak played poorly but it's REALLY Kellen's fault". His system is impossible for any QB to succeed in. Get rid of him and Dak will be mahomes just wait and see

Not really for most its the options you have, one option changes an OC and see's if that can help while the other option blows up this defense and basically calls for a rebuild in which some of us dont have high confidence that this FO will build another defense in the next 15 years. Im open to real solutions on changing your QB without blowing up a true top end defense we have not seen in klike 15 years... REAL options not fantasie land ones.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Then options it is for me bro. And again, I see your enhance the defense even more perspective.

For me personally, Im at draft one, send Sleepy Number to the bench and force him to change out his no trade clause for '24.

Creatively eat/absorb whatever part of the contract that's negotiable with the buyer for his '24 cap hit.

They will not go any further with this guy. Something has to be done sooner rather than later imo.

As I said in my opinion it's just throwing away 2 whole years if something isn't done.
At the very least TRY and minimize it to one.

Might as well cut him though because it at least takes that hit one time. Sitting him on the bench is the worst lever to pull in terms of ripping the band aid off.

 

[doomsday9084]

If you look, the Cowboys scoring dipped during the Rush games this year. That said, they went 4-1 against their toughest stretch of games all year.

Winning is more than just scoring points. This is what Parcells always got and why he doesn't like Moore. Doing things like controlling the ball and running the clock out win you games. I'll point to that long incompletion against Jacksonville. If that had just been a running play, Dallas probably wins that game and the butterfly effect may have left them playing a home game this weekend. If you look at the Rush games, the playcalling was more conservative and while it didn't pump up the score, it controlled the ball and won games.

Lots of random comments:
- Dallas' stats for the past few years have frequently included running up the score against weaker teams. This gets back to the above point. Where a Parcells team would just try to run the game out, Moore runs the score up.
- Beyond that, people just won't acknowledge how much the defense being #1 in turnovers the last two years has pumped up the offense just like they won't admit how much Dak being #1 in interceptions has hurt the defense.
- When the opponent has a good scheme against Dallas, Moore has nothing to adjust to. His simplistic offense doesn't have a "Plan B". This is why they have frequently laid eggs. Dallas has scored 17 or less 6 times in the past two years. KC has done it 3 times for example.
- Dak plays best as a bus driver. That was true year 1 and its true now. Moore is pushing him to be Mahomes or Burrow. While that may work against lesser teams, it doesn't against good defenses. Playing more aggressive isn't playing to Dak's strengths.

Replacing Moore will not automatically make the team better. I would go so far as to say that it will probably make the team worse as there are lots of bad OC's out there. That said, there is a real problem here that a lot of people have picked up on. It should be noted that Amare was likely dumped because he publicly had negative comments about the offense. Its not just outsiders that have an issue.

 

[Whyjerry]

It's sounds like you are blaming Moore for everything that goes wrong, and crediting Dak for everything that goes right. That's the part of this whole argument I don't buy.

It reads like you can’t read. I blame Jerry mostly. Moore sucks though.

 

[JBS]

It would have been better if Dak was the QB you believe He is . . . but reality is what it is

Can't get Filet from chopped liver

I don’t think he’s the guy. I know we are stuck w him. Try following along.

 

[darthseinfeld]

1. I don't really know. All I know is Dak is here because of his contract and Dak + Moore doesn't seem to work consistently.

2. Quite possible. But we know what we have now apparently isn't working. I am not afraid of change. And if anything, if the offense is worse, it exposes Dak and hopefully they don't extend him. My biggest fear is Dak is the issue and with Moore they do just enough to warrant Jerry and Stephen doubling down and handing over a bigger contract to Dak.

They should have fired Moore after 2021. Every phase of the offense collapsed in the 2nd half of the season. That was on him. If they do it now, they are a year behind.

With Prescott they need to eat his cap hit and re-evaluate him as a long term QB with another OC. Yes that really limits you in the offseason, but we are returning much of a roster that won 12 games this year.

 

[infamousstyles]

Middle of the pack over #1? Lol

We've been top or at the top the last couple of years and still have made dumb play calls when it matters. Being #1 is stats doesn't mean much in the playoffs when your getting bounced constantly.

 

[CowboyRoy]

We've been top or at the top the last couple of years and still have made dumb play calls when it matters. Being #1 is stats doesn't mean much in the playoffs when your getting bounced constantly.

Well…..it means little when you play the niners D. And with pollard on the bench that’s even more difficult.

it certainly helped against the bucs.

 

[CowboyFrog]

I don’t think he’s the guy. I know we are stuck w him. Try following along.

Its not hard to follow! 3 options, trade Dak (he has to agree and the other team will be paying alot of money), Cut him: your already over your cap hit and this will demand you release players and eat dead money for a couple years: restructure and change tthe scheme to help the defense while using your draft picks to add some pieces... I'm with you JBS, i dont love our options but i think there is a clear best option.

 

[75boyz]

I find it comical that Linehan's run first protect his rookie QB offense was enough at fault to run him outta town. And then his protégé succeeds him and is scorned for too much passing.
BUT then, and the real kicker, when this OC actually blends a near 50-50 run/pass play call ratio THAT is now being criticized.
Running too much was the problem at first. Then passing too much. And even now the balance of the 2 is too much so let's go full circle and get back to running too much.
Makes perfect Zone sense.
That's an oxymoron, lol

But if ya really think about it,
There might just be a problem with the guy "executing" all these passes and runs.
And NOT what plays are called.

 

[JBS]

It’s not hard to follow! 3 options, trade Dak (he has to agree and the other team will be paying alot of money), Cut him: your already over your cap hit and this will demand you release players and eat dead money for a couple years: restructure and change tthe scheme to help the defense while using your draft picks to add some pieces... I'm with you JBS, i dont love our options but i think there is a clear best option.

Not to mention that dumb and dumber would never consider the first two options.

 

[CowboyFrog]

I find it comical that Linehan's run first protect his rookie QB offense was at fault to run him outta town. And then his protégé succeeds him and is scorned for too much passing.
BUT then, and the real kicker, when this OC actually blends a near 50-50 run/pass play call ratio THAT is now being criticized.
Running too much was the problem at first. Then passing too much. And even now the balance of the 2 is too much so let's go full circle and get back to running too much.
Makes perfect Zone sense.
That's an oxymoron, lol

But if ya really think about it,
There might just be a problem with the guy "executing" all these passes and runs.
And NOT what plays are called.

I dont think his ratio is being criticized, i think his scheme is, Like it or not the OC/QB are tied at the hip and its no secret one is easier to replace than the other..... KM and Shannahan end the game with the same Run/Pass ratio, that does not mean they have the same run scheme or pass scheme.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

It reads like you can’t read. I blame Jerry mostly. Moore sucks though.

Very well thought out counter.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

I find it comical that Linehan's run first protect his rookie QB offense was enough at fault to run him outta town. And then his protégé succeeds him and is scorned for too much passing.
BUT then, and the real kicker, when this OC actually blends a near 50-50 run/pass play call ratio THAT is now being criticized.
Running too much was the problem at first. Then passing too much. And even now the balance of the 2 is too much so let's go full circle and get back to running too much.
Makes perfect Zone sense.
That's an oxymoron, lol

But if ya really think about it,
There might just be a problem with the guy "executing" all these passes and runs.
And NOT what plays are called.

Excellent post. Why some people refuse to consider the simple, obvious explanation I will never understand.