2 Questions For the Zoners Who Want to Let Moore Go

[DandyDon52]

For all the people who want to ditch Moore, help me understand. If you drop the Andy Dalton year, the last 3 years the Cowboys have been 4th,
1st and 6th in scoring. For those 3 years combined, the Cowboys are 2nd in scoring only behind KC.
The OC accomplished this with a QB that everyone but those completely in the tank for Dak agrees has fatal limitations, torpedoed
our post season this year with turnovers, and ended our post season last year with the stupidest in game decision I've seen since.....well ever.

Seems like the obvious problem is the QB not the OC, and if anything this OC has over achieved.

My 2 questions to the legion of Zoners who want to ditch Moore are:
1. Given Dak's liabilities, what exactly do you think a new OC will realistically accomplish that Moore hasn't already accomplished?
2. Given how profilic Moore's offenses have been compared to those of other OC's, do you realize it's likely that any offense under a new OC
will be worse not better?

OK first the
4th,
1st and 6th in scoring is meaningless, as they only put up 12 vs SF.
But to answer your question, getting rid of KM wont fix the offense, and a new OC, might be better, might be worse, or lol the same.
MM will still be here with his poor game/clock mgmt and his whacky end of game plays lol.
The only way to fix the offense is to get a new HC,OC, and all new at all offensive position coaches. And to seriously try to find a replacement for Dak.

Also would be nice to have a real GM and jerry to stop meddling in things , but that wont happen, and it does affect the offense.
Cooper gone wilson gone, zeke extended, dak big contract are all on jerry.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

The Cowboys offense reminds me a lot of the Bills defense. The Bills defense was number last year and number 2 this year and both times they were bumped from the playoffs because the defense looked horrible. A top defense should be able to perform when it counts. Similarly the Cowboys have a highly ranked offense but somehow have been bumped from the playoffs in back to back years because they cannot score points. In both situations I think that there is a clear problem that needs to be addressed.

Agree 100%. My post was directed at the people who are convinced the OC is the problem.

 

[Doomsay]

Great against poor to average defenses (= our schedule for the prior 2 years) awesome in garbage time, terrible against better defenses for the most part. Inability to make adjustments real-time. Dak needs more, unfortunately.

 

[BoysForLife]

Like this for example.. Zeke is in space with a defender 1 on 1 that he can likely truck…

What does Dak do?

He just doesn't see things that a 7th year starter should see easily

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

For all the people who want to ditch Moore, help me understand. If you drop the Andy Dalton year, the last 3 years the Cowboys have been 4th,
1st and 6th in scoring. For those 3 years combined, the Cowboys are 2nd in scoring only behind KC.
The OC accomplished this with a QB that everyone but those completely in the tank for Dak agrees has fatal limitations, torpedoed
our post season this year with turnovers, and ended our post season last year with the stupidest in game decision I've seen since.....well ever.

Seems like the obvious problem is the QB not the OC, and if anything this OC has over achieved.

My 2 questions to the legion of Zoners who want to ditch Moore are:
1. Given Dak's liabilities, what exactly do you think a new OC will realistically accomplish that Moore hasn't already accomplished?
2. Given how profilic Moore's offenses have been compared to those of other OC's, do you realize it's likely that any offense under a new OC
will be worse not better?

1. The issue is with how reads are made. Dak talked about it in his press conference after the last regular season game. Right now we are fusing WCO and Coryell. A new OC would simplify and normalize the read process by switching away from a hybrid scheme.

2. Maybe but the personnel is the same and while we may see a reduction in yards and maybe scores that is mitigated by the reduction in turnovers.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

This sounds like another word salad post. So this has been the #2 scoring offense in the entire league during the period I cited, but somehow you have deemed the route concepts as being a problem. OK.

So you think running 4 curl routes isn't a problem? Or using routes to help scheme receivers open? Just line up, run the same routes with no creativity and beat the guy in front of you......

Why do you think teams say how easy it is to defend Dallas offense? As far as scoring, that's because Dallas has really good players but look at the offense when Rush was QB. What happened, one of the worst in the league. Insert Dak and boom, offense was tops in the league.

Against Tampa in the playoffs, Moore was really good. Used motions and was creative. But against Washington the week before and the 49ers the week after, back to the same bland vanilla offense.

Seriously watch the routes being used by Moore and tell me that is great concepts by him

 

[BoyzBlaster]

No offense but that sounds like word salad. Can you give an example where Dak is being asked by the OC to make reads that are too complicated?

 

[BoyzBlaster]

So you think running 4 curl routes isn't a problem? Or using routes to help scheme receivers open? Just line up, run the same routes with no creativity and beat the guy in front of you......

Why do you think teams say how easy it is to defend Dallas offense? As far as scoring, that's because Dallas has really good players but look at the offense when Rush was QB. What happened, one of the worst in the league. Insert Dak and boom, offense was tops in the league.

Against Tampa in the playoffs, Moore was really good. Used motions and was creative. But against Washington the week before and the 49ers the week after, back to the same bland vanilla offense.

Seriously watch the routes being used by Moore and tell me that is great concepts by him

Have you ever considered that route concept was simple because that's all the QB can handle or the receivers didn't adjust?

 

[Floatyworm]

You wrote down the issue w Moore yourself. He can’t get the most out of Dak. Period. Somebody else needs to try.

Some people need to realize you can only do so much with a flawed QB....

AS LONG AS THE Cowboys keep going woke...they will stay broke.

 

[fairviewfarmer]

Well, a different OC might be more inclined to develop a power running game and actually call more running plays, and not let Dakota audible to an incomplete pass on 3rd and 2.... jmo

 

[BoysForLife]

Well, a different OC might be more inclined to develop a power running game and actually call more running plays, and not let Dakota audible to an incomplete pass on 3rd and 2.... jmo

In other words, Scott Linehan

One of Daks earlier victims. Chased out of town for "holding dak back"

 

[cowboys5xsbs]

That leaves one wondering why we are paying so much for the QB you described, but credit to you for at least answering the questions.

I agree but we are stuck with Dak and need to play the offense to his strengths now

 

[Adreme]

Ok agreed on the 20 part but with zeke at rb without pollard? Not sure now.

with pollard we were moving the ball, but dak blew it with picks. Then pollard went out. To me that was the end of the game.

Was Pollard really moving it that well? He had 6 carries for 22 yards (or 3.8 YPC) and most of that was from the one 10 yard run. I will be honest without the 10 yard run those numbers are the same as Zeke so it seems like they keyed in on the run and shut it down and then nobody but Lamb could really make a play. Its a fine argument to say choosing Gallup over Cooper was a mistake (or even Cooper over Schultz though that is 10m instead of 6m) but even with all that you should not look that bad.

The other big question is how did Dak suddenly gain an interception problem. He has not had that problem his entire career and suddenly this year he looks like Josh Allen in the only way you do not want that to be true. Something is not connecting with the offense especially when playing good teams and while I think they need to upgrade personnel at multiple positions (interior OLine, TE, WR, and soon RB), the fact that we could see the rolling out and using legs working (which again makes sense because its what Mahomes did to destroy them) and then they just stopped it again makes me think there is a coaching problem. It is not the only problem but it is a problem.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Was Pollard really moving it that well? He had 6 carries for 22 yards (or 3.8 YPC) and most of that was from the one 10 yard run. I will be honest without the 10 yard run those numbers are the same as Zeke so it seems like they keyed in on the run and shut it down and then nobody but Lamb could really make a play. Its a fine argument to say choosing Gallup over Cooper was a mistake (or even Cooper over Schultz though that is 10m instead of 6m) but even with all that you should not look that bad.

The other big question is how did Dak suddenly gain an interception problem. He has not had that problem his entire career and suddenly this year he looks like Josh Allen in the only way you do not want that to be true. Something is not connecting with the offense especially when playing good teams and while I think they need to upgrade personnel at multiple positions (interior OLine, TE, WR, and soon RB), the fact that we could see the rolling out and using legs working (which again makes sense because its what Mahomes did to destroy them) and then they just stopped it again makes me think there is a coaching problem. It is not the only problem but it is a problem.

pollard At the very least made the defense worry about him and the run game. zeke nothing. Cowboys were moving the ball in the first half dak just blew it with picks.

yah I’m baffled in the pick problem. but we know why some of them happened. Wrong or bad routes, tips. lets hope it’s an outlier.

 

[boysfanperiod]

You wrote down the issue w Moore yourself. He can’t get the most out of Dak. Period. Somebody else needs to try.

But what if this is the best you can get out of Dak? I want to see Moore gone only to see who the real culprit is. Dak has had 2 OCs whether some like them or not. Maybe, the third time is the charm. I just hate for it to turn into the Baker Mayfield OC trial and error.

 

[MoistMayonnaise]

This isn’t a fact. You won’t know until you try. It’s possible. But there’s no point in keeping the status quo. It doesn’t work.

You're right, time to let Dak go.

 

[Roadtrip635]

In other words, Scott Linehan

One of Daks earlier victims. Chased out of town for "holding dak back"

This is not a defense of Dak, but trying to use Linehan to try to prove a point is not helping your point. Linehan has been out of the league, but that wasn't because of Dak, his concepts were tried and old.

 

[tico]

Moore is predictable and cannot adjust to what the defense is stopping... he is not a playoff caliber Coach... he has NO feel for what's working and gets cute with pass happy playcalls

 

[WhizKid]

For all the people who want to ditch Moore, help me understand. If you drop the Andy Dalton year, the last 3 years the Cowboys have been 4th,
1st and 6th in scoring. For those 3 years combined, the Cowboys are 2nd in scoring only behind KC.
The OC accomplished this with a QB that everyone but those completely in the tank for Dak agrees has fatal limitations, torpedoed
our post season this year with turnovers, and ended our post season last year with the stupidest in game decision I've seen since.....well ever.

Seems like the obvious problem is the QB not the OC, and if anything this OC has over achieved.

My 2 questions to the legion of Zoners who want to ditch Moore are:
1. Given Dak's liabilities, what exactly do you think a new OC will realistically accomplish that Moore hasn't already accomplished?
2. Given how profilic Moore's offenses have been compared to those of other OC's, do y

1. If you watch other warner breakdowns you notice a similar criticism. Moore has a lot of man beater plays in his playbook and not a lot of or well drawn out zone beaters. Come playoff time, good teams are aware of this and adjust the Defense. At minimum, someone new with a more diversified playbook. The hope is the new coordinator can utilize the strengths of the offense and it's skill players better in situational football. I think the team in general is talented enough to win it all, they just need to make some minor tweaks, and given Moore's consistent flaw, you have to question whether or not he'll ever make that adjustment.

2. I think the offense is really talented, and with the right FA adds and some young talent through the draft, should be able to maintain that talent. Hell they should get better just losing Zeke alone. I do agree that it's a matter of grabbing the right OC and that could go either way. Its definitely a risky bet considering what you've pointed out and stating the obvious. But Moore's criticisms go beyond Dak. There was no good reason Zeke Elliot got as many touches as he did. The third string was better, and received no touches when pollard went out. That is a reflection of someone on offense.

We'll see what happens. I think more of the same will lead to more of the same. High scoring offense who poops the bed here and there. There being the playoffs, as teams play better situational football and are more aware of an offenses flaws. They won't win a Suberbowl. It's about choosing a direction going from there. We'll sink or swim. If certain aspects get better, we are SB favorites. If they get worse, higher draft pick and better chance at acquiring a talented QB early. I don't really have an answer to any of this, but I, like everybody, am trying to cope through the offseason. Whatever direction it goes, whether it be keeping Moore and hoping he makes those adjustments, or ridding of Moore and taking a chance on a new OC to make those adjustments, I just hope it works out.

 

[Clove]

For all the people who want to ditch Moore, help me understand. If you drop the Andy Dalton year, the last 3 years the Cowboys have been 4th,
1st and 6th in scoring. For those 3 years combined, the Cowboys are 2nd in scoring only behind KC.
The OC accomplished this with a QB that everyone but those completely in the tank for Dak agrees has fatal limitations, torpedoed
our post season this year with turnovers, and ended our post season last year with the stupidest in game decision I've seen since.....well ever.

Seems like the obvious problem is the QB not the OC, and if anything this OC has over achieved.

My 2 questions to the legion of Zoners who want to ditch Moore are:
1. Given Dak's liabilities, what exactly do you think a new OC will realistically accomplish that Moore hasn't already accomplished?
2. Given how profilic Moore's offenses have been compared to those of other OC's, do you realize it's likely that any offense under a new OC
will be worse not better?

Seems like you've contradicted yourself. If we have/had the #4th/1st & 6th scoring offense, who was the QB during this period? So by your logic, neither is the problem.
However, they both are flawed, but since you're paying one major dollars, seems in the best interest of the Cowboys to surround the one being paid major dollars with the appropriate personnel and scheme to maximize it's potential. This means replacing Moore.

I don't know if you saw this or not, but the all-22 showed plenty of run up and turn around "type" plays. That's not an innovative coordinator IMO.

Unless you draft a QB and bench Dak, I don't see any other way. You're not trading for Brady and taking on both Salaries? Right?