A movie franchise rescue?

Stash

Staff member
Messages
78,366
Reaction score
102,293
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I hope you're right, but I've heard many people talking about wishing they'd take a break with them in various conversations not online.

Some people may very well be tired of them, but looking at the box office, those people are in the vast minority. If anything, their financial returns only continue to grow. I'm actually amazed that in all this time, Marvel has yet to really have a clunker that disappoints big or loses money. Even the "average" movies and characters are pulling in $700 million returns, and setting up sequels, not to mention adding more and more characters for ensemble films like the Avengers.

Right now, their formula is nothing short of a license to print money.
 

Stash

Staff member
Messages
78,366
Reaction score
102,293
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
That's what makes me excited about Shazam and Spider-man (and of course Ant-man and Guardians, if they do any more.) They swear up and down that Guardians 3 is still a go, but it's on hold indefinitely at the moment.

That's one decision that I look at as a big mistake on their part. I'm not interested in getting into a moral debate, but I find it foolish that James Gunn and others are losing jobs over things as silly as "old Tweets".

And now, they've screwed up that franchise to the point that nobody knows when they'll make another, much less who might want to step in and try to fill his shoes as the director.
 

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
58,415
Reaction score
55,999
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Same here. And as much of a Marvel fanatic as I am, I have intentionally never bothered to watch the disaster that is Josh Trank's Fantastic Four. Like the recent Ghostbusters film, I find the very idea to be offensive. If as a director, you want to do everything your way, do everything your way. That means don't take someone else's idea and reimagine or recycle it as your own, the way you think it should be done. It's arrogant and quite frankly preposterous. You're not creative enough to come up with your own idea but you want to take someone else's and alter it to look the way you think it should be? I'll root for those people to fail every time.

As for the future of the FF? I can't help but to have confidence that Marvel will do them right whenever they get to it.

I have a lot of questions as to what the future of the Marvel Cinematic Universe will look like after Avengers Endgame. In the past, they had a well thought out and announced plan so we knew what to expect. At this point, there are a lot of rumors and things expected, but not much officially announced. And the soon-to-be-completed Fox acquisition will undoubtedly be a huge factor.

I'm expecting them to say goodbye to most of the Phase 1 characters and Avengers, at least for the time being in significant roles, but after that, I'm not sure what to expect. Could be Namor? Could be the Fantastic Four? Could be a total focus on the X-Men?

A lot of unknowns.
I was a bit more flexible in anticipation of what Trank would present, thinking his strictly dramatic premise meant he aimed at highlighting how the team was created, the responsibility they would assume, and (most importantly) their complicated and intertwined relationship with Dr. Victor Von Doom. If that meant slightly tweaking the comics version, it was so be it in my book.

Unfortunately, your premonition was far more on target than my own and the audience was gifted with a little more than crap. Worse, I thought Trank's effort did a grave disservice to Kate Mara, Michael B. Jordan and even Reg E. Cathey's acting abilities towards making the movie very good or better. The effort still continues to stick in my craw. Heck, it even makes me wonder what X-Men: Dark Phoenix has in-store for audiences since it's plot and premise will get tweaked for certain but I digress.

There may be an adjustment period. Evolving beyond the acting contributions of Robert Downey Jr. Chris Hemsworth, Scarlett Johansson and Chris Evans in particular will be the MCU's toughest task. That is why I hope incoming actors adopting newer headlining roles will take on the challenge and commitment as equally well as their predecessors. That will be especially true of actors taking on the roles of Reed Richards, Sue and Johnny Storm, Ben Grimm and Dr. Doom.

While their title did wither over the years, they are still primary characters of what Stan Lee billed on every book cover as The World's Greatest Comic Magazine! I hope Marvel/Disney resurrect the comic's characters as the icons they were and are with appropriate casting. Jessica Alba was likely the sexiest Sue Storm that will ever hit the big screen but she was not truly Sue in my opinion. Ioan Gruffurd, Jilian McMahon and Michael Chiklis were good choices for Reed, Doom and Ben but were never allowed (or knew how) to more truly represent their characters' essences on-screen. Ironically, Chris Evans' Johnny still remains as the best character representation from both original movies for me. Guess that guy has character adaptation down to a science, lol. Whoever steps into their shoes must be better than them to make any new FF films a critical success.

I am okay with unknowns. There are literally TONS of solid material for movie adaptation but do not make me dream too big. :p The Sub-Mariner would be an epic challenge that, if done right, could overshadow Aquaman's success in short order. That is one project I would love seeing come to life.

Personally, I would like seeing MCU's future endeavors co-share their central episodic theme between X-Men and the FF. The X-Men could adopt the initial Avengers first two movie's premise of defending the Earth primarily, while the Fantastic Four could be a co-partner or replacement for the Guardians concerning more cosmic based threats. It should not be hard stretch for the latter with its mutual history involving Galactus and/or the Negative Zone's Annihilus for examples. Then the two (or three) groups could mesh together for another 'universe saving joint effort' now playing out in Infinity War.

People can go ahead and sue me. When it comes to these movies, I dream big. :muttley:
 

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
58,415
Reaction score
55,999
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
That's what makes me excited about Shazam and Spider-man (and of course Ant-man and Guardians, if they do any more.) They swear up and down that Guardians 3 is still a go, but it's on hold indefinitely at the moment.
Glad there are people believing a Billy Batson movie has a promising future. I am still pessimistic about the idea and the first trailer I have seen did not make me optimistic about its possible box office appeal. Then again, the movie may put my impressions in their proper place. If so, I will not complain. ;)
 

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff
Messages
50,368
Reaction score
94,336
CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
I agree, and added diversity in characters and tone will help as well. I've long felt that Black Widow and Hawkeye could have a fine movie of their own that partially followed a formula like the Bourne series established. They were exciting, dramatic, suspenseful, and action-packed without having to go galactic and superhero levels.
I've always wondered why Black Widow didn't have her own movie. Her interrogation scene in the warehouse, in the first Avengers movie was my third favorite scene, led only by the Hulk punching Thor upon stopping the giant alien machine (whatever it's called) and of course, Hulk going all Bam Bam on Loki.
 

Stash

Staff member
Messages
78,366
Reaction score
102,293
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I was a bit more flexible in anticipation of what Trank would present, thinking his strictly dramatic premise meant he aimed at highlighting how the team was created, the responsibility they would assume, and (most importantly) their complicated and intertwined relationship with Dr. Victor Von Doom. If that meant slightly tweaking the comics version, it was so be it in my book.

Unfortunately, your premonition was far more on target than my own and the audience was gifted with a little more than crap. Worse, I thought Trank's effort did a grave disservice to Kate Mara, Michael B. Jordan and even Reg E. Cathey's acting abilities towards making the movie very good or better. The effort still continues to stick in my craw.

And Trank suffered a career meltdown from which he has yet to recover.

Heck, it even makes me wonder what X-Men: Dark Phoenix has in-store for audiences since it's plot and premise will get tweaked for certain but I digress.

My best advice to you? Take it as your Alita movie and enjoy it for the forgettable one-shot that it will be. Marvel knows that the Fox X-Men need to be done away with and rebooted. And anything that happens in Dark Phoenix won't matter as soon as you leave the theater. If they had their way, I don't even think the film would be released, it just confuses people for the future, and almost sets a reboot back. I don't expect the other film, New Mutants to get a theatrical release. It's not worth doing the damage to the characters for what little it might make.

There may be an adjustment period. Evolving beyond the acting contributions of Robert Downey Jr. Chris Hemsworth, Scarlett Johansson and Chris Evans in particular will be the MCU's toughest task. That is why I hope incoming actors adopting newer headlining roles will take on the challenge and commitment as equally well as their predecessors. That will be especially true of actors taking on the roles of Reed Richards, Sue and Johnny Storm, Ben Grimm and Dr. Doom.

Looking back on their track record, Marvel did a great job with all of them, and virtually every casting choice they've made since Iron man 1. In fact, they've made all of those people far richer than they would have ever been otherwise. None reaches the level of success outside Marvel that they do inside.

While their title did wither over the years, they are still primary characters of what Stan Lee billed on every book cover as The World's Greatest Comic Magazine! I hope Marvel/Disney resurrect the comic's characters as the icons they were and are with appropriate casting. Jessica Alba was likely the sexiest Sue Storm that will ever hit the big screen but she was not truly Sue in my opinion. Ioan Gruffurd, Jilian McMahon and Michael Chiklis were good choices for Reed, Doom and Ben but were never allowed (or knew how) to more truly represent their characters' essences on-screen. Ironically, Chris Evans' Johnny still remains as the best character representation from both original movies for me. Guess that guy has character adaptation down to a science, lol. Whoever steps into their shoes must be better than them to make any new FF films a critical success.

I thought they were all miscast, save for Evans and Chiklis, but the childish script did none of them any favors. I've heard rumors of John Krasinski and Emily Blunt playing Reed and Sue. I think they'd do a good job.

I am okay with unknowns. There are literally TONS of solid material for movie adaptation but do not make me dream too big. :p The Sub-Mariner would be an epic challenge that, if done right, could overshadow Aquaman's success in short order. That is one project I would love seeing come to life.

But it would be made tougher having to follow Aquaman without looking too repetitive too fast. That's why my guess is that he might show up for Black Panther 2 as a villain or antagonist of some sort. He and Atlantis could be introduced without having to make an entire movie underwater, looking too much like Aquaman too soon.

Personally, I would like seeing MCU's future endeavors co-share their central episodic theme between X-Men and the FF. The X-Men could adopt the initial Avengers first two movie's premise of defending the Earth primarily, while the Fantastic Four could be a co-partner or replacement for the Guardians concerning more cosmic based threats. It should not be hard stretch for the latter with its mutual history involving Galactus and/or the Negative Zone's Annihilus for examples. Then the two (or three) groups could mesh together for another 'universe saving joint effort' now playing out in Infinity War.

People can go ahead and sue me. When it comes to these movies, I dream big. :muttley:

After these past two Avengers films, I don't think anything can qualify as "too big" anymore. I'm thinking of an eventual live action Secret Wars before it's all said and done. Doesn't get much bigger than that.

One nerdy side note, I'd like to see Marvel introduce a great deal more villains. Even if it's a small cameo where they're locked up in a place like the Raft, or being arrested after a loss to the heroes. Their ranks need to be bigger and we need a team of villains fighting the heroes, rather than the endless, faceless, nameless CGI hordes we're always getting. If you're talking about "fatigue"? Yeah, start there.
 

Stash

Staff member
Messages
78,366
Reaction score
102,293
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I've always wondered why Black Widow didn't have her own movie. Her interrogation scene in the warehouse, in the first Avengers movie was my third favorite scene, led only by the Hulk punching Thor upon stopping the giant alien machine (whatever it's called) and of course, Hulk going all Bam Bam on Loki.

She's on track to be getting one within the next two years if rumors are to be believed. And I'm hearing that it might be a prequel that takes place in the past, like the upcoming Captain Marvel is set back in the 90's.
 

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
58,415
Reaction score
55,999
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I've always wondered why Black Widow didn't have her own movie. Her interrogation scene in the warehouse, in the first Avengers movie was my third favorite scene, led only by the Hulk punching Thor upon stopping the giant alien machine (whatever it's called) and of course, Hulk going all Bam Bam on Loki.
Bold> My opinion? I think it is has everything to do with closed minded male oriented Hollywood ego that kept Wonder Woman's character from hitting the big screen before Patty Jenkins' project finally broke through the nonsense.

Nothing stopped studios from popping out pseudo Batman movies during the 90's (Oh look! Batman and Robin have nipples on their suits! :rolleyes: ), while the third of DC Comics' three iconic characters languished in 1970's television reruns. Stupid. Sigourney Weaver in Aliens should have shook the idiots out of their complacent fear in the 80's. Foolishness. Bridget Fonda's Point of No Return should have wetted a few appetites. Silliness. Angelica Jolie's Tomb Raider films after the turn of the century should have sparked some real interest AND IF not Uma Thurman's Kill: Bill movies SHOULD have! Dumb.

Nope. Some sort of box office phobia keeps some studio heads from pulling the trigger just as easily as they do with primarily male-lead oriented action films that have had their share of D.O.A. trips to bomb shelters. Just does not make any sense. SMH.

Pardon the rant.
 

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff
Messages
50,368
Reaction score
94,336
CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
Well it’s not sexist,and people just like good humor. Like anyone cares if it’s girls or guys. Loooool. Makes no difference to people.funny is funny,and stink is stink.
It's not like people haven't accepted Melissa McCarthy and Kristen Wiig as comedic actresses, based on the film's they've already made. So don't blame this failure on misogyny.
 

Chrispierce

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,001
Reaction score
3,851
It's not like people haven't accepted Melissa McCarthy and Kristen Wiig as comedic actresses, based on the film's they've already made. So don't blame this failure on misogyny.
Exactly. No one cared they were girls as the four. They should just admit the truth. “We made a stinker”
 

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff
Messages
50,368
Reaction score
94,336
CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
Bold> My opinion? I think it is has everything to do with closed minded male oriented Hollywood ego that kept Wonder Woman's character from hitting the big screen before Patty Jenkins' project finally broke through the nonsense.

Nothing stopped studios from popping out pseudo Batman movies during the 90's (Oh look! Batman and Robin have nipples on their suits! :rolleyes: ), while the third of DC Comics' three iconic characters languished in 1970's television reruns. Stupid. Sigourney Weaver in Aliens should have shook the idiots out of their complacent fear in the 80's. Foolishness. Bridget Fonda's Point of No Return should have wetted a few appetites. Silliness. Angelica Jolie's Tomb Raider films after the turn of the century should have sparked some real interest AND IF not Uma Thurman's Kill: Bill movies SHOULD have! Dumb.

Nope. Some sort of box office phobia keeps some studio heads from pulling the trigger just as easily as they do with primarily male-lead oriented action films that have had their share of D.O.A. trips to bomb shelters. Just does not make any sense. SMH.

Pardon the rant.
Are you sure it isn't just that she isn't technically a "superhero"? She's highly skilled, and totally badass, but she still completely mortal, with human strength and speed. Maybe that has something to do with it. After all, there have been movies like Ultraviolet, and several others, two of which starred Scarlett Johansson.
 

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
58,415
Reaction score
55,999
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I thought they were all miscast, save for Evans and Chiklis, but the childish script did none of them any favors. I've heard rumors of John Krasinski and Emily Blunt playing Reed and Sue. I think they'd do a good job.
I could totally get behind Blunt as Sue. Krasinski? I do not know. Good actor but I think there is one guy who could go the Chris Evans role and reinvent himself as a more believable Marvel character like Reed Richards: Michael Fassbender. He has the stature, vocabulary and demeanor for the world's (and one of the galaxy's) premier scientists. I think he could easily shred his Erik persona for Reed's.
One nerdy side note, I'd like to see Marvel introduce a great deal more villains. Even if it's a small cameo where they're locked up in a place like the Raft, or being arrested after a loss to the heroes. Their ranks need to be bigger and we need a team of villains fighting the heroes, rather than the endless, faceless, nameless CGI hordes we're always getting. If you're talking about "fatigue"? Yeah, start there.
Well, any new X-Men movie can start with the Hellfire Club as their primary antagonists for me. That group would be a gateway from a number of high profile villains from the mutant titles.
 

Stash

Staff member
Messages
78,366
Reaction score
102,293
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I could totally get behind Blunt as Sue. Krasinski? I do not know. Good actor but I think there is one guy who could go the Chris Evans role and reinvent himself as a more believable Marvel character like Reed Richards: Michael Fassbender. He has the stature, vocabulary and demeanor for the world's (and one of the galaxy's) premier scientists. I think he could easily shred his Erik persona for Reed's.

I love the actor, but fear he's too typecast as Magneto after several films now. There would be constant, inevitable comparisons. I think Krasinski might pull it off. As long as he could handle Reed's trademark scientific psycho-babble. That's key.

Well, any new X-Men movie can start with the Hellfire Club as their primary antagonists for me. That group would be a gateway from a number of high profile villains from the mutant titles.

I think Magneto and the Brotherhood of Mutants will be the first. He's the ying to Xavier's yang and there can't be one without the other. It's just too bad that McKellen and Stewart are too old to play the roles going forward. Tremendous actors who were never given enough for their talents to work with, save for a brief part for Stewart in Wolverine. It's a shame that it took until the end for it to happen.
 

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
58,415
Reaction score
55,999
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Are you sure it isn't just that she isn't technically a "superhero"? She's highly skilled, and totally badass, but she still completely mortal, with human strength and speed. Maybe that has something to do with it. After all, there have been movies like Ultraviolet, and several others, two of which starred Scarlett Johansson.
Totally disagree. Batman's character would have never sniffed the big screen if those were 'unquestionable super hero' disqualifiers. And while I am huge Lucy fan, none of those examples had serious dramatic 'realistic' screenplays that would engross anyone outside their small core audiences long-term. Other than Lucy, those were 'let's throw something out there and see if it sticks on a wall' film efforts. I expect much better when Black Widow finally hits theaters--whenever that may be.
 

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff
Messages
50,368
Reaction score
94,336
CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
Totally disagree. Batman's character would have never sniffed the big screen if those were 'unquestionable super hero' disqualifiers. And while I am huge Lucy fan, none of those examples had serious dramatic 'realistic' screenplays that would engross anyone outside their small core audiences long-term. Other than Lucy, those were 'let's throw something out there and see if it sticks on a wall' film efforts. I expect much better when Black Widow finally hits theaters--whenever that may be.
I'm just thinking that they may have been thinking the Avengers franchise should start off focusing on the characters with superpowers.
 

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
58,415
Reaction score
55,999
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I love the actor, but fear he's too typecast as Magneto after several films now. There would be constant, inevitable comparisons. I think Krasinski might pull it off. As long as he could handle Reed's trademark scientific psycho-babble. That's key.



I think Magneto and the Brotherhood of Mutants will be the first. He's the ying to Xavier's yang and there can't be one without the other. It's just too bad that McKellen and Stewart are too old to play the roles going forward. Tremendous actors who were never given enough for their talents to work with, save for a brief part for Stewart in Wolverine. It's a shame that it took until the end for it to happen.
True. Dark Phoenix would be Fassbender's fourth mutant film but it would be only two movies more than Evans' pre-Steve Rogers appearances. And audiences may develop a bit of amnesia depending on whether DP does not enjoy any relative success.

I like Krasinski. Just cannot picture him as Richards. However, he might blast me away with his portrayal lol. Who knows? Selfishly, I want Richards' character back on the big screen and finally wow audiences with an unmatched intellect like Stark's did. Here's hoping.
 

Stash

Staff member
Messages
78,366
Reaction score
102,293
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I'm just thinking that they may have been thinking the Avengers franchise should start off focusing on the characters with superpowers.

I think there was definitely some sexism going on in the past, it's undeniable. But, people have also tried and failed for years to have female-led film projects. For every one Ripley and Alien there were 20 Halle Berry and Catwoman. Thankfully, however we look to be moving past that past ignorance and discrimination and it's now about great characters and great stories, regardless of gender.

Wonder Woman was a big hit, and I expect Captain Marvel to be as well, as well as the eventual Black Widow film. Good films are good films, bad films are bad films.
 

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
58,415
Reaction score
55,999
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I'm just thinking that they may have been thinking the Avengers franchise should start off focusing on the characters with superpowers.
You are riling my comic book nerd side saying Avengers 'characters with superpowers'. :p Technically, Tony Stark does not have superpowers and he has three independent films to his credit.
 

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff
Messages
50,368
Reaction score
94,336
CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
True. Dark Phoenix would be Fassbender's fourth mutant film but it would be only two movies more than Evans' pre-Steve Rogers appearances. And audiences may develop a bit of amnesia depending on whether DP does not enjoy any relative success.

I like Krasinski. Just cannot picture him as Richards. However, he might blast me away with his portrayal lol. Who knows? Selfishly, I want Richards' character back on the big screen and finally wow audiences with an unmatched intellect like Stark's did. Here's hoping.
They'll totally surprise you and bring in someone like Justin Timberlake to play Reed Richards.
 
Top