CFZ A Possible Explanation of Why Dak Played Jekyll and Hyde (and Hope I Find)

Flamma

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You have some strong moments here, khiladi, some great posts. If you say wanna say Dak isn't top six NFL QB, or top twelve...ok...I'm ready to listen and might agree. But with this nonsense your toilet is overflowing, and it stinks hard. Please clean up the mess, as if you keep piping this...I'll begin to wonder why I often value your posts.
The only problem I have with ranking QBs top 5 or top 10, is that it really doesn't mean anything in regard to their talent. If I have the biggest set of balls in a room full of Eunuch's, what does that really say? If I have 20 piles, and the first 5 piles are gold, the rest steaming horse crap, what does that say about a pile in the top 6-10? It's still crap.

Dak is perfectly capable given the proper game planning and talent around him. But people tend to judge him based on where he ranks among QBs. It means nothing.

If Mahomes and Rodgers are #1 and #2. Then Rodgers retires and Dak is now #2, that doesn't make Dak as good as Rodgers. Dak is always going to be him, no matter the rank.
 

khiladi

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WTH are you whining about? Bunch of lies as usual! I hardly disagreed with Kurt Warner during the several Cowboys games he broke down during the 2021 season because he was right! Everything I would say was wrong with the team and needed to be replaced (the Oline coach, the O-Coordinator's schemes and playcalling, certain players poor performances, including Amari Cooper not being worth paid $20+ million for his taking plays/series off, etc) all has come true. They have all been cut, traded or let go. I HAVE BEEN PROVEN RIGHT WITH THE ACTIONS FROM THIS FRONT OFFICE, and it is eating you up alive because it proves you are totally clueless!!! You don't know what you are talking about! Nothing but a whiny, sorelosing, sour poster who makes up lies.
:lmao: :laugh: :lmao: :laugh: :lmao:
Even you says your problem with him was because he called out Dak too much, meaning you admitted he focused on Dak. Now are you are saying you were right about everything, except the main issue, which was Dak…
 

khiladi

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You have some strong moments here, khiladi, some great posts. If you say wanna say Dak isn't top six NFL QB, or top twelve...ok...I'm ready to listen and might agree. But with this nonsense your toilet is overflowing, and it stinks hard. Please clean up the mess, as if you keep piping this...I'll begin to wonder why I often value your posts.
Dak has consistently stunk for significant stretches of play, where he has arguably been one of the worst players on the field, every season he has been here.

This idea this year was an anomaly of Jekyll and Hyde play is completely wrong. He’s don’t it year in and year out.
 

nalam

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Kurt Warner is basically a jedi master at the art of the QB. If he says that he does not understand why advanced elements of an NFL offense are not being implemented I believe him. There are then only 2 explanations either Kellen Moore is either too dumb to implement them or Dak is too dumb to execute them. Kellen Moore may be a lot of things but he is not too dumb to implement anything.

Dak is but he has strengths and weaknesses. When we lean on his strengths we are fantastic. We are both efficient and repeatable. When we lean on his weaknesses we fold.
the bolded statement is very true, KM and Dak combo got good at repeating certain elements which was good against mediocre defenses like ( Gints) but superior defenses like SF made them pay. The predictability….

moreover when things are not working Dak cant produce without elite running attack , very good OL ( pass protection) and elite def getting ball back.
 

T-RO

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Dak has consistently stunk for significant stretches of play, where he has arguably been one of the worst players on the field, every season he has been here.

This idea this year was an anomaly of Jekyll and Hyde play is completely wrong. He’s don’t it year in and year out.
Your evaluation skills are overdue for service time in the shop. Your calibrator is out.

-Dak was rookie of the year. He's been to two pro bowls.
-Team is 61-36 when he starts
-Currently ranks as 10th best QB at PFF, where he's ranked as high as seven
-Ranked third in 2021, end-of-season @StatMuse
-Ranked 6th by Ringer.com
-Ranked 7th by ProFootballNetwork

Dak isn't top five. Anything 6-12 is up for debate. Calling him "one of the worst players" proves you have some emotional hornet stuck in your head, and that you've stopped even attempting rational dialog.
 

DandyDon1722

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Your evaluation skills are overdue for service time in the shop. Your calibrator is out.

-Dak was rookie of the year. He's been to two pro bowls.
-Team is 61-36 when he starts
-Currently ranks as 10th best QB at PFF, where he's ranked as high as seven
-Ranked third in 2021, end-of-season @StatMuse
-Ranked 6th by Ringer.com
-Ranked 7th by ProFootballNetwork

Dak isn't top five. Anything 6-12 is up for debate. Calling him "one of the worst players" proves you have some emotional hornet stuck in your head, and that you've stopped even attempting rational dialog.
Here's what is not factored in and there is no analytic or statistic that can measure it but it's probably the most important thing facing Dak this season.

The mental side.

There's no way around the fact that recency bias will kick in on the first pick Dak throws this year, and he will hear it. If he slides, even a little, it will be harder for him to overcome the fan base. He's had plenty of time and has not met expectations and he's on a short leash with fans (as evidenced in here every day) so he is going to have to be really mentally strong to overcome what's coming.

As Troy once said. "Dallas isn't a Cowboy's town it's a winner's town." We ran Meredith off and turned on Troy at the end. I'm not sure Dak can maintain his confidence, especially if he struggles early.

We shall see.
 

T-RO

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There's no way around the fact that recency bias will kick in on the first pick Dak throws this year, and he will hear it. If he slides, even a little, it will be harder for him to overcome the fan base. He's had plenty of time and has not met expectations and he's on a short leash with fans (as evidenced in here every day) so he is going to have to be really mentally strong to overcome what's coming.

As Troy once said. "Dallas isn't a Cowboy's town it's a winner's town." We ran Meredith off and turned on Troy at the end. I'm not sure Dak can maintain his confidence, especially if he struggles early.

We shall see.
Dak has had bad games before. He's faced scalding criticism before. This scenario doesn't worry me much at all.

The transition from Coach Moore to Big Mike...now that worries me.
 

TheHerd

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You forgot to mention how Tyron Smith was bullrushed right into Dak's throwing arm and space, obviously affecting his throw.
I love Dak as much as anyone here, but cmon. Tyron didn't have a good rep, but Dak had a clear throw. He made a bad throw, it's that simple. He's made a ton of great ones, just watch the Tampa game. But that drive was not great.
 

America's Cowboy

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I love Dak as much as anyone here, but cmon. Tyron didn't have a good rep, but Dak had a clear throw. He made a bad throw, it's that simple. He's made a ton of great ones, just watch the Tampa game. But that drive was not great.
Dak did not have a clear throw. Stop being dishonest. It's all on tape...

 

MyFairLady

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Prescott was clearly sliding to his left on the throw to Gallup. Basically mission impossible.
 

Bigrandrn

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So when Dak went for 300 yards and 5 TD's against the Bucs that wasnt accuracy in the playoffs?

Only time Dak has played less that good in the playoffs was against the #1 D niners twice. The other 4 times in the playoffs he has been good if not great.
Yeah, those are important games…….we had the ores offense controlled, our QB lost us that game. He also led the league in picks despite missing 5 games. Hey, I’d LOVE him to come through and win is a SB, but ive seen too many games from him where he looks skittish or scared and plays bad, balls all over the place. Thankfully he has more good games than bad.
 

FanofJerry

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Is there any way that Playoff football has our O-Line giving significantly less time for Dak to operate? Could that be coupled with WR routes being too long to develop...while Dak is getting pressured? Uncreative/predictable hot routes?

Or is Dak making bad decisions/throws?
 

CowboyoWales

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Is there any way that Playoff football has our O-Line giving significantly less time for Dak to operate? Could that be coupled with WR routes being too long to develop...while Dak is getting pressured? Uncreative/predictable hot routes?

Or is Dak making bad decisions/throws?
.....or that Dak isnt the same QB when he doesnt have a running game and is forced to chase a lead in a hurry-up offense. Not saying that everything was perfect, however, we arent going to see a dramatic improvement in the roster, that CAP money is going to Dak, CeeDee, Diggs (and then Micah), so either Dak finds a way to step up in face of the adversity or we take the route of rookie QB, with CAP to strengthen the weapons package.
 

StarOfGlory

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That first link is misleading. Statmuse, unless it has a simple, specific stat to track, will just list teams. It’s a little bit of a faulty site. Notice how it’s not ranking them by any noted metric.

Here are some other ones:

ESPN has Dallas 6th


PFN has Dallas 5th
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-offensive-lines-nfl-rankings/amp/

FTN has them 8th
https://www.ftnfantasy.com/articles/FTN/50012/nfl-offensive-line-rankings

PFF has them 6th
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-unit-rankings-tiers-2022

TGD has them 9th
https://thegameday.com/nfl/power-rankings/ol/

Lineups has them 5th
https://www.lineups.com/articles/nfl-offensive-line-rankings



While I don’t dispute Dallas had issues on the Oline, so did many teams last year. A big reason why Philly and Dallas had such ballooned sack values. But the Cowboys finished the season right around where their Oline was rated as being (roughly 7th best team in the league, lost in divisional round).

Philly's sack value is quite different from Dallas. Hurts was blitzed 173 times in 406 pass attempts, while Dak was blitzed 106 times in 394 attempts. Hurts was sacked 38 times but only knocked down 22, while Dak was sacked 20 times but knocked down 37. Philly's O-line has to continually block for a QB in motion due to designed plays or on the spot decision-making from the QB on RPO's, while the Dallas O-line has the job of what I call "holding the line" for most plays. Hurts also has sacks against him while holding on the the ball and trying to run around and make plays, more so than Dak or almost any other QB. In fact, our O-line was better than a lot of posters want to credit.

How the heck is Minnesota's line ranked 7th? They get destroyed on a regular basis against good teams.
 

FanofJerry

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.....or that Dak isnt the same QB when he doesnt have a running game and is forced to chase a lead in a hurry-up offense. Not saying that everything was perfect, however, we arent going to see a dramatic improvement in the roster, that CAP money is going to Dak, CeeDee, Diggs (and then Micah), so either Dak finds a way to step up in face of the adversity or we take the route of rookie QB, with CAP to strengthen the weapons package.
I will agree Dak should take a discount so the team can put better weapons on the team or Dallas should wait until this season is over and force Dak to prove he is worth another high end QB contract.

But...Im not a QB Guru. I have no idea what Dak's flaws are or whether he has serious a one/s. The Dallas Cowboys should have the resources to determine if Dak is capable on the in-game decision making.

I guess we will find out how much Dallas trusts Dak with this next contract size or by when it is signed.
 

CowboyoWales

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But...Im not a QB Guru. I have no idea what Dak's flaws are or whether he has serious a one/s. The Dallas Cowboys should have the resources to determine if Dak is capable on the in-game decision making.
In a way that's why the organization has to work out what makes Dak so inconsistent. There are clues in the games.....so long as we accept that he's not perfect.....and that's the problem where there's an element of the fanbase who deflect the responsibility to everyone else.

I know many on here dont like it, but Jimmie Ward in 49ers Mark1 explained what Dak's flaw's are......something they were able to replicate in Mark 2......'stop the run and they dont think Dak can beat them'. Hence the comments about emphasizing the importance of our run game.

Personally I think a WCO will suit Dak's skillsets, quick and direct and doesnt play to Dak's internal worries and apparent anxiety to try throws that arent there.
 

FanofJerry

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In a way that's why the organization has to work out what makes Dak so inconsistent. There are clues in the games.....so long as we accept that he's not perfect.....and that's the problem where there's an element of the fanbase who deflect the responsibility to everyone else.

I know many on here dont like it, but Jimmie Ward in 49ers Mark1 explained what Dak's flaw's are......something they were able to replicate in Mark 2......'stop the run and they dont think Dak can beat them'. Hence the comments about emphasizing the importance of our run game.

Personally I think a WCO will suit Dak's skillsets, quick and direct and doesnt play to Dak's internal worries and apparent anxiety to try throws that arent there.
This is where I am with Dak. He is an above average Bus Driver that is not going to take on risks to win a game. Some QBs will let the ball fly and throw tight windows...I dont think that is Dak. Career wise...he is safe with the ball, imo. We can argue defenses have changed in past few years and Dak is throwing more INT's into those defenses...but I still think career wise he is safe with the ball. Some use him being safe with the ball as a way to attack him and claim he is a liability...and it very well could be a flaw in Playoffs. I dont fault Dak for being safe with the ball, though.

I think Dak is a risk-averse Bus Driver that should not require top dollar on his next contract. But...by no means should we move on from him without a back up or back up plan unless he is requiring top QB money again. IMO, he should back off the TOP QB dollar requirements on this next negotiation.

The offensive coaches and FO should be able to sit down and determine if Dak is performing high level and making correct decisions and if TOP DOLLAR is warranted though....not me.

I think he can play ball well. I just dont know if there is something mental(too safe with ball, etc) with him that could hurt his clutch/playoff performances. Again...coaches should inform the FO if there are issues and set contract figures based around that.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Dak has consistently stunk for significant stretches of play, where he has arguably been one of the worst players on the field, every season he has been here.

This idea this year was an anomaly of Jekyll and Hyde play is completely wrong. He’s don’t it year in and year out.
Yet his stats and team wins are among top 10 in the league. According to the pundits here, Yet we say Gallup sucked. Yet we say Schultz sucked. Yet biadasz sucked. Yet zeke sucked. So how is it that most talent on the team sucked. The QB sucked. Yet we have a winning record and some of the better offensive sthe league. League....somehow your bullshiet doesnt add up.
 

FanofJerry

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Yet his stats and team wins are among top 10 in the league. According to the pundits here, Yet we say Gallup sucked. Yet we say Schultz sucked. Yet biadasz sucked. Yet zeke sucked. So how is it that most talent on the team sucked. The QB sucked. Yet we have a winning record and some of the better offensive sthe league. League....somehow your bullshiet doesnt add up.
Here is my issue with Khiladi's Dak stance...

And Khiladi could be in fact correct(I dont watch film or know what Dak should be doing to even give an opinion if I did watch tape)

Khiladi has beat the drum that Dak makes bad reads/decisions for a while now. If true...would the Jones' and FO not have the resources to come to the same conclusion as Khiladi and then, if Khiladi's judgement is correct...wouldnt the Cowboys draft a QB already and start grooming him knowing that Dak is not cutting it?

Is Khiladi wrong or the Cowboys stupid?

I have posted on here that I believe the Cowboys were put off by Dak and his agents negotiations last contract. Dak had the power and won. Dak seemed to be thrown to the wolves that first game after the contract as Moore seemed to call plays that made Dak show what he could do(I dont watch tape of know x and o's...but there was a lot of discussion about the weird play calls after that game which lead me to my opinion the Cowboys threw Dak to wolves). Dak did not seem to pass the test(assuming the Jones gave Moore directive to make the game hard on the new 40M dollar man)....as the Jones left their box before the game was over and the cameras kept showing the empty box. When was the last time Stephen and Jerry both got up and walked out of the box before a game was over?

I could be wrong...but I dont believe the Cowboys take the same position with Dak this next go around. Now...some here have said that based on the contract he is here a while due to cap hits and we have to resign him. But why not draft a guy?

Is Dak bad in clutch situations against good teams? Does he get anxiety throwing into tight coverage against elite defenses when that has to be done to win in the 4th in close games?

Someone is wrong here...but I have no clue. I guess I would draft a backup for sure...so thats on Dallas, I guess. But is Dak trash or is that overstated?
 

GINeric

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Reality is Dak is in year 8…. He’s been a disaster for large parts of it, despite the best OL and RG in the league and an offense tailored to his “skill set”. If anybody actually looks at a season by season basis he has stretches of play where he’s arguably one of the worst players on the field.. it happens year in and out..

The blow out games are generally ones in which you can tell Moore is like 5 steps ahead of the DC, where the defense has to play both run and pass. When the game slows down, you get pick 6 Dak or conservative shell..

Okay, you started off saying that Dak is in year 8, but in reality he's only played he's only played 6 seasons fully healthy, (unless you're holding him accountable with a broken ankle too, which wouldn't surprise me)

Now Dak isn't elite by any stretch, but.... how many elite quarterbacks won superbowls within 6 or 7 full seasons???

Peyton Manning and Drew Brees didn't.... Matt Ryan, Dan Marino, Warren Moon, John Elway didn't do it...

Hell Matt Stafford who's DEFINITELY not elite didn't win his first playoff game until his 11th or 12th year in the league.

With all of this said... if all of those great and elite quarterbacks wasn't able to close the deal in their first 6 or 7 complete seasons, how are you going to hold Dak to a different standard??? Hell, Dak won his first playoff game before many of the quarterbacks ive listed.

You see the hypocrisy in your and many other's arguments?? Do you care to explain why these other quarterbacks came out of the gate slower than Dak in some categories??

Now before you respond to this statement, remember what the rule is around here for Dak. Many here have said that "a GOOD quarterback is supposed to elevate the talent around him. So that excuse can't be used as to why those other quarterbacks haven't won superbowls in their first 6 or 7 full seasons... just like Dak hasn't.


So go ahead and explain why those other elite quarterbacks had the same lack of superbowl wins as Dak does at this same time in their careers.
 
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