A starting caliber guard will be at 50

[4th_and_short]

The offense consists of four first round draft picks:

Elliott, Smith, Fredrick, and Martin.

Witten and Williams were third rounders, Beasley and Hurns were undrafted.

And Dak was a fourth round draft pick.

On defense, they have a first invested in Taco, a second and third invested in Lawrence. A first rounder invested in Byron Jones too. A third invested in Maliek Collins, a second invested it Lee and Smith, as well as Awuzie last year, and a third rounder invested in Jordan Lewis. I don't see a disproportionate allocation of resources between the two sides of the ball.



Again, I'm not deadset against taking a DT if the proper value is there and he's a superior player to either of the guards



The guard at #19. Your claims of "similar talent" aren't accurate.

I can guarantee that he will start and play 100% of the snaps barring injury. Nobody can do the same for any linebacker this team could draft.

You’re right about the picks. Allow me to rephrase. The Oline (with its three 1Rs and arguably a 4th contract wise) does not need another premium pick to be complete. Does LG need to be addressed? Yes. Does it need to be at 19? I don’t think so. Your opinion on the talent of the G prospects is just that. I don’t claim to be an expert but I think we can get a quality high-level starter in the 2nd or later. If Dallas has proved anything in the recent years it’s that it can develop lineman.

 

[Stash]

Ummm if a guy is cut after immediately getting healthy, he's not good enough to get his job back. That's pretty basic logic.

No, what it says is that he never got the opportunity. There the "basic logic." Can't "fail to get the job back" when you never get the opportunity because you're injured.

And when he was available to us, he wasn't injured or coming off injury. He was healthy. Cleveland cut him because they thought they had a better player in Bailey.

And when did "Cleveland thought" become a good thing? Or something to endorse? I mean seriously, you're resorting to rubber stamping a move that the Browns made in yet another desperate attempt to prove a failed point? Not making you look any better here.

And the reality is, if that broken leg before his rookie year has hindered him throughout his career, its not like you can pretend it never happened. He broke his leg. It may have made him a worse player. In the end, he's still a worse player who never lived up to his first round status and is nothing more than a journeyman OG who was passed off to two other teams before landing in Dallas on a fairly cheap, one year, prove it contract.

I'm nit the guy "pretending" anything here. That's be you with you revisionist history. You declared him "relatively healthy" in Arizona, remember? Sheesh.

I get your San Fran point and it makes sense. So I was wrong there. But what I was trying to say was the Cooper, being a journeyman OG, got a fairly cheap one year, prove it deal.

Where? When? Please be more specific.

You've basically made Cooper out to be a much better player than he actually was when we took a chance on him in 2016. He was nothing more than a journeyman OG at that point likely looking at his final chance to stick with a team if he didn't play adequately enough.

No, you're trying to make him out to be trash like Marcus Martin to feel better about where this team currently sits at left guard. When none of it is true.

Here's the facts on Cooper. He got hurt a lot and that's why he bounced around the league, but he was undeniably a first round talent.

The Cowboys got him because he was often injured and the Browns are the Browns. Even when he played for them, the guy was getting praised for the job he did. You can look that up. If you can find the same thing ever being said about Martin, please share.

And the other fact is that Cooper played well for this team. Outplayed the guy this team wanted there, and he,d onto the job all season. And helped improve the offense and run game. And he is being missed. The fact that some fans now want to rewrite history so they can feel better about the loss? That's on them. But it doesn't make it true.

 

[Stash]

You’re right about the picks. Allow me to rephrase. The Oline (with its three 1Rs and arguably a 4th contract wise) does not need another premium pick to be complete.

So what group is being neglected then and "has to have" that 1st round pick?

Does LG need to be addressed? Yes. Does it need to be at 19? I don’t think so. Your opinion on the talent of the G prospects is just that. I don’t claim to be an expert but I think we can get a quality high-level starter in the 2nd or later.

So it's one opinion vs another?

If Dallas has proved anything in the recent years it’s that it can develop lineman.

Why? Who have they developed outside of first round talent? Ron Leary? How about Chaz Green?

 

[RandyOh]

"What's wrong" is that you're admitting he was a mistake. Even I feel you're nit admitting he was a mistake. Actions, not words. If he's relegated to playing strong side linebacker, it was a mistake to draft him in the first place. And he'll always be a part time player.

Why do you think this team has always had guys like Damien Wilson or Kyle Wilbur manning that spot? Because it's the least of the linebacker roles and the easiest to fill with lesser talent. Putting the #34 overall pick in that role means you blew it.



Part time linebacker value as well.

But I know what the league is paying for. They value the guard position. More and more each year.



You'll have to tell me about it if it happens then.

He was a Jerry pick. Of course it was a mistake. Not going to argue their but hes here and their is nothing we can do about it. If he can find a role on the team and do it great then yay he wasnt a total blown pick. Dont see why that way of thinking is upsetting you. Trying to force him to be what hes not at this point to try and make up for the mistake in not very smart of going about it. Look at the Seahawks. They saw they made a mistake last year taking Malik Mcdowell in the 2nd and are already releasing him. Wish we would admit our mistakes instead of giving players multiple chances.

And i made the counter to that in the draft they look at the money 5 over the rest. Teams will reach for an OT this year over a Guard. They always have and will continue. Just because the price for guard in free agency has risen on them, it doesn't mean that the price for QBs, LTs, Edge rushers, CBs, and WRs have fallen. If anything the price for most positions is on the rise due to rising cap. Safety value seems to have stalled though, But majority of the safeties in this years free agent class are strong safeties. Or shall i say worth while safeties are strong safeties. They will get their payday after the draft though. Hopefully we are one of the teams to pick one up.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

You could have said the same thing about Cooper last year. If Martin is such a bum - why did the genius Will McClay bring him in? Why would Paul Alexander, who has been coaching OLs, for 20+ years sign off on Martin? Maybe he is not a bum?

Maybe because he was brought in as a backup and to have a guy in place.

LG is a huge need. I like Hernandez but getting a guy in the 2nd is fine as well. We must maximize our talent at RB and protect Dak to allow him to go through progressions and find the open man. Heck I wouldn't mind taking up from our 3rd back into the 2nd to get a guy but we have to get a LG that can start day 1.

Not only that but Martin isn't resigned yet to a long term deal. Now I wouldn't worry too much but getting a rookie with 4-5 years doesn't put you in a bind

 

[Stash]

He was a Jerry pick. Of course it was a mistake. Not going to argue their but hes here and their is nothing we can do about it. If he can find a role on the team and do it great then yay he wasnt a total blown pick. Dont see why that way of thinking is upsetting you. Trying to force him to be what hes not at this point to try and make up for the mistake in not very smart of going about it. Look at the Seahawks. They saw they made a mistake last year taking Malik Mcdowell in the 2nd and are already releasing him. Wish we would admit our mistakes instead of giving players multiple chances.

Ok. I'm not yet ready to close the book on Jaylon Smith as you are.

And i made the counter to that in the draft they look at the money 5 over the rest. Teams will reach for an OT this year over a Guard. They always have and will continue.

Just because the price for guard in free agency has risen on them, it doesn't mean that the price for QBs, LTs, Edge rushers, CBs, and WRs have fallen.

Nobody ever said it did, did they? What it does say I say that lesser valued position are paid less , not more. Guard salaries are rising, not falling. And rising a great deal too.

If anything the price for most positions is on the rise due to rising cap. Safety value seems to have stalled though, But majority of the safeties in this years free agent class are strong safeties. Or shall i say worth while safeties are strong safeties. They will get their payday after the draft though. Hopefully we are one of the teams to pick one up.

Again, the fact that guards salaries continue to rise the way that they have runs counter to any argument that the position is not valued. As does the fact that Nelson - a guard- will be the first offensive lineman drafted this year. His position will not change his talent, or his value.[/quote]

 

[Sarge]

I think you can get one in the third and maybe the fourth

You absolutely can - no question about it.

 

[RandyOh]

Ok. I'm not yet ready to close the book on Jaylon Smith as you are.



Nobody ever said it did, did they? What it does say I say that lesser valued position are paid less , not more. Guard salaries are rising, not falling. And rising a great deal too.



Again, the fact that guards salaries continue to rise the way that they have runs counter to any argument that the position is not valued. As does the fact that Nelson - a guard- will be the first offensive lineman drafted this year. His position will not change his talent, or his value.

[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't call it closing the book on him. Just not gonna fully rely on him. With the players we have brought in for a visit, seems our coaching staff and FO is feeling the same way. Both Evans and LVE are a visit.

All positions are on the rise minus strong safety at the moment. Our 2 down Thumper in Hitchens who was one of the worst linebackers in coverage last season got a bigger deal, more guranteed money, and a bigger signing bonus then a top teir Guard in Ronald Leary in last years free agency. So im going to chalk it up to teams having cap to spend and over paying to make sure they fill the holes over teams putting much more stock and value in Guards. Heck Sammy Watkins now makes more per year then AJ Green & Julio Jones. I ain't agreeing guards value is way more now until i see most other positions values drop while guards continues to rise. Nothing more then teams using their cap space. Kirk Cousins and Nate Solder being the top paid players at QB and LT is proof of that.

 

[DBOY3141]

He was a Jerry pick. Of course it was a mistake. Not going to argue their but hes here and their is nothing we can do about it. If he can find a role on the team and do it great then yay he wasnt a total blown pick. Dont see why that way of thinking is upsetting you. Trying to force him to be what hes not at this point to try and make up for the mistake in not very smart of going about it. Look at the Seahawks. They saw they made a mistake last year taking Malik Mcdowell in the 2nd and are already releasing him. Wish we would admit our mistakes instead of giving players multiple chances.

And i made the counter to that in the draft they look at the money 5 over the rest. Teams will reach for an OT this year over a Guard. They always have and will continue. Just because the price for guard in free agency has risen on them, it doesn't mean that the price for QBs, LTs, Edge rushers, CBs, and WRs have fallen. If anything the price for most positions is on the rise due to rising cap. Safety value seems to have stalled though, But majority of the safeties in this years free agent class are strong safeties. Or shall i say worth while safeties are strong safeties. They will get their payday after the draft though. Hopefully we are one of the teams to pick one up.

Seahawks are releasing McDowell because of the ATV accident that left him with eye tramua and brain injury and he will probably never play football again. Saw a tweet, posted on Birddogs string stating that. Don't see them fixing a draft pick mistake, just bad luck on McDowell's part.

 

[RandyOh]

Seahawks are releasing McDowell because of the ATV accident that left him with eye tramua and brain injury and he will probably never play football again. Saw a tweet, posted on Birddogs string stating that. Don't see them fixing a draft pick mistake, just bad luck on McDowell's part.

Jerry wouldnt release him so quick. Would probably keep him on IR another year.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

So will a starting safety

Reid
Bates

Let's try to build a team not an OL

Thank you.

 

[4th_and_short]

So what group is being neglected then and "has to have" that 1st round pick?

Arguably there are plenty. LB, Dline, WR, TE, G, S. Depends on how the board falls. Will I be upset if Dallas takes a G in the R1? No. I agree that it needs addressed and that the OL is the strength of the team and needs to remain strong. I just think we can get a good starter later on. That’s the whole point of this thread, which you so strongly are against apparently.

 

[BigD49]

More of those pesky "facts" that you don't like, and "stats that show" the truth:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/2017.htm

Defense finished ranked 8th, offense finished 14th. But you go ahead and give unsupported opinion and I'll be the guy that supports mine with truth and facts.



What the hell does that have anything at all to do with my position?

Are you a five-year old?

Is this a tantrum?

Did you make sure to stomp your feet when you typed it?

This has to sting after a while.

I've been a long-time reader of this forum and its predecessors - never took the time to post because I'm more interested in seeing what others have to say (and how it compares to my own views) than I am banging my head against a wall trying to convert people who may have different opinions than mine (as I'm sure you're aware, people seem to pretty unwilling to change their opinion these days).... and yet, I still wanted to take the time to say that your series of posts in this thread is one of the most insufferable collection of posts I've ever seen. How much better do you feel about yourself? Get you really hyped up to just be downright obnoxious?

As a father, I find it pretty embarrassing that I cannot confidently tell my children to hop on over to cowboyszone and read about our favorite team without having to worry that they'll be exposed to your level of toxicity. Take a chill pill and stop acting like you're god's gift

 

[Kaiser]

If one of Vea, Edmunds, or James were to miraculously fall to us at 19 and we don't take one of the three, I might just stop following the NFL. LOL Of course, I don't think any of the three will be there, but a guy can dream. Absent one of those three, I'd probably go with LVE or Evans. Maybe Payne. I do not want a guard or WR at # 19.

Dane Brugler has Edmunds at 15 and Vea at 27, there is a good chance both of them are there at 19 because LBs usually drop.

I wouldn't be mad about an OG at 19 because Wynn and Hernandez are listed at 19 and 20 by Brugler and he lists them as guys who could be Pro Bowlers in time - and should be if they play between Tryon and Fred (which is why I think Cooper was overrated).

But there is a small chance one of Wynn or Hernandez drops to 50 and a better than average chance that Austin Corbett is available 81. Corbett is the guy I think is the best value if he is there at 81 (Brugler rates him at 74).

 

[Stash]

Arguably there are plenty. LB, Dline, WR, TE, G, S. Depends on how the board falls. Will I be upset if Dallas takes a G in the R1? No. I agree that it needs addressed and that the OL is the strength of the team and needs to remain strong. I just think we can get a good starter later on. That’s the whole point of this thread, which you so strongly are against apparently.

My point is that it shouldn't be ruled out at #19 as this thread espouses. I hope that came across. I'm just against ruling it out entirely in the first round.

 

[Stash]

I've been a long-time reader of this forum and its predecessors - never took the time to post because I'm more interested in seeing what others have to say (and how it compares to my own views) than I am banging my head against a wall trying to convert people who may have different opinions than mine (as I'm sure you're aware, people seem to pretty unwilling to change their opinion these days).... and yet, I still wanted to take the time to say that your series of posts in this thread is one of the most insufferable collection of posts I've ever seen. How much better do you feel about yourself? Get you really hyped up to just be downright obnoxious?

As a father, I find it pretty embarrassing that I cannot confidently tell my children to hop on over to cowboyszone and read about our favorite team without having to worry that they'll be exposed to your level of toxicity. Take a chill pill and stop acting like you're god's gift

Thanks for taking the time to post.

 

[Kaiser]

- never took the time to post because I'm more interested in seeing what others have to say (and how it compares to my own views) than I am banging my head against a wall trying to convert people who may have different opinions than mine (as I'm sure you're aware, people seem to pretty unwilling to change their opinion these days)....

Your words are foreign to me, do you have a website or newsletter I can read?

Kidding, Its the nature of the Internet to talk at each other and not to each other. And Stash is fine, just passionate. There are probably a dozen posters here that I have on ignore because they add absolutely no knowledge but plenty of vitriol.

 

[4th_and_short]

Dane Brugler has Edmunds at 15 and Vea at 27, there is a good chance both of them are there at 19 because LBs usually drop.

I wouldn't be mad about an OG at 19 because Wynn and Hernandez are listed at 19 and 20 by Brugler and he lists them as guys who could be Pro Bowlers in time - and should be if they play between Tryon and Fred (which is why I think Cooper was overrated).

But there is a small chance one of Wynn or Hernandez drops to 50 and a better than average chance that Austin Corbett is available 81. Corbett is the guy I think is the best value if he is there at 81 (Brugler rates him at 74).

Ragnow could be there at 81 too. He’s a big bruiser from the same run-heavy system that The Beard came up in.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Full disclosure, I have pretty much been against a Guard in the 1st round the entire time. However, if Guard is easily the best value at 19, and it's a possibility that it could be, then I think that maybe we should think about that. If we can't trade out and none of the players we covet are available, then we should not reach. Perhaps we look at trading Martin down the road. I would hate to have to do that but honestly, maybe the circumstances are trying to show us something. Lawrence is tagged, if you want to keep Martin, then you probably need the Tag for that and then what do you do at DE? Taking a Guard might be the best way to prepare for that eventuality. Maybe you tag Martin for a few years any way, maybe you work out a long term deal with Lawrence and Irvin, maybe you draft a quality DT who can generate pressure up the middle and maybe you solidify the OL and plan for the future.

I mean, if WR is going to go into the season with what we have and if we already know that a WR is going to take time to develop, then it kinda makes sense to insure that we can run the ball and that we can protect our QB.

This is not what I ever wanted to do but maybe this is the way we should go?

 

[Stash]

Full disclosure, I have pretty much been against a Guard in the 1st round the entire time. However, if Guard is easily the best value at 19, and it's a possibility that it could be, then I think that maybe we should think about that. If we can't trade out and none of the players we covet are available, then we should not reach. Perhaps we look at trading Martin down the road. I would hate to have to do that but honestly, maybe the circumstances are trying to show us something. Lawrence is tagged, if you want to keep Martin, then you probably need the Tag for that and then what do you do at DE? Taking a Guard might be the best way to prepare for that eventuality. Maybe you tag Martin for a few years any way, maybe you work out a long term deal with Lawrence and Irvin, maybe you draft a quality DT who can generate pressure up the middle and maybe you solidify the OL and plan for the future.

I mean, if WR is going to go into the season with what we have and if we already know that a WR is going to take time to develop, then it kinda makes sense to insure that we can run the ball and that we can protect our QB.

This is not what I ever wanted to do but maybe this is the way we should go?

Thanks for being open minded about it and seeing some of the logic behind the idea.

Again, I'm not cooked in on the idea, but neither am I locked out on the idea.

Left guard is clearly a big need, and if need matches up with player quality, it makes good sense.