A Touch of Hostility... Week4

burmafrd

Well-Known Member
Messages
43,820
Reaction score
3,379
WE HAVE THE TALENT. but that is all. everything else you need to win we do not have. Coaching, fire, discipline.
 

NextGenBoys

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,252
Reaction score
1,964
burmafrd;2993195 said:
WE HAVE THE TALENT. but that is all. everything else you need to win we do not have. Coaching, fire, discipline.

There's a book out entitled "Talent is overrated"

The University of Iowa football coaching staff swears by it, and I'm starting to become a believer too.
 

TellerMorrow34

BraveHeartFan
Messages
28,358
Reaction score
5,076
Very good post Hos. very good as usual.

I agree that Denver is owed a lot more credit then they were given. Their defense does indeed seem legit. Their offense is what it is. Very, very, very average but just good enough that if they avoid mistakes and their defense plays well they'll hang in games and make a play or two.

Their O-Line was over-rated, IMO, by the people who showed up here. They didn't exactly destroy us on the ground as it was claimed they would and they didn't keep us from sacking and getting pressure on Orton. That ended, for sure, any discussion that their line is as good as the GMen or The Saints lines. They're just not.

But they were vastly more impressive than I thought they'd be. They deserved that win cause they fought like a team who believed they deserved to win. Dallas did not fight like that.

Our biggest issue, right now, is our play calling. Garrett just flat out sucks at it. Sorry but he does. We were running the ball quite effectively, and Barber was doing a very good job, and then all the sudden we quit running the ball (Only 8 run plays in the entire second half I believe I read) and for whatever reason they just quit using Barber all together. Just absolutely poor play calling, poor coaching, poor everything.
 

Seven

Messenger to the football Gods
Messages
19,301
Reaction score
9,892
great post, Hos.

Unprepared. Inferior offensive play calling. Mistake after mistake on the OL. Plays that took way too long to develope with that defense and we QUIT on the running game. I also noticed just how bad we need some speed in the receiving corp. Never have we looked so lethargic. They played with a purpose we played to get out of there. The OL was yet another group, this week, that was insufficient. Defense one week, Romo another, the entire offense the next.
I'm wondering wjhen all phases will get together and decide to play football. I keep expecting them to get pissed off and do something as a whole yet all I see is one group after another taking a week off.

I was shocked as well. We couldn't/didn't adjust to what Denver brought. Kyle Orton was better than Tony Romo. Who'd a thunk it.


BTW Hos - I was into it for $10.00. I never bet but being hounded in Denver country, I broke. 1st time ever.
 

Chocolate Lab

Run-loving Dino
Messages
37,107
Reaction score
11,449
You might be right, ABQ. Maybe something is wrong with Romo. His accuracy is one of his best attributes and it's rare for him to be that off for an entire game.
 

kmd24

Active Member
Messages
3,436
Reaction score
0
Doomsday;2992787 said:
At the first sign of trouble Garrett completely abandons the run.

I don't think Garrett abandoned the run, but all the penalties, negative runs, and sacks in the second half put us in a lot of 2nd and long and 3rd and long situations.

If we had more success running, I think we would have been able to keep running. Denver took the running game and Witten away, and Romo and the receivers couldn't get the job done.
 

windward

NFL Historian
Messages
18,681
Reaction score
4,533
yep it's one of the myths that has been propagated here that things were exactly the same when Parcells was here. Similarities, sure but a lot of our close losses were due to lack of talent or VinnybQuincy or Bledsoe screwing things up.

wileedog;2993133 said:
I don't think so at all.

We never had a Parcells team get the ball run down their throat by a bad team because they didn't understand their run blitzes.

We never had at LEAST 1 WR per game run the wrong route, so much so that that QB barely knows where they are going to be.

We never had a secondary get creamed because they hadn't practiced enough man-to-man coverage schemes. They never missed tackles with such alarming consistency and with such utter crap technique.

We never had the offense spend 20+ seconds every single play coming out of the huddle just trying to get lined up right - no wonder they keep running the wrong routes, they're not even sure where they are supposed to be.

Parcells had some bad game plans in his time here, but I can't imagine him coming up with two fade patterns from the 1 yard line or putting the game on the line challenging Champ Bailey with Sam friggin Hurd.

Parcells team's could shoot themselves in the foot with the best of them, but usually with a bad penalty or simply poorly executed play. They were (and still are) a dumb team.

This team is a poorly coached, poorly prepared and fundamentally unsound football team. That and some talent makes you a .500 team that goes nowhere in January.
 

Dodger

Indomitable
Messages
4,216
Reaction score
43
Here are the issues that I see:

1) Romo isn't Romo.

I don't know what exactly his problem is, but he has one, that's for sure. He has been inaccurate, hesitant, and he's lost that feel he once had in the pocket. Even worse, he's not finding the open receiver. Several times yesterday I noticed open receivers on replays that Romo didn't see. I thought getting rid of Owens was supposed to allow him to find the open man, but he looks worse now than he did when Owens was here.

Is it a confidence problem? Has he been coached too much? Does he now fear the interceptions so much that he's trying not to throw the pick more than trying to complete the pass? I have no idea, but something needs to change soon.

Also, is it just me, or does anyone else think that one of Romo's "problems" is that he doesn't hate to lose enough? Obviously, he loves to compete and have fun, but if he's losing, he just kind of accepts it. He might not like it, but he doesn't really hate it, at least from what I've seen, anyway.

During the Chargers/Steelers game last night, did you notice Rivers on the sideline as the Steelers where piling on the Chargers?

Rivers wasn't sitting. He wasn't pouting. He was standing and watching the game. He looked focused and ready, like he couldn't wait to get back into the game and move the Charger offense down the field.

And what did he do? He helped make it a game again.

And Brady against the Ravens? Oh yeah, he was pissed...yelling on the sidelines. Not that yelling is the answer. I only mention this because if you look at these guys, you can tell right away that they have a losing-is-worse-than-dying attitude; they absolutely will not settle for less than 100% effort from their team-mates and themselves. Romo? It's hard to tell, but maybe his "if that's the worst thing to happen to me" quote isn't that far off the mark after all.

I do really like Romo, but you know, just once I'd like to see him prowling the sidelines, pumping up his offensive line, scowling, impatient to get back into the game and lead his team.

But...I guess that's just not who he is.

2) Play calling is suspect.

I realize that yesterday there were only 9 seconds left in the game with no timeouts, but I find it very hard to believe that our best play in that situation is a slant to Hurd against Bailey...twice.

Excuse me? Where was Witten? Bennett? Seems to me that anyone else but Hurd vs. Bailey would have been a better option. Hell, a delayed draw to Barber would have been a better call.

And what happened to the running game in the 2nd half? 42 passes and 25 runs. Haven't we already seen this story? Romo is struggling and they ask him to throw even MORE when the running game was actually not that bad. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

3) This team has no killer instinct.

Time and time again we've watched as one or all parts of this team just seem to power down and go into standby mode or something. They get a lead and just constantly find ways to squander it. If it's not a bad pass from Romo it's bound to be a 15 yard penalty at the worst possible time. Failing those, there's always the obligatory turnover to get the other team right back into the game giving us another week of debating whether this is the fault of the coaching staff or if these players really are just dumb as rocks.

Ugh.
 

casmith07

Attorney-at-Zone
Messages
31,538
Reaction score
9,312
Hostile;2992578 said:
I don't know what was worse, my turtle slow Internet connection for 3 quarters, the Internet crashing with 12 minutes left in the game, the loss, or the weekly fan meltdown. Well, actually I was fortunate to be without Internet for several hours so the last one I didn't have to deal with.

14-2, 2-14, or any record in between those two, I have decided to refuse to get all strung out and upset about this team, because there is nothing I can do about it. I don't believe in the billboard ideas and never will. I also don't believe chirping about it does myself any good or anyone else either. Some will say that means I am just being optimistic. That would entail missing the fact that I wrote 2-14 in the first line of the paragraph. I'm used to that kind of thinking any more.

That said, I'll begin the most painful critique of the season.

Tony, Tony, Tony. You nearly got Roy Williams killed. Man that was a great hit. If it had not been on one of our players I would have really loved it. As it is I only begrudgingly love it. Give credit to Denver, their Defense is better than I expected. After a lousy 1st quarter they turned it on for the next 3 quarters. I tip my hat to them on a great game. I owe someone 5 bucks this morning when I get to the job site. That's gonna suck.

How in the world after Brooking makes a stop like that on 4th down can the Offense be on cruise control and play flat? I know the QB was rushed and throwing high, but how does the O-line forget to block well? I don't understand that. I big play is supposed to fire a team up, not calm them down. There was no fire yesterday. Maybe it was the altitude, maybe it's the fact our 2 losses are to undefeated teams who are simply better. I hate to admit that last line because I think this team has promise.

Unfulfilled promise is almost a proverb. We're still averaging 6.0 yards per carry and still the #3 ranked rushing Offense, but yesterday was a letdown by the O-line and the running attack with one exception. Barber's TD was all heart and effort. Where was that the entire game?

It took too long to get Witten involved and I think this team is better when Defenses have to account for him early. Dawkins had a blanket on him all day. Man oh man, did we ever go after Champ Bailey. The problem is we never got it over on him. He made a great INT on the play where Austin and Tony weren't on the same page. We attacked him. I think I heard them say 16 times. Unreal.

The best play I saw from Dallas other than Barber's TD was Jenkins TD saving bat down of a pass to Marshall. Then Marshall comes back at the end of the game and makes up for it big time. I thought Newman was going to get that pass. Not sure if he time it wrong or lost footing or what, but Marshall made one hell of a play.

I guess what it boils down to is I give more credit to Denver than I felt I would ever have to. I won't lie, I had them as a 4-12 to 6-10 team after their off season meltdown. It's only right and fair that I give them the credit they do deserve. They flat out outplayed us. There is nothing else that can be said about it. It was nothing like the Giants game where they needed 4 turnovers to win by a mere 2 points after a dogfight. Not this time. Denver simply never gave up and we never got going because they didn't give up. No excuses necessary.

Crow doesn't taste like chicken.

Great post, Hos. There's not much here that I disagree with, but if you go back and look at the Marshall play, Newman was pushed/pulled by Marshall for separation. If he plays straight up, maybe Newman gets a hand on the ball or even a pick the way it was lofted up. Still have to give credit to Marshall for making a great play, though.

I don't know about you either, but I'm ready to see what this offense can do with Williams, Crayton, and Ogletree in the game...just to see. If he can't make anything happen by all means put Austin back in at #3, but there's no way this group couldn't get open all day.

Of course, it didn't help that their front 7 was in Romo's jock all game...Flozell looked like an NFL Europe player out there yesterday.

Hats off to Denver -- as I told some folks at work today, it looks like their defense is for real.
 

Maikeru-sama

Mick Green 58
Messages
14,548
Reaction score
6
NextGenBoys;2993174 said:
I think, point blank, this was one of those games that opened all of our eyes.

We're simply not as good of a team as we thought we were.

It hurts to say, but maybe the 8-8 and 9-7 predictions were more accurate than the 11-5 or 10-6.

It's a long season, but man. 2-2? We're a .500 ballclub plain and simple.

I disagree.

The game only served as an epiphany to those who bought into the "Super Bowl/NFC Championship or bust" talk.

Also, if you think about it, really, the only game thought most people thought we could lose was the Giants game.

So in reality, this team is probably where they should be, with one extra loss than most would have predicted.
 

casmith07

Attorney-at-Zone
Messages
31,538
Reaction score
9,312
Maikeru-sama;2994380 said:
I disagree.

The game only served as an epiphany to those who bought into the "Super Bowl/NFC Championship or bust" talk.

Also, if you think about it, really, the only game thought most people thought we could lose was the Giants game.

So in reality, this team is probably where they should be, with one extra loss than most would have predicted.

We should have won the Giants game. Interceptions off the tight end's foot?? Come on!

We should be 3-1, but I'll take 2-2 dropping two games to two 4-0 teams, at this stage in the season. If this were Week 9 or 10 there might be reason for moderate panic.
 

Maikeru-sama

Mick Green 58
Messages
14,548
Reaction score
6
casmith07;2994388 said:
We should have won the Giants game. Interceptions off the tight end's foot?? Come on!

We should be 3-1, but I'll take 2-2 dropping two games to two 4-0 teams, at this stage in the season. If this were Week 9 or 10 there might be reason for moderate panic.

No, we should be 2-2.

The Giants and Denver are 4-0 for a reason.

The Cowboys are 2-2 for a reason.

At the end of the day, we didn't make enough plays to win the ball game and no would've/could've scenario is going to change that.
 

Doomsday

Rising Star
Messages
20,225
Reaction score
16,868
Romo hanging his head is way over blown, he constantly drives this team down the field in the 4th quarter for go ahead scores. I had no doubt in my mind he was going to move us down the field with 1:47 left in the game. He cant run the routes, throw the ball and catch it. Some one else on this team needs to step up and help him out.

I dont care what his posture is compared to others, the results are the same.
 

casmith07

Attorney-at-Zone
Messages
31,538
Reaction score
9,312
I think one of Romo's problems is that he's got to have a short memory -- the head hanging lasts a little long for him.

Then again nobody kills Brady when he has a pouty face on the sidelines, but Super Bowls = pass.
 

Maikeru-sama

Mick Green 58
Messages
14,548
Reaction score
6
burmafrd;2993195 said:
WE HAVE THE TALENT. but that is all. everything else you need to win we do not have. Coaching, fire, discipline.

It would be foolish for someone to try to make the claim that we don't have the talent.

We have as much talent as the Giants do.

But like Colin Cowherd was saying, the only difference is that we don't have the structure and discipline that places like Pittsburgh and New York have.
 

Doomsday

Rising Star
Messages
20,225
Reaction score
16,868
Maikeru-sama;2994422 said:
It would be foolish for someone to try to make the claim that we don't have the talent.

We have as much talent as the Giants do.

But like Colin Cowherd was saying, the only difference is that we don't have the structure and discipline that places like Pittsburgh and New York have.

And we never will with Jerry making all the decisions.

We need a strong head coach.
 

TNCowboy

Double Trouble
Messages
10,702
Reaction score
3,213
In preseason, everyone said when the Raiders took it to us that they were much improved. The Raiders -a month in- are circling the toilet once again.

Then when Dallas handled Tennessee's starters, it was to many an affirmation of how good the Cowboys were. Tennessee is showing how big of a fluke last season was and is 0-4.

When we got to week 1, fan after fan lauded Tampa Bay for the fight they put up against the Cowboys, and posted that "TB is much better than we thought". Of course, they're still winless, only coming close against the hapless Commanders.

And now, it's Denver's turn. What will folks be saying two months from now when the Broncs aren't even in the wild card chase?
 

Maikeru-sama

Mick Green 58
Messages
14,548
Reaction score
6
Doomsday;2994426 said:
And we never will with Jerry making all the decisions.

We need a strong head coach.

We need more than that.

We need Jerry Jones to take a step back and allow his Head Coaches to hold players accountable.

Once this is done, we need a strong coach that can provide Structure, Discipline, Leadership and Chemistry.

This is what I think is going on at Valley Ranch, which is an atmosphere that is familiar to most of the people who work.

You have a leader, Wade Phillips, who hasn't been offered a contract extension and everyone on the team knows he is gone after this season.

You have a leader-in-waiting, Jason Garrett, who was hired directly by the man who signs the paycheck and there is no doubt he can walk into Jerry Jones' office at anytime, if he is upset with something.

Can any of you imagine reporting to a Boss that you know isn't going to be around all that long and having him try to tell you what to do?

Can any of you imagine having the next Boss working right above and we all know where your loyalties are going to lie.

Finally, just imagine trying to manage an employee who was hired directly by your boss and who can go directly to your boss if there are any issues.

This is the type of atmosphere we have at Valley Ranch and I believe Dan Reeves and Terence Newman has at least hinted at this.
 

AdamJT13

Salary Cap Analyst
Messages
16,583
Reaction score
4,529
ABQCOWBOY;2993092 said:
Watch Romo throw the ball. Everything sails on him. I don't know if he's physically hurt or if his mechanics are just poor because of injuries that he's sustained but he can't throw the football downfield without the ball sailing on him. He had open guys all over the place and he missed them badly. We could have won the game yesterday if we had simply been able to throw accurately. Something is wrong with him. I'm convinced of it.

I doubt anything is physically wrong with him. I'm guessing the altitude had more to do with passes sailing on him. That should be an easy adjustment if you know it's going to be a factor, but it looked like he never adjusted.
 
Top