A Trade Down Mock

burmafrd

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what is really sad is how few 2nd and 3rd rd picks we have had that are starters.
Our number of 4th rd starters equal our total 2nd and third rd starters. That frankly is a huge indictment of our drafts overall. We bust on way too many 2nd and 3rd rd picks.
 

TheCount

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Hostile;3757980 said:
It could also be McElroy on the PS though. I just want to develop QBs and benefit from it.

Fair enough, I just don't want to be in a position where we're forced to risk McGee right now.
 

proline

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I don't watch college football so I'm just going of one youtube highlight video .... but I wasn't impressed at all with Sturdivant against Florida State. He does make good reads, but he doesn't do much when he gets there. He is not a hitter, he doesn't even look like a very sure tackler. I also don't think he changes directions very fluidly. JMO, and as I said it's based on one video.
 

Hostile

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TheCount;3758031 said:
Fair enough, I just don't want to be in a position where we're forced to risk McGee right now.
What risk? If McElroy is better how is that bad for the Cowboys?

I always want a QB on the PS and 3 on the roster if at all possible. I want to be developing guys who if they cannot eventually start for us can net us draft picks if they do develop.
 

dogberry

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Amen, no more of what happened after Danny White and Troy were done.

Did we go through a dozen qbs after Troy?

Leaf, Stoerner, Wright, Carter, Hutchinson, Testaverde, Henson, Bledsoe...?

8

(I cheated -- looked at Hos' History pages)
 

Hostile

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dogberry;3758115 said:
Amen, no more of what happened after Danny White and Troy were done.

Did we go through a dozen qbs after Troy?

Leaf, Stoerner, Wright, Carter, Hutchinson, Testaverde, Henson, Bledsoe...?

8

(I cheated -- looked at Hos' History pages)
It was way too many.
 

TheCount

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Hostile;3758085 said:
What risk? If McElroy is better how is that bad for the Cowboys?

I always want a QB on the PS and 3 on the roster if at all possible. I want to be developing guys who if they cannot eventually start for us can net us draft picks if they do develop.


I thought I explained what I meant by risk... to which you responded that McElroy would be on the PS, to which I said fair enough? :confused:
 

Hostile

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TheCount;3758138 said:
I thought I explained what I meant by risk... to which you responded that McElroy would be on the PS, to which I said fair enough? :confused:
Could be. If he is better than McGee it is a good thing. At least I see it that way.
 

28 Joker

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I like the way you addressed the offensive line in rounds 2 and 3. You added a SS from Alabama. That was a good address. You drafted a QB and ILB. That was good. I like the fact that you let Davis and Colombo go. I don't like Kosier at RG. I think that is a bad fit. He's not big or strong enough over there, I don't think. Kosier has been hurt two out of the last three years (and will be 33), and Romo was knocked out for the year when Kosier wasn't in there. He was hurt playing center and missed time due to injury. I'd upgrade Kosier with Leroy Harris. He will play at 27 next year, and he will not cost a mint to sign. He's athletic and stronger than Kosier. JMO Logan Mankins is going to cost a mint, and I don't see Dallas putting that much money in a guard. JMO It's hard to justify giving Mankins more money than Leonard Davis when Davis needs to be replaced now. Plus, Marco Rivera didn't exactly turn out too well.

Obviously, I don't like taking a CB in round 1 for several well documented reasons. This team is hurting up the middle. I'd rather have a B.J. Raiji type of NT or DE or S if you go defense.

First, Terence Newman has at least two more prime years left, imso. He's earned the right to continue to start, and that shouldn't even be up for debate, imso. The Giants didn't move Corey Webster to safety or cut him when their secondary and defense was in shambles.

They added multiple safeties and defensive linemen to turn their defense around. They added pass rush in their defensive line. Patrick Peterson is a guy that some scouts say may fit better at safety. He will go in the top 6 based on his athletic ability, imo. There will be some later round CBs that you may be able to develop, and Newman gives you that luxury. I'd much rather draft an offensive or defensive linemen or even look at Cam Newton or Ryan Mallett than draft a CB. I wouldn't trade down, either. I'd pick. The 2009 trade down in round 2 wasn't smart. Two offensive linemen were on the board.

Second
, Mike Jenkins has really struggled this season. Although, he's played better lately. Newman played very well during the first half of the season when this team was playing their normal man to man coverage. He was a little banged up this year, but Asomugha missed at least one game this year. Newman battled through it.

Jenkins' dive at that out route to DeSean Jackson wasn't the smart play in a 20 to 20 game. Of course, Gerald Sensabaugh bit on a play fake and Alan Ball fell down. The safeties have hung both the CBs out to dry all year long. It's documented for the people who don't like hearing it. I could go on and on and on about the poor safety play and how it has affected both starting CBs, who were both in the Pro Bowl last year.

I just don't think you want a rookie starting at CB besides a guy who has struggled all year long with his technique. Jenkins has played better recently. He has improved, but he didn't exactly light it up against Reggie Wayne. Although, he got the last laugh. Newman is very steady and consistent and he has proven that during his entire career.

I think some 5 technique ends will rise. I wasn't big on the big one from Alabama (Darius), but he's probably going pretty high. I'm sure Garrett will talk to Saban. I'd consider him for sure. This team is hurting at DE bad, real bad. They will let Marcus Spears and Jason Hatcher walk for sure, imo. Bowen is the guy they will want to keep. Plus, Igor Olshansky has been bad, and he called out your guy Garrett in the press when Phillips had the job. If Igor Olshansky is here next year, I'll be shocked. Plus, he likes to dance when he's getting thrown around like a rag doll and his team is getting embarrassed.

If you can get your guy Peterson. I'd say fine, but other than Peterson, there really isn't a guy that I'd have to have in round one at CB. Plus, Peterson translates to safety more than Newman due to his size. Dallas isn't going to be in position to get him.

Thanks again for the avatar fix up.

Hostile, you have to stand in there and draft on the offensive or defensive line. A.J. Green, Cam Newton, Ryan Mallett...You have to watch or consider them, too. IMO

A.J. Green is better than any CB in this draft.
 

realtick

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41gy#;3758161 said:
First, Terence Newman has at least two more prime years left, imso. He's earned the right to continue to start, and that shouldn't even be up for debate, imso. The Giants didn't move Corey Webster to safety or cut him when their secondary and defense was in shambles.

I don't think T-New has anywhere close to "at least two more prime years left."

Newman is going to be 33 at the start of next season, he's also shown to be wearing down physically with injuries the past couple of seasons.

I think folks are a little misguided when they say things like Newman is having a pretty good season. I really think that notion is born out of the fact that our cornerback play in general has been autrocious this season, and Newman has just been the best of the worst.

Regardless, there is nothing precluding drafting a cornerback high and keeping Newman for another season (or two...). I think folks get caught up with thinking that drafting a player high means they need to immediately become starters.
 

CCBoy

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Hos, I'll just rest the accusations of plagerism brought on site by the same, as well....and won't even mention a lie detector testing involved. You didn't lose credability on an open ended staement that was going to merit of a generalized consideration. I'm not overly corrective when trying to pinpoint collegiate accomplishment and 'supposedly' transfereable merit as well. I'll leave issue there...
 

burmafrd

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The Cowboys have been incredibly lucky at QB. Eddie Lebaron handed off to Don Meredith who handed off to Craig Morton then to Roger then To Danny- a continuous series of good to great QBs. Then a few years from Danny to Troy; and that did not make too much difference since teh whole team had to rebuild. The only real bad times at QB came from Troy to Tony. Show me any other franchise who has had as consistently good to great QB as the boys have had.
 

Hostile

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burmafrd;3758294 said:
The Cowboys have been incredibly lucky at QB. Eddie Lebaron handed off to Don Meredith who handed off to Craig Morton then to Roger then To Danny- a continuous series of good to great QBs. Then a few years from Danny to Troy; and that did not make too much difference since teh whole team had to rebuild. The only real bad times at QB came from Troy to Tony. Show me any other franchise who has had as consistently good to great QB as the boys have had.
Johnny Unitas, Bert Jones, and Peyton Manning.
 

realtick

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Y.A. Tittle to John Brodie to Jim Plunkett/Steve DeBerg (bit of a hiccup) to Joe Montana to Steve Young to Jeff Garcia. Now the 49ers are going through the lean years...
 

CCBoy

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realtick;3758614 said:
Y.A. Tittle to John Brodie to Jim Plunkett/Steve DeBerg (bit of a hiccup) to Joe Montana to Steve Young to Jeff Garcia. Now the 49ers are going through the lean years...

Realtick, can you recall watching a Classic Y.A. Tittle matchup against a Johnny Unitas, who succeeded him at Baltimore? The Giants against the Colts...man, and throw in Bart Starr, maybe some Fran Tarkenton and I'm yearning for that timeline to bleep up and show the Dallas Cowboys in their infacy. Now, who was the Detroit QB that was quite a tosser about then? Oh yes, Bobby Layne and the following curse to Detroit. Kind of waxed the more recent clamor around the Chicago Cubs...but a decline in San Francisco hit about the time that the franchise ownership was dipping into illegal funds and payment methods. They as a franchise had to come clean, but the jolt upon play after that hasn't recovered yet.
 

realtick

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CCBoy;3758918 said:
Realtick, can you recall watching a Classic Y.A. Tittle matchup against a Johnny Unitas, who succeeded him at Baltimore? The Giants against the Colts...man, and throw in Bart Starr, maybe some Fran Tarkenton and I'm yearning for that timeline to bleep up and show the Dallas Cowboys in their infacy. Now, who was the Detroit QB that was quite a tosser about then? Oh yes, Bobby Layne and the following curse to Detroit. Kind of waxed the more recent clamor around the Chicago Cubs...but a decline in San Francisco hit about the time that the franchise ownership was dipping into illegal funds and payment methods. They as a franchise had to come clean, but the jolt upon play after that hasn't recovered yet.

I wasn't fortunate enough to see guys like Tittle, Brodie, Unitas, Layne and Starr play. It would have been something to see some of those pioneers play.

My earliest memories go back to Danny White (unfortunately Gary Hogeboom, Steve Pelluer, etc.), Joe Montana, Dave Krieg, Jim MacMahon, Marc Wilson, et cetera.

You're exactly right with what happened with the 49ers and Eddy DeBartelo. His passion for his team would rival Jerry Jones, but the guy had an addictive personality and got caught up in some shady stuff outside the franchise. He still comes on the radio here in the Bay Area occasionally to talk about the current team.
 

casmith07

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dogberry;3758115 said:
Amen, no more of what happened after Danny White and Troy were done.

Did we go through a dozen qbs after Troy?

Leaf, Stoerner, Wright, Carter, Hutchinson, Testaverde, Henson, Bledsoe...?

8

(I cheated -- looked at Hos' History pages)

Cunningham.
 

casmith07

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burmafrd;3758294 said:
The Cowboys have been incredibly lucky at QB. Eddie Lebaron handed off to Don Meredith who handed off to Craig Morton then to Roger then To Danny- a continuous series of good to great QBs. Then a few years from Danny to Troy; and that did not make too much difference since teh whole team had to rebuild. The only real bad times at QB came from Troy to Tony. Show me any other franchise who has had as consistently good to great QB as the boys have had.

Green Bay has done pretty well over the years.
 

Plankton

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realtick;3758614 said:
Y.A. Tittle to John Brodie to Jim Plunkett/Steve DeBerg (bit of a hiccup) to Joe Montana to Steve Young to Jeff Garcia. Now the 49ers are going through the lean years...

You could throw Frankie Albert in at the beginning of this. The 49ers have a pretty good lineage of QBs in their history.

The Browns had Otto Graham, George Ratterman, Frank Ryan, Bill Nelsen, Mike Phipps, Brian Sipe, Gary Danielson, Bernie Kosar, Vinny Testaverde, and then they fell off the cliff.

The Rams had Bob Waterfield, Norm Van Brocklin, Frank Ryan, Roman Gabriel, James Harris, Ron Jaworski, Pat Haden, Vince Ferragamo and Jim Everett.

The Raiders had Daryle Lamonica, Ken Stabler and Jim Plunkett (I'll leave out Dan Pastorini and Marc Wilson).
 

JPM

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Hos, how do you compare O'Dowd to Wisniewski ? To be honest I haven't seen USC this year.
 
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