After further review a week later, Refs stole game from Cowboys vs Packers once again

[Vtwin]

Not correcting a "flaw" that might benefit you is one thing. Ordering your referee henchmen to "do in" a specific team/player/coach is another and this is what a lot of people here are claiming, including this very thread. I simply just want to know what those behind the scene meetings are like specifically but I never get them.

It's very difficult to have any discussion with you since you consistently lump everyone together as "You people", or "a lot of people here..."

I speak for no one but myself and no one speaks for me other than myself.

You may have had much different life experiences than I have which have lead to you this Pollyannaish world view. I have been in meetings where a level of corruption has occurred for far less gain than is at stake with the money printing machine that is the NFL. Decisions made that are justified by those in power, but directly conflict with the stated policies and procedures that are expected to be followed by the hundreds of people which will be impacted. Hundreds of people who never learn the truth and are led to believe that everything is on the up and up. I've witnessed the manipulation used to try and pacify those who can see through it but can't "prove" it. Manipulation that goes directly against the stated goals of the organization and the expectations of the peons that make up the organization. Much of the time the decision makers rationalize this by convincing themselves it's for the greater good. I'm not talking about one isolated incident involving one entity. I've witnessed it on some level from the family dinner table to the corporate conference room and everything in between. Both history and current events are littered with examples.

But the NFL is immune to what has been proven over centuries to be a fundamental aspect of basic human nature.

Those gamble responsibly PSAs they broadcast every week sure are nice, though.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

You missed the point, likely by choice.

Your bias acts as a set of blinders. Goodell could hand the officials envelopes at midfield right before opening kickoff and you would excuse it away. If an official did come out and blow the whistle you would excuse it away as sour grapes, it's only one, just another conspiracy theorist.

Your personal bias towards the thing you have devoted your entire life to is greater than the bias you accuse others of having. I get it. It has to be difficult to acknowledge the thing you have devoted your life to has evolved to what it is.

I can apply that to myself. I don't watch 75 hours of football on a Saturday like you do, but I am a lifelong fan who watches whatever game is on, records the games I receive if can't watch it etc etc etc. I am a a serious, lifelong fan of the game itself, as well as the Cowboys. I understand how that lifelong bond, the associations with family, friends, holidays is very hard to walk away from. That is the single biggest reason I still watch. I can honestly say that I'm hanging on by a thread. If not for the 50+ years of investment and all the good memories that come with it, I'd be gone. As it is I don't base my TV provider on accessibility to the games anymore, I ditched Sirius, which I was only keeping around for the NFL channel and access to the game broadcasts. I'm absolutely as less "all in" as I've ever been.

I get it man. We start our fandom careers at very young ages. We are conditioned throughout our childhoods to love the team, and the game. It is very hard for me to let it go. I absolutely DON'T want to see things like I do. I absolutely DO want to continue on with something I've enjoyed for my entire life. But man..... it gets harder and harder to not see what's there to see.

Maybe I need better blinders........

No...the nfl is pristine lily white. They would never make questionable decisions or leading statements that would tarnish their outstanding quality reputation.
They would certainly take their own investigators word , and law enforcement....on player suspensions....since they are so straight arrow.

​

 

[MarcusRock]

Of course not all recalls are business decisions. Knowing releasing defective product is. Hard to prove but its been done.
https://www.investopedia.com/the-5-largest-u-s-product-liability-cases-4773418

So the recall is not the business decision, it's not acknowledging knowing of issues that lead to some of them.

 

[MarcusRock]

It's very difficult to have any discussion with you since you consistently lump everyone together as "You people", or "a lot of people here..."

I speak for no one but myself and no one speaks for me other than myself.

You may have had much different life experiences than I have which have lead to you this Pollyannaish world view. I have been in meetings where a level of corruption has occurred for far less gain than is at stake with the money printing machine that is the NFL. Decisions made that are justified by those in power, but directly conflict with the stated policies and procedures that are expected to be followed by the hundreds of people which will be impacted. Hundreds of people who never learn the truth and are led to believe that everything is on the up and up. I've witnessed the manipulation used to try and pacify those who can see through it but can't "prove" it. Manipulation that goes directly against the stated goals of the organization and the expectations of the peons that make up the organization. Much of the time the decision makers rationalize this by convincing themselves it's for the greater good. I'm not talking about one isolated incident involving one entity. I've witnessed it on some level from the family dinner table to the corporate conference room and everything in between. Both history and current events are littered with examples.

But the NFL is immune to what has been proven over centuries to be a fundamental aspect of basic human nature.

Those gamble responsibly PSAs they broadcast every week sure are nice, though.

So once again, if I ask for specifics, it's "The world is bad, therefore refs and the NFL are bad. How exactly? Well, let me get back to you on that. But we know they're bad though, rest assured." Okay, but specifics were the question. Just say you have none but here's what I think could be amiss. That is not difficult.

Listen, with all this talk about "human nature," isn't also human nature to make up excuses for why your team is a perennial loser for more than 25 years to massage one's ego bruise? I'm not naive and even say I think the NFL keeps the ref problem around because it generates buzz. But I also know that I don't know if that's exactly true and have no "it looks better for my team" agenda if it's not true. The same can't be said for those in fear of getting a ribbing from the media, rivals, buds, siblings about your team being sucky. There IS incentive to create a "the dog ate my homework" boogeyman excuse then, isn't there? I'd like to hear acknowledgement of THAT aspect of human nature. But nah, the world is bad so we know the NFL is bad and are onto something. Can't tell you what, but something, and that cancels out the perceived incentive to create this machine against which our team tirelessly wars against. CONSPIRACY both softens the blow of a loss and makes a victory much more sweet because we triumphed "in spite of." But no "human nature" incentive to create that kind of a foolproof chamber to watch a game in exists, eh? Okay.

 

[Blackrain]

How is this thread 25 pages long?
Asking for multiple friends!!!

Corrupt officials manipulating the game triggers everyone.
I believe there is serious concern over this

 

[5Stars]

lol...this still going on? You guys and gals need another hobby, you can't still be this bored, right?

All this over one football play. Man oh, man...we are some stupid cowboy fans alright.

 

[Blackrain]

I’ve already walked away from season tickets and attending games . I’m more invested in my Alma Mater now , emotionally and financially.

I just am addicted to the football. And the Cowboys are my local broadcast. It’s a double edged sword now following trying to detach my emotions for the franchise I devoted so much of my life to while despising what they have become . And I have some satisfaction seeing Jethro continue to struggle returning to glory.

It’s kinda like you enjoy watching your ex wife struggle but still want to see the kids do well and not be effected too much by her dysfunction and failures . It’s a marriage gone bad . No doubt. A mixed bag of emotions .

But yea, if it’s proven that I have invested in Fake Football then I’ll be very disappointed. I guess you guys are ok with it. You believe it is and still invest in it. That’s bizarre to me .

The way I look at it now is the same way I look at a lot of things that were great and I believed in as I grew up.

It is what it is and I can't change it just like everything else we were taught to believe in that has proved to be corrupt fraudulent and even perverse.

Why should football be any different.
How many things can we name that the quality has been compromised for profit.

This team in the '70s gave me the absolute best of the best in sports and it was led by men who represented everything that was good in sports.

I look at it like I was privileged to experience what I did . How could I ever expect anything that good to last forever Now I continue to cheer the shadow of the former great team of my youth.
It's so deep and ingrained now I can't change I'm following it through to the end.

That said I'm not 100% convinced Jerry really cares about returning to glory I think his glory is making the Cowboys into the most profitable sports franchise in the world I think that means far more to him than a silver trophy with somebody else's name on it other than his and a football stuck on the top of it.

 

[MarcusRock]

How many things can we name that the quality has been compromised for profit.

Back when I was kid, my school had us sell those World's Finest Chocolate bars for fundraisers. Those things were so good back then. I tasted them lately and they are a shadow of what they used to taste like, are 1/3 the size and twice as expensive.

 

[Diehardblues]

Investigate themselves.

Certainly , just like they do players, coaches and owners conduct detrimental to the league.

 

[Diehardblues]

The way I look at it now is the same way I look at a lot of things that were great and I believed in as I grew up.

It is what it is and I can't change it just like everything else we were taught to believe in that has proved to be corrupt fraudulent and even perverse.

Why should football be any different.
How many things can we name that the quality has been compromised for profit.

This team in the '70s gave me the absolute best of the best in sports and it was led by men who represented everything that was good in sports.

I look at it like I was privileged to experience what I did . How could I ever expect anything that good to last forever Now I continue to cheer the shadow of the former great team of my youth.
It's so deep and ingrained now I can't change I'm following it through to the end.

That said I'm not 100% convinced Jerry really cares about returning to glory I think his glory is making the Cowboys into the most profitable sports franchise in the world I think that means far more to him than a silver trophy with somebody else's name on it other than his and a football stuck on the top of it.

I agree with much of this. And I’m not ruling out official corruption could occur. But if we discover these games results are altered in anyway then I’m not supporting Fake Football.

If you believe it’s already corrupt and you stay invested anyway then that’s your choice but to me there is no use discussing Fake Football seriously.

 

[Pola_pe_a]

Take the tinfoil hats off for a minute and look at the cost benefit of what you suggest. What benefit does the NFL get? Everyone acknowledges the NFL is only concerned about the bottom line so how does this help their bottom line? Now consider the potential costs of getting caught. Now that legalized gambling is involved Las Vegas would literally sue the NFL into oblivion if they got caught manipulating games. Not to mention the class action lawsuit by bettors, loss of corporate partnerships etc. And don’t forget the anti trust exemption they have which allows them to negotiate TV deals as one entity which creates a ton of leverage for the NFL. Again if they get caught manipulating games Congress would get involved and that exemption would be in a ton of jeopardy,
And let’s say there is a conspiracy to manipulate games. Do you know how many people would have to be involved AND keep their mouths shut? That alone makes this implausible.

So let’s see, on one hand a multi-leveled conspiracy involving numerous people with no real financial benefit and huge potential costs
OR
Poor officiating by humans who have to consider over 50 potential fouls while huge people fly around at high speeds.

Occums Razor

 

[Blackrain]

Back when I was kid, my school had us sell those World's Finest Chocolate bars for fundraisers. Those things were so good back then. I tasted them lately and they are a shadow of what they used to taste like, are 1/3 the size and twice as expensive.

Yep same with the girl Scout cookies just not like they used to be and much smaller

 

[Runwildboys]

No....but toyota might collude with toyota to hide the issues.
I never said owners would be involved. But if someone like jerry were....well dont people say jerry doesnt care about winning, just money a d brand?
I also never said top to bottom conspiracy. I feel something like gaining favor with Godell the jerry hater... might be possible....
Im a little surprised you guys are so adamant the nfl is lilly white.
Strange.

The zeke case is proof they arent....in my book. Along with some other weird punishment/no punishment decisions.

I'm not saying it's "lily white". But if there were any type of conspiracy, bribery, or anything of that nature, it would have to be by individual teams or owners, without the knowledge of anyone who would have their own agenda.

Do owners pay officials off to make a few calls in their favor? Maybe... I'm sure they've at least tried. But some people think the who league is scripted, which I find ridiculous, and I'm not even going to get into the reasons.

 

[Runwildboys]

Take the tinfoil hats off for a minute and look at the cost benefit of what you suggest. What benefit does the NFL get? Everyone acknowledges the NFL is only concerned about the bottom line so how does this help their bottom line? Now consider the potential costs of getting caught. Now that legalized gambling is involved Las Vegas would literally sue the NFL into oblivion if they got caught manipulating games. Not to mention the class action lawsuit by bettors, loss of corporate partnerships etc. And don’t forget the anti trust exemption they have which allows them to negotiate TV deals as one entity which creates a ton of leverage for the NFL. Again if they get caught manipulating games Congress would get involved and that exemption would be in a ton of jeopardy,
And let’s say there is a conspiracy to manipulate games. Do you know how many people would have to be involved AND keep their mouths shut? That alone makes this implausible.

So let’s see, on one hand a multi-leveled conspiracy involving numerous people with no real financial benefit and huge potential costs
OR
Poor officiating by humans who have to consider over 50 potential fouls while huge people fly around at high speeds.

Occums Razor

It's almost on the level of people who swear we never went to the moon. There's just no way it stays a secret

 

[Blackrain]

I agree with much of this. And I’m not ruling out official corruption could occur. But if we discover these games results are altered in anyway then I’m not supporting Fake Football.

If you believe it’s already corrupt and you stay invested anyway then that’s your choice but to me there is no use discussing Fake Football seriously.

In all honesty I haven't been invested in a long time. When Tom Landry was gone the Cowboys were changed as I knew them and it has never been the same.

Don't get me wrong I love the '90s team and what they did Troy and Michael Emmett and Jimmy Johnson

But no one would ever be Roger Staubach Bob Lily and Tom Landry it was just too much for anyone to ever live up to.

That was the height of my investment.

Now I cheer the uniform that Roger Staubach wore to the level that I'm capable of now.

This may sound crazy but Jerry doesn't even really rate in my consciousness as a true Dallas Cowboy. I just think of him as a businessman with a stadium that my team plays in.

I honestly don't feel like a Super bowl trophy means anything to him.
And I feel this way because no matter what he does at this state of his life he can never get the amount of credit that he wants.

I feel like Jerry wants the same credit that Tom Brady gets for winning all those Super bowls and he knows that's impossible and he can't get it so he just doesn't aspire to accomplish that goal.

But in building the most valuable sports franchise in the world that's all his.
He gets every single bit of the credit
I think that's what he aspires to That's what makes him happy and that is his true goal.

I feel if he had to compromise the integrity of the game to reach that goal he would do it

 

[Plankton]

 

[ESisback]

Back when I was kid, my school had us sell those World's Finest Chocolate bars for fundraisers. Those things were so good back then. I tasted them lately and they are a shadow of what they used to taste like, are 1/3 the size and twice as expensive.

How about Cap’n Crunch Cereal? Not near as good as it used to be! Pay more for less!

 

[Doomsday101]

Packers game 3 week ago? lol I moved on from that game and thankfully so have the Cowboys winning the 2 games after that. Many mentioned the 3 game stretch of GB, Minn and NY saying if Dallas won at least 2 of the 3 they would be in good shape, Well they won 2 of 3 and are in good shape

 

[Rockport]

It's very difficult to have any discussion with you since you consistently lump everyone together as "You people", or "a lot of people here..."

I speak for no one but myself and no one speaks for me other than myself.

You may have had much different life experiences than I have which have lead to you this Pollyannaish world view. I have been in meetings where a level of corruption has occurred for far less gain than is at stake with the money printing machine that is the NFL. Decisions made that are justified by those in power, but directly conflict with the stated policies and procedures that are expected to be followed by the hundreds of people which will be impacted. Hundreds of people who never learn the truth and are led to believe that everything is on the up and up. I've witnessed the manipulation used to try and pacify those who can see through it but can't "prove" it. Manipulation that goes directly against the stated goals of the organization and the expectations of the peons that make up the organization. Much of the time the decision makers rationalize this by convincing themselves it's for the greater good. I'm not talking about one isolated incident involving one entity. I've witnessed it on some level from the family dinner table to the corporate conference room and everything in between. Both history and current events are littered with examples.

But the NFL is immune to what has been proven over centuries to be a fundamental aspect of basic human nature.

Those gamble responsibly PSAs they broadcast every week sure are nice, though.

 

[Diehardblues]

In all honesty I haven't been invested in a long time. When Tom Landry was gone the Cowboys were changed as I knew them and it has never been the same.

Don't get me wrong I love the '90s team and what they did Troy and Michael Emmett and Jimmy Johnson

But no one would ever be Roger Staubach Bob Lily and Tom Landry it was just too much for anyone to ever live up to.

That was the height of my investment.

Now I cheer the uniform that Roger Staubach wore to the level that I'm capable of now.

This may sound crazy but Jerry doesn't even really rate in my consciousness as a true Dallas Cowboy. I just think of him as a businessman with a stadium that my team plays in.

I honestly don't feel like a Super bowl trophy means anything to him.
And I feel this way because no matter what he does at this state of his life he can never get the amount of credit that he wants.

I feel like Jerry wants the same credit that Tom Brady gets for winning all those Super bowls and he knows that's impossible and he can't get it so he just doesn't aspire to accomplish that goal.

But in building the most valuable sports franchise in the world that's all his.
He gets every single bit of the credit
I think that's what he aspires to That's what makes him happy and that is his true goal.

I feel if he had to compromise the integrity of the game to reach that goal he would do it

It’s been very frustrating with Jethro but ultimately he’s just the temporary key holder of my fav local team.