Aikman or Cunningham

[GTaylor]

I'll compare em this way,

Insert both (At their prime) into FA and let every team pick which one they'd prefer (Assuming every team needed a QB and money was no object).

How often would Cunnigham have been picked over Aikman?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I'll compare em this way,

Insert both (At their prime) into FA and let every team pick which one they'd prefer (Assuming every team needed a QB and money was no object).

How often would Cunnigham have been picked over Aikman?

But you are missing part of the question here.

It is not who was better so much as the question was if you put Troy on the Eagles and Randall on the Cowboys...THEN who would do better.

I still say that Randall would do better due to coaching and talent and Troy would be hurting do to Buddy Ryans lack of care on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[Hoov]

But you are missing part of the question here.

It is not who was better so much as the question was if you put Troy on the Eagles and Randall on the Cowboys...THEN who would do better.

I still say that Randall would do better due to coaching and talent and Troy would be hurting do to Buddy Ryans lack of care on the offensive side of the ball.

Brain, is this one of those times when you are playing devils advocate

True Ryan pretty much ran a wicked defense and then let cunningham.... go make plays.

Still it is always hard to compare what one player would do if in a different circumstance/situation. it's like looking back on your own life and saying, if i had never moved from here to there how would my life had been different. or if i took that job in stead of this one, if i married that person instead of this one and so on. you would have met different people, made different friends, lost some opportunities, gained other opportunities. There's just too many intangibles.

I think all nfl players are very talented, getting the right mix of players and coaches together is what sets one team high enough above the others to win it all.

Troy's first year with the Boys, well they werent such a great team on O or D. They did improve and get a lot of talented players together over the course of his career. As for coaching, Norv seemed to be an offensive genius, though he hasn't does as well with other teams so i have to think that Troy had a lot to do with why Norv's game plan being so successful.

I dont buy that the eagles team was devoid of talent when randall was there. would randall have done as well as troy in dallas. well basing on the fact that randall and aikman had different things they were good or bad at, they would have had a different playbook so who knows what would have happened.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Brain, is this one of those times when you are playing devils advocate

True Ryan pretty much ran a wicked defense and then let cunningham.... go make plays.

Still it is always hard to compare what one player would do if in a different circumstance/situation. it's like looking back on your own life and saying, if i had never moved from here to there how would my life had been different. or if i took that job in stead of this one, if i married that person instead of this one and so on. you would have met different people, made different friends, lost some opportunities, gained other opportunities. There's just too many intangibles.

I think all nfl players are very talented, getting the right mix of players and coaches together is what sets one team high enough above the others to win it all.

Troy's first year with the Boys, well they werent such a great team on O or D. They did improve and get a lot of talented players together over the course of his career. As for coaching, Norv seemed to be an offensive genius, though he hasn't does as well with other teams so i have to think that Troy had a lot to do with why Norv's game plan being so successful.

I dont buy that the eagles team was devoid of talent when randall was there. would randall have done as well as troy in dallas. well basing on the fact that randall and aikman had different things they were good or bad at, they would have had a different playbook so who knows what would have happened.

Well I thought it was a given that it is all speculation because it never happened and we could never really know how it would turn out.

I just think because of HC Ryan on the eagles that Troy would have been left to fend for himself, where as Jimmy and Norv surrounded troy with a great O-Line, one of the best backs in NFL history, one of the best WRs in NFL history and a pretty good TE.

When all is said and done Larry Allen, Emmitt Smith and probably Irvin will be in the hall of fame.

Can you name an eagles player on offense that played with Randall that will make the hall of fame?

Just something to think about.

 

[GTaylor]

But you are missing part of the question here.

It is not who was better so much as the question was if you put Troy on the Eagles and Randall on the Cowboys...THEN who would do better.

I still say that Randall would do better due to coaching and talent and Troy would be hurting do to Buddy Ryans lack of care on the offensive side of the ball.

The problem is Heavy is using this as his basis for saying one is better, to me that's an inaccurate and unfair way to compare two different players. Peyton Manning would be poor in the Eagles late 80s offense, would Brady have done any better?? If not than going by Heavy's logic Cunningham is a better QB than these two guys, yet who would choose him over Brady or Manning for their QB?

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't think Cunningham could run Norv Turners offense where accuracy and timing was a must. Teams found out if they did not chase Cunningham around and forced him to throw from the pocket his accuracy went way down. Cunningham was great at running around letting the play break down and when the DB would come up to make a play against him he would loft a deep ball down field but Cunningham was never a guy who could stand out there and pick you apart. Granted I don't think Troy would have faired well under Buddy Ryan either

 

[Hoov]

I don't think Cunningham could run Norv Turners offense where accuracy and timing was a must. Teams found out if they did not chase Cunningham around and forced him to throw from the pocket his accuracy went way down. Cunningham was great at running around letting the play break down and when the DB would come up to make a play against him he would loft a deep ball down field but Cunningham was never a guy who could stand out there and pick you apart. Granted I don't think Troy would have faired well under Buddy Ryan either

I agree with this

 

[Doomsday101]

I agree with this

Maybe the question should be who could run Norv Turners offense better Aikman or Cunningham?

 

[Hoov]

Maybe the question should be who could run Norv Turners offense better Aikman or Cunningham?

Funny how slightly altering the question seems to give a new perspective.

 

[Doomsday101]

Funny how slightly altering the question seems to give a new perspective.

True. Thing is what Norv wanted out of the QB position I don't think Cunningham could give that to him. Troy and Norv was like a hand and glove "Perfect Fit"

 

[jackrussell]

And Russell, your attempt to rationalize was the dumbest thing I've ever read.

You obviously haven't read your own post saying Jim Brown was over rated.
Or your post saying none of the greatest players come prior to the 1980's.

So tell me, what's dumber, you saying Cunningham led his team in passing yards when he was the starting QB? Or me pointing out you making his case on the obvious?

Hey, did you know Dan Mariono led his team in TD passes every year he started 10 or more games?

Yeah, dumb like that.

And quoting yourself in a post is the idiotic thing. Nobody debated it because, I'm sorry, it was inane.

Anymore informative gems like that Mr. Grasp of the Obvious?

 

[The30YardSlant]

So tell me, what's dumber, you saying Cunningham led his team in passing yards when he was the starting QB? Or me pointing out you making his case on the obvious?

Apparently, you

And it was a necessary part of the argument, as if I hadnt listed it, someone would have brought it up. It was there as a precaution and to show simply how dominant of an offensive player he was

 

[The30YardSlant]

Just as an example of Cunningham's true force on that offense, in his MVP year of 1990, he led the team in:

Passing completions
Passing yards
Passing TDs
Rushing Yards
Rushing TDs
Rushing YPC
Total offense
Total TDs

He did the same in 1988, in 1989 he was 1 rushing TD short of doing it, was the first QB in the modern era of football to do that, and he did it twice (nearly 3 times). Coincidentally, those were the 3 best years the Eagles had while he was there.

Please explain to me how he wasnt that teams offense?

And I will ask again, please, someone tell me how this does not show that Cunningham was a truely dominant offensive player? Not only does it completely destroy the allegation that he was not the teams whole offense, as jacka**russel suggested, but it proves that he was capable of things Troy could never have dreamed of.

 

[jackrussell]

Ahhh, isn't that cute. The Hitta is using asterisks to cover his curse words. How inventive.

Calling someone dumb, using curse innuendos, certainly demonstrates your inability to convey and convince others of your case, and pretty much gives us all a handle on your maturity level. Continually quoting yourself just aint gonna get it done. It's very hard to be impressed with a QB that led his team in, wha? TD passes you say? Whodda thought? LOL!!!!

Now you sleep tight little fella in your Randall C footy jammies.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Ahhh, isn't that cute. The Hitta is using asterisks to cover his curse words. How inventive.

Calling someone dumb, using curse innuendos, certainly demonstrates your inability to convey and convince others of your case, and pretty much gives us all a handle on your maturity level. Continually quoting yourself just aint gonna get it done. It's very hard to be impressed with a QB that led his team in, wha? TD passes you say? Whodda thought? LOL!!!!

Now you sleep tight little fella in your Randall C footy jammies.

No, it demonstrates my aggravation and frustration towards you, who in your infinate wisdom, seems to be one of the most ignorant people that I've ever met when it comes to sports. The very fact that your only arguement for Troy is "Randall led his team in TD passes? WOW" shows you have nothing of value to add to this discussion. It's not that he led his team in TD passes being the QB, but that he led in EVERY offensive category that shows he was that team's offense. Posting that he led in passing yards, TDs, etc is simply to convey that he did in fact lead his team in all those categories, and wasthe first QB to EVER do that in the modern era of football. Eventually, you are going to have to answer for these undisputeable facts that completely destroy your previous arguement. Each post that you try and divert attention away from these facts just makes you look like even more of a fool.

And anyone who calls someone else "little fella" on an internet message board clearly has a severe inferiority complex.

 

[blindzebra]

No, it demonstrates my aggravation and frustration towards you, who in your infinate wisdom, seems to be one of the most ignorant people that I've ever met when it comes to sports. The very fact that your only arguement for Troy is "Randall led his team in TD passes? WOW" shows you have nothing of value to add to this discussion. It's not that he led his team in TD passes being the QB, but that he led in EVERY offensive category that shows he was that team's offense. Posting that he led in passing yards, TDs, etc is simply to convey that he did in fact lead his team in all those categories, and wasthe first QB to EVER do that in the modern era of football. Eventually, you are going to have to answer for these undisputeable facts that completely destroy your previous arguement. Each post that you try and divert attention away from these facts just makes you look like even more of a fool.

And anyone who calls someone else "little fella" on an internet message board clearly has a severe inferiority complex.

I'd say someone who flies off the handle anytime someone scoffs at their nonsense is the one with the inferiority complex.

Sorry, but no way anyone can take you seriously after you called Jim Brown overrated and not one of the ten best players alltime.

Credibility rating: zip, zero, nada, zilch, nil, void.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I'd say someone who flies off the handle anytime someone scoffs at their nonsense is the one with the inferiority complex.

Sorry, but no way anyone can take you seriously after you called Jim Brown overrated and not one of the ten best players alltime.

Credibility rating: zip, zero, nada, zilch, nil, void.

Apparently, you don't even know what an inferiority complex is.... :whatever:

And I never called Jim Brown overrated, I said his numbers are skewed because of the era of football he played in. Get your facts straight. :whatever:

 

[blindzebra]

Apparently, you don't even know what an inferiority complex is.... :whatever:

And I never called Jim Brown overrated, I said his numbers are skewed because of the era of football he played in. Get your facts straight. :whatever:

I'd say there is plenty you don't know, but I'll leave it at this.

If his position as the best player ever, in most people's eye's, is skewed by the era he played in and you don't even have him in your top ten...what word describes this?



















Oh, yeah.

Overrated. You argued it for several pages, so don't even attempt to weasel out of it now.

Not that your credibility would suffer.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I'd say there is plenty you don't know, but I'll leave it at this.

If his position as the best player ever, in most people's eye's, is skewed by the era he played in and you don't even have him in your top ten...what word describes this?



















Oh, yeah.

Overrated. You argued it for several pages, so don't even attempt to weasel out of it now.

Not that your credibility would suffer.

I'm not "weaseling" out of anything. I was not arguing that he is overrated in the other thread, I said that because he played in an era when players were much slower and smaller, his numbers cannot be compared to those of Sanders, Payton and Emmitt. It isnt fair to them to say that even though they dominated in an era of much better, more athletic defenders, a guy who played in the 1960s is better. Thats like comparing Kobe Bryant to Jerry West. I never, not once, called him overrated because he was a great player, but its wrong to compare him to players 30-40 years after his time.

And we'll mark you down as one more person who, while they maintain Troy is better, can't give any good reasons or dispute those I've put forth.

 

[blindzebra]

I'm not "weaseling" out of anything. I was not arguing that he is overrated in the other thread, I said that because he played in an era when players were much slower and smaller, his numbers cannot be compared to those of Sanders, Payton and Emmitt. It isnt fair to them to say that even though they dominated in an era of much better, more athletic defenders, a guy who played in the 1960s is better. Thats like comparing Kobe Bryant to Jerry West. I never, not once, called him overrated because he was a great player, but its wrong to compare him to players 30-40 years after his time.

And we'll mark you down as one more person who, while they maintain Troy is better, can't give any good reasons or dispute those I've put forth.

Where did I give an opinion on Aikman vs Cunningham?

Your argument of eras got shot to hell.

Brown dominated in his time MUCH more than Walter, Barry or Emmitt did in their's, yet you don't bring that up.

You keep dodging the fact that if you brought a 21 year old Brown into 2005 he'd be bigger, faster and just as dominating as he was in 1960. Or is it just him that would not benefit from the advances in training which greatly improve today's players.

You also ignored this little nugget from that thread.

Mark Spitz at 45 was swimming within a fraction of a second of his world record times of 1972, did he evolve or was it that training had improved dramatically in the 20+ years?