Anti Vaxxers are stupid

[lukin2006]

I believe I recently read (Dad got Shingles this week and I have a 1 year old who hasn't had all her cp vaccine yet) the chicken pox vaccine came in 1995.

I didn't think there was a vaccines in the lates 60's. Hope you Dad is coping well...

 

[jrumann59]

I remember when I got chicken pox in the 80's. School sent me home, I went to the doctor and the doctor was confused. I had the spots but nothing else, no fever no flu like symptoms. I got a week off school for spots...

 

[DFWJC]

The chicken pox vaccine has greatly reduced the number of kids that get the disease. So it did what it was intended to do.

But getting chicken pox naturally and developing the immunity is FAR better long term.
The rate of those getting the shingles later is radically higher for those that took the vaccine vs those that got natural immunity (but had to stay home from school for a week).
In fact, shingles is becoming somewhat of an epidemic as a result of the vaccine.
Ironic
But again, the actual vaccine is doing what it was designed to do.

 

[MonsterD]

As is the most common, the alleged Flu Vaccine..I have never taken one, and never will.

do not believe a perfectly healthy person should be get flu vaccines. I do believe really young children, elderly and immune system compromised people should.

I have an a somewhat odd interpretation on flu vaccines too, as I haven't had one since I was a child, and never have had the flu but it is because most likely I was careful about exposing myself in a specific way to get immunity and overall my immune system is very very different than most. I usually go 5 years or shorter periods of time like 3 years without getting a single cold or fever. I think those who have been regularly taking the vaccinations yearly should continue to do so.

 

[Kevinicus]

The chicken pox vaccine has greatly reduced the number of kids that get the disease. So it did what it was intended to do.

But getting chicken pox naturally and developing the immunity is FAR better long term.
The rate of those getting the shingles later is radically higher for those that took the vaccine vs those that got natural immunity (but had to stay home from school for a week).
In fact, shingles is becoming somewhat of an epidemic as a result of the vaccine.
Ironic
But again, the actual vaccine is doing what it was designed to do.

I don't think this is accurate from what I have found.
There are more shingles cases today than in the past, but that rise started prior to the chicken pox vaccination. And the occurrences of shingles is in those who had chickenpox when they were younger, not those who got the vaccination.
Those who got the vaccination should (assuming it's effective) not get chickenpox and therefore never get shingles.

 

[Billyd]

I didn't think there was a vaccines in the lates 60's. Hope you Dad is coping well...

Bahahahahaha. I guess thats right if you are referring to the flu vaccine..

I was an unusual case..I lived in Thailand during the Vietnam conflict..I recieeved the military regimin for three weeks before we left..i wont tell you the year but we landed on the moon..lol..

 

[joseephuss]

The chicken pox vaccine has greatly reduced the number of kids that get the disease. So it did what it was intended to do.

But getting chicken pox naturally and developing the immunity is FAR better long term.
The rate of those getting the shingles later is radically higher for those that took the vaccine vs those that got natural immunity (but had to stay home from school for a week).
In fact, shingles is becoming somewhat of an epidemic as a result of the vaccine.
Ironic
But again, the actual vaccine is doing what it was designed to do.

The article I've read that reference studies on the matter don't support your statement. Those findings say the vaccine is not the cause of the increased rate of shingles. I think this is why "anti-vaxxers" exist. There is so much information out there. Which ones are accurate? Which ones are reputable? You happen to read one thing and I happen to read another and vice-versa. What if you read the articles I saw first and never stumbled upon the ones you did read? It might influence you. There is a lot to digest and decipher with many of us having no expertise in the matter.

 

[Billyd]

I don't think this is accurate from what I have found.
There are more shingles cases today than in the past, but that rise started prior to the chicken pox vaccination. And the occurrences of shingles is in those who had chickenpox when they were younger, not those who got the vaccination.
Those who got the vaccination should (assuming it's effective) not get chickenpox and therefore never get shingles.

THATS not true...But I understand why you would think that..What is a vaccination? A weakened version of the virus..Now..Regardles of whether you have chickenpox or not, you have been exposed to the virus in both examples..And could develop shingles either way..The virus stays dormant in your body for the rest of your life..Or not.

 

[Billyd]

I have an a somewhat odd interpretation on flu vaccines too, as I haven't had one since I was a child, and never have had the flu but it is because most likely I was careful about exposing myself in a specific way to get immunity and overall my immune system is very very different than most. I usually go 5 years or shorter periods of time like 3 years without getting a single cold or fever. I think those who have been regularly taking the vaccinations yearly should continue to do so.

LETS NOT CONFUSE THE chicken pox with the flu vaccine. I am pro vaccination but i have issues with vaccinations where multiple types are produced together like German measles, and two to three others plus the flu vaccinne..I agree though those are personal choices..I would vaccinate my children and have a very healthy 20 year old daughter to prove it!

QUESTION do you believe that the flu vaccine, and more to the point the viruses included mutate every year? Or sometimes between the time the vaccine is made, and the time flu season comes?

 

[Kevinicus]

THATS not true...But I understand why you would think that..What is a vaccination? A weakened version of the virus..Now..Regardles of whether you have chickenpox or not, you have been exposed to the virus in both examples..And could develop shingles either way..The virus stays dormant in your body for the rest of your life..Or not.

Just going by what I found (below). And as I said "assuming it's effective." If it prevents chickenpox, then they shouldn't get shingles (one comes before the other).

https://www.medicinenet.com/chicken_pox_vaccine_cause_shingles/ask.htm

https://www.webmd.com/children/vacc...responsible-for-rise-in-shingles-study-says#1

https://www.livescience.com/45804-chickenpox-vaccine-cause-shingles.html

 

[MonsterD]

LETS NOT CONFUSE THE chicken pox with the flu vaccine. I am pro vaccination but i have issues with vaccinations where multiple types are produced together like German measles, and two to three others plus the flu vaccinne..I agree though those are personal choices..I would vaccinate my children and have a very healthy 20 year old daughter to prove it!

QUESTION do you believe that the flu vaccine, and more to the point the viruses included mutate every year? Or sometimes between the time the vaccine is made, and the time flu season comes?

I would guess that even if it had mutated that it would be marginal difference nothing so radical that an innoculation who be almost completely ineffective against that strain.

 

[jrumann59]

The other thing I found interesting is the rise of hand sanitizer and other "cleanliness" things has cut down on most things but the things that get you are much more robust. My next comment is going to maybe offend people. I think society as a whole has become too "clean" and the human immune system is not under the constant barrage it used to be say 30 years ago. I am not saying live like pigs but trying to live a "sterile" life does you no favors in the long run. 30 years ago hand sanitizer and ant-bacterial this or that was very rare and nature and human biology worked together. Now I think especially among children their immune systems are not as robust and they will effect the immuno-deficient demographic in the years to come.

 

[Billyd]

Just going by what I found (below). And as I said "assuming it's effective." If it prevents chickenpox, then they shouldn't get shingles (one comes before the other).

https://www.medicinenet.com/chicken_pox_vaccine_cause_shingles/ask.htm

https://www.webmd.com/children/vacc...responsible-for-rise-in-shingles-study-says#1

https://www.livescience.com/45804-chickenpox-vaccine-cause-shingles.html

I will read these but you must understand the basis of vaccinations to understand that being exposed to the virus is the same whether or not your antibodies have been increased to mitigate the virus. WHEN you walk into be vaccinated you may or may not have any antibodies as a child..Giving you the vaccine exposes you to a weakened virus..You may not display any symptoms but you have been exposed.

 

[Billyd]

I will read these but you must understand the basis of vaccinations to understand that being exposed to the virus is the same whether or not your antibodies have been increased to mitigate the virus. WHEN you walk into be vaccinated you may or may not have any antibodies as a child..Giving you the vaccine exposes you to a weakened virus..You may not display any symptoms but you have been exposed.

This is interesting as they claim that they are tricking your body into thinking it has been exposed, when it has not..I could see this in regards to shingles before the fact, but for this to be true for chicken pox kind of goes against what I would understand as how a vaccination works..

 

[Billyd]

Something they said in the information..About 100% of the population has been exposed to the virus that causes chicken pox..Also they have a vaccination against Shingles..Thats kind of funny..Other than the fact that im one of the people that might need to be vaccinated..lolol

 

[Billyd]

IT also stated exactly what i said gents..

Although chickenpox vaccines do contain a weakened version of the live virus, which can reactivate later in life and cause shingles, this is very rare, he said. "Nearly 99 percent of children who receive the vaccine will not get chickenpoxat all,".

There is a difference between getting the chicken pox and being exposed to the virus..MY TAKE!

 

[YosemiteSam]

I remember getting chick pox when I was probably between 5 and 7 years old, but don't remember much of anything about it.

 

[Billyd]

I presumed i was vaccinated against it in the late sixties when I received the military regimin before my trip to thailand, but if what the article says is true, it may not have been the case. I

GOT the Chicken pox although a very light infection with it about 8-9 years old. SO i may have to stand corrected there..

 

[Doc50]

This is interesting as i was vacinnated and still got chicken pox...One other point with this opinion is the potential for shingles at an older age..Point is once you are exposed to the virus of chicken pox, its in your body dormant for the rest of your life....lol

You don't get exposed to live varicella virus by vaccination; it's a purified protein derivative that fools the immune system into making antibodies without any disease exposure.
Almost all modern vaccines are of this type. We might expect therefore, that if everyone gets vaccinated against varicella, we will see a steady decline in the number of Herpes Zoster (shingles) cases over time. This can be very debilitating and difficult to treat, especially in the elderly. The new Shingrix vaccine is about 95% effective.

If you get a vaccination and don't get immunity, then either the vaccine did not stimulate an adequate immune response (not enough antibodies), or the strain of virus you contracted was not covered by the vaccine you received.

That last point addresses the dilemma with influenza immunity.
Pathogenic influenza strains change every year, specifically the protein sources that are traditionally available to stimulate antibody production.
Whatever is present in southeast Asia early in the year, those are the strains that are chosen to likely appear in our hemisphere later in the year. To maximise our potential for coverage, multistrain vaccines have emerged in recent years with up to 4 strains of Influenza A&B. But still we can miss covering the predominant strain in a given area; common international travel has made this even more problematic.

Research has made some strides in the last 2 years in the development of a novel source of influenza viral protein which does not mutate or change yearly. It has shown excellent immune response in mice without the need for an adjuvant (a substance added to increase antibody production). This is likely to cover most influenza strains, and may only require a booster every 10-20 years. This technology may still be more than 5 yrs away from availability; human trials have yet to start. Such a vaccine could save thousands of lives worldwide each year, not to mention all the serious and costly illness.

I've been involved in vaccine research (as well as other medical clinical trials) for over 20 years. There is nothing dangerous about a vaccination, no reason to fear negative outcomes.
The only likely side effect is a local reaction of mild redness and/or discomfort, and possibly a bit of mild fever and/or malaise. This is simple a "foreign substance" reaction, eliciting a mild inflammatory response, which results in the desired antibody production. I repeat, you cannot get the disease from a non-live virus.

Ever since Edward Jenner performed the first vaccination in 1796, research in this method of disease prevention has been ongoing.
Still, over 500,000 people die of influenza each year, approximately 20-40 thousand of those in the US. While it's true that the very young and the very old are the most vulnerable to serious consequences, any previously vigorous and healthy adult can die of this disease. As an example, there was a 32 yr old healthy male in my community who died last winter.

If you love your family, keep them and yourself up to date on vaccinations.

 

[G2]

If you are pro-vaccination why do you care about those who aren't?