Anti Vaxxers are stupid

[Billyd]

You don't get exposed to live varicella virus by vaccination; it's a purified protein derivative that fools the immune system into making antibodies without any disease exposure.
Almost all modern vaccines are of this type. We might expect therefore, that if everyone gets vaccinated against varicella, we will see a steady decline in the number of Herpes Zoster (shingles) cases over time. This can be very debilitating and difficult to treat, especially in the elderly. The new Shingrix vaccine is about 95% effective.

If you get a vaccination and don't get immunity, then either the vaccine did not stimulate an adequate immune response (not enough antibodies), or the strain of virus you contracted was not covered by the vaccine you received.

That last point addresses the dilemma with influenza immunity.
Pathogenic influenza strains change every year, specifically the protein sources that are traditionally available to stimulate antibody production.
Whatever is present in southeast Asia early in the year, those are the strains that are chosen to likely appear in our hemisphere later in the year. To maximise our potential for coverage, multistrain vaccines have emerged in recent years with up to 4 strains of Influenza A&B. But still we can miss covering the predominant strain in a given area; common international travel has made this even more problematic.

Research has made some strides in the last 2 years in the development of a novel source of influenza viral protein which does not mutate or change yearly. It has shown excellent immune response in mice without the need for an adjuvant (a substance added to increase antibody production). This is likely to cover most influenza strains, and may only require a booster every 10-20 years. This technology may still be more than 5 yrs away from availability; human trials have yet to start. Such a vaccine could save thousands of lives worldwide each year, not to mention all the serious and costly illness.

I've been involved in vaccine research (as well as other medical clinical trials) for over 20 years. There is nothing dangerous about a vaccination, no reason to fear negative outcomes.
The only likely side effect is a local reaction of mild redness and/or discomfort, and possibly a bit of mild fever and/or malaise. This is simple a "foreign substance" reaction, eliciting a mild inflammatory response, which results in the desired antibody production. I repeat, you cannot get the disease from a non-live virus.

Ever since Edward Jenner performed the first vaccination in 1796, research in this method of disease prevention has been ongoing.
Still, over 500,000 people die of influenza each year, approximately 20-40 thousand of those in the US. While it's true that the very young and the very old are the most vulnerable to serious consequences, any previously vigorous and healthy adult can die of this disease. As an example, there was a 32 yr old healthy male in my community who died last winter.

If you love your family, keep them and yourself up to date on vaccinations.

Thank you for clearing up some of those issues. I DONT think I was ever vaccinated for chicken pox. I made a post a few minutes ago in regards to that..l presumed I was before i went to thailand but that was before the public apparently was vaccinated against it..This was in the late sixties, but do to the area in asia, I was vaccinated against things some might not have been..

Some points that i am middle of the fence on are the multiple virus vaccinations, and if course the flu vaccine. i mentioned earlier i am pro vaccine i have a healthy daughter 20 to prove it, and she received the required vaccines as suggested..

I think a lack of research into the facts more prevalent than anything, i dont subcribe to the vaccinations causing autism..

However the flu vaccine and the recent inefectiveness has caused me to be concerned there. Mutation DRIVING the bus leading to a worse or more virulent strain of the flu, is a concern. Although im sure public health a focus of many, we from time to time do make mistakes. THEY do get out in the open..

Always good to have new knowledge of what is happening now. Thank you!

 

[DoctorChicken]

“I would rather my child die from a completely preventable disease than get autism” - what anti vaxxers are really saying.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

I remember getting chick pox when I was probably between 5 and 7 years old, but don't remember much of anything about it.

I had it very young too. I remember spots on my face and feeling like crap.

 

[Doc50]

Thank you for clearing up some of those issues. I DONT think I was ever vaccinated for chicken pox. I made a post a few minutes ago in regards to that..l presumed I was before i went to thailand but that was before the public apparently was vaccinated against it..This was in the late sixties, but do to the area in asia, I was vaccinated against things some might not have been..

Some points that i am middle of the fence on are the multiple virus vaccinations, and if course the flu vaccine. i mentioned earlier i am pro vaccine i have a healthy daughter 20 to prove it, and she received the required vaccines as suggested..

I think a lack of research into the facts more prevalent than anything, i dont subcribe to the vaccinations causing autism..

However the flu vaccine and the recent inefectiveness has caused me to be concerned there. Mutation DRIVING the bus leading to a worse or more virulent strain of the flu, is a concern. Although im sure public health a focus of many, we from time to time do make mistakes. THEY do get out in the open..

Always good to have new knowledge of what is happening now. Thank you!

The mutation of the influenza virus has nothing to do with vaccines; it simply changes every year by natural reproductive evolution, also not because of any anti-viral medication. It’s the reason it has taken so many years to catch up with influenza, even amid epidemics — it’s always changed too rapidly.

You may be thinking about a second infectious problem we have, which is resistant bacteria.
By incompletely treating a bacterial infection, we are likely enabling the organism to grow in the presence of the antibiotic, without killing it, and thereby allowing it to develop resistance to that particular medication. So if the infection is passed, there will be one less antibiotic available to treat with.

 

[jrumann59]

If you are pro-vaccination why do you care about those who aren't?

Because some diseases require decontamination if their is an outbreak. Places like schools get used for other things than schooling so diseases could be in advertently spread to say a 4 month old baby which has nor received its first battery of "mandatory" vaccinations.

 

[jrumann59]

“I would rather my child die from a completely preventable disease than get autism” - what anti vaxxers are really saying.

I would not go that far. Some of it is healthy skepticism. I present the question do scientists know beyond reasonable doubt that all the different cocktails of vaccines a certain person takes does not cause autism, they do not know what causes autism, they have theories but nothing that has made it out of the scientific method way of research. So of the fears of anti-vaxxers have, many companies have delved into dna based therapy as in your medication dosage would be decided by DNA and things present in it. The concept is based on your genome doctors would be able to optimize treatments so that you get the right amount. Some people can handle X amount of this medication but others need Y and others need Z. By studing the genome they can "decipher" the effective ness at a molecular level and tweak it there. Of course a lot of that is in theory and prett far off.

 

[csirl]

If you are pro-vaccination why do you care about those who aren't?

Interesting point. Population wide vaccination relies on the principal of 'herd immunity'. You will only eliminate a disease if practically everyone is vaccinated. Once there is a critical mass of non-vaccinated the disease will remain in the population.

 

[Doc50]

I would not go that far. Some of it is healthy skepticism. I present the question do scientists know beyond reasonable doubt that all the different cocktails of vaccines a certain person takes does not cause autism, they do not know what causes autism, they have theories but nothing that has made it out of the scientific method way of research. So of the fears of anti-vaxxers have, many companies have delved into dna based therapy as in your medication dosage would be decided by DNA and things present in it. The concept is based on your genome doctors would be able to optimize treatments so that you get the right amount. Some people can handle X amount of this medication but others need Y and others need Z. By studing the genome they can "decipher" the effective ness at a molecular level and tweak it there. Of course a lot of that is in theory and prett far off.

No, we regularly do pharmacogenetic studies on complex patients. It assists in medication choices based on the the type of metabolic pathways that are genetically present or absent in the liver.

This has nothing to do with vaccines and the immune response. Antibodies to invading agents are good. We have them currently to all the viruses we’ve been exposed to; multiple antibody types are not problematic.

 

[Melonfeud]

Well, my sister is a med doctor, her son is a doctor, my two best friends in Dallas are doctors....and when they speak honestly, they have real debates on this issue.

Its not so cut and dry when discussing ALL of the vaccines and the timing.

I get it though; the surest way to prevent a mass spread of something known is through vaccination. The theoretical side issues of what it actually does to the recipient’s body is not even relevant (right or wrong) to the CDC, the pharmaceutical industry, or the masses in general.

Two different debates

Man,the possible side effects of certain drugs they list in the T.V. commercials are hilariously mind boggling to me, when I actually sit & listen, as most of the time I'm triggering the channel changer,,, some of them sound like taking the the cure for what ails you will possibly kill you,,,

 

[Keithfansince5]

I AM A PROUD ANTI VAXXER and am grateful to God for showing me the truth. You people who think vaccines actually help you hahahahaha. Wow. Do you know what the leading cause of death is in America? Doctors and it isn't even close. Follow their advise to your own peril.

My daughters are smarter because they do not get vaccines, mercury will never willingly be injected in my body or theirs. No level of mercury is safe. (Thimerosal)

The pharmaceudical industry is evil and does not care for you at all. The studies done on their drugs are always done by their own scientists. Look to God and food for your health NOT big pharma.

 

[DFWJC]

Man,the possible side effects of certain drugs they list in the T.V. commercials are hilariously mind boggling to me, when I actually sit & listen, as most of the time I'm triggering the channel changer,,, some of them sound like taking the the cure for what ails you will possibly kill you,,,

That alone should tell anyone that's paying attention, that vaccines are not so cut and dry.
And I'm NOT a big anti-vaxer, but have friends that are.
Some of the pompous (and clueless) arrogance in this thread ticks me off a bit.
I know some pretty incredibly bright doctors (one guy who stood in wedding was at or near the top of Harvard med school class) say there is some smoke here with "some" of the vaxes.

 

[Keithfansince5]

Idn about that on the Flu vaccine
..If you look at the demographics for the last Five to seven years you see something unusual..As with most years The demographics children and the elderly are most prone to die from complications from the flu, however there was a indication a few years ago of the demograpic changing to group from 25-45 in either another wave of the same flu virus or a mutation of one.

I Am not claiming this as fact, just what I noticed from reviewing the numbers @ the Cdc at the time..

Taking a flu vaccine is idiotic. They are non effective yet they keep pushing them. Money is why not results. Don't be fooled. I never get the flu and have never had a flu shot. No amount of mercury is safe folks. Mercury (Thimerosal) stays in your body and accumulates. Eat organic food, stop eating the franken food they are creating and your body will heal itself

 

[Mountaineerfan]

One of my teachers in school was the last person to lose the ability to walk because of polio in WV. I tend to think some vaccinations are ok.

 

[DFWJC]

One of my teachers in school was the last person to lose the ability to walk because of polio in WV. I tend to think some vaccinations are ok.

I have my issues with some vaccines and how/when they are administered. But it is indisputable that some have saved millions of lives over the course of history.

 

[Keithfansince5]

There was that one bozo who came out with a report that used bad science to claim that vaccines cause autism. He lost his medical license over that and his paper was totally discredited. But it started this bogus movement. Now people are scared of vaccines.

Or the really bogus "studies" that show their safe. Haha. It is so easy to fool people. It takes a lot to wake up in our society to the truth and to see what is going in. Big pharma is one of the most corrupt industries there is. Thankfully people are waking up and want nothing to do with their poisons.

 

[Doc50]

Man,the possible side effects of certain drugs they list in the T.V. commercials are hilariously mind boggling to me, when I actually sit & listen, as most of the time I'm triggering the channel changer,,, some of them sound like taking the the cure for what ails you will possibly kill you,,,

The benefits far outweigh the risks.

An extreme example of this is chemotherapy for cancer. We all know how dangerous some of it is, in an attempt to kill the disease instead of the patient. But a complete cure can be achieved, so it’s usually worth the risk.

And there’s complete transparency — any potential complication or side effect reported during years of trials and after release is recorded in the data base, even if the incidence is far less than 1%. The apparent negatives of listing some of worst possible outcomes from an advertised med is required legally, due to the fact that direct-to-consumer advertising incurs additional liability.

Consider the benefit vs risk of driving a car........
over 70 mph.........on balding tires........in the rain..........at night.........by a 16 yo.
We consider these risks on a daily basis, and think nothing of many of them.

Yet I frequently have patients who won’t try a statin because they heard in might be bad for them and don’t trust it, despite their extremely poor lipid profile, poor fitness, tobacco use, and family history of strokes and heart attacks before 65yo.

Again, everyone is entitled to choose their own path, but it would be prudent to consider one’s family.

 

[Doc50]

Or the really bogus "studies" that show their safe. Haha. It is so easy to fool people. It takes a lot to wake up in our society to the truth and to see what is going in. Big pharma is one of the most corrupt industries there is. Thankfully people are waking up and want nothing to do with their poisons.

You have some scientific evidence of that?

 

[Melonfeud]

The benefits far outweigh the risks.

An extreme example of this is chemotherapy for cancer. We all know how dangerous some of it is, in an attempt to kill the disease instead of the patient. But a complete cure can be achieved, so it’s usually worth the risk.

And there’s complete transparency — any potential complication or side effect reported during years of trials and after release is recorded in the data base, even if the incidence is far less than 1%. The apparent negatives of listing some of worst possible outcomes from an advertised med is required legally, due to the fact that direct-to-consumer advertising incurs additional liability.

Consider the benefit vs risk of driving a car........
over 70 mph.........on balding tires........in the rain..........at night.........by a 16 yo.
We consider these risks on a daily basis, and think nothing of many of them.

Yet I frequently have patients who won’t try a statin because they heard in might be bad for them and don’t trust it, despite their extremely poor lipid profile, poor fitness, tobacco use, and family history of strokes and heart attacks before 65yo.

Again, everyone is entitled to choose their own path, but it would be prudent to consider one’s family.

Thanks for the heads up & ' lining me out' as to the " why's " some of those bizarre side effects are stated ,however small of a chance of it actually occurring may be.


* I think I saw one the other day listing 'permanent facial muscle paralysis'

 

[Doc50]

Thanks for the heads up & ' lining me out' as to the " why's " some of those bizarre side effects are stated ,however small of a chance of it actually occurring may be.


* I think I saw one the other day listing 'permanent facial muscle paralysis'

Yeah, it’s really laughable at times.

Virtually all docs are against FTC advertising because it confuses patients, they can’t get it without a Rx anyway, and is increases the costs of the medication.

 

[Keithfansince5]

You have some scientific evidence of that?

Here are a couple eye opening videos for you or anyone else to see.

Here is a list of 3,000 kids who died from being vaccinated. This is on the CDC site :

Or here is one on polio and measles and how data is doctored.


America has the lowest infectious disease rate in the world... Woohooo. That is good news. Oh but wait. Our kids are sick.

*over 54% of U.S. children have a chronic disease
*21% developmentaly disabled (1 in 4 kids)
* current rate of autism 1 in 45 children
* 1960 America ranked 12th in infant mortality (on avg 6 infant deaths per 1,000 live births)
* 2016 America is ranked 77th in infant mortality. This is horrible.

2016 1 in 45 kids have autism
2025: 1 in 2 children will. WOW. WHY?

btw. 1975: 1 in 5,000 kids had autism. The chart is a steep climb up from there. Oh I am sure they just diagnose these kids better now than back then lol. Vaccines have nothing to do with it...lol

According to William Thompson, a CDC whistleblower, admitted that the CDC had deliberately withheld crucial evidence proving that the MMR vaccine caused autism. Research carried out by the CDC in Atlanta revealed that when African American boys under the age of 36 months were given the MMR vaccine, the rate of autism in this group rose by 340 percent.

The CDC decided to fix the data and eliminated all African American boys without a Georgia birth certificate.

More stats:

How many vaccines do we get?
1986 - 23 doses of 7 vaccines
1997 - 33 doses of 9 vaccines
2016 - 69 doses of 16 vaccines
2018 - 72 doses of 17 vaccines

Today,
*1 child in 6 is learning disabled
*1 in 9 has asthma
*1 in 10 has ADHD
*1 in 45 develops autism
*1 in 400 has diabetes

But no worries, big pharma made sure they would no longer be held responsible for all the deaths, and other bad things their vaccines cause because in 1986 they had a law passed called The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA) it was enacted to reduce the potential financial liability of vaccine makers due to vaccine injury claims.

So do you think they want to make a safe and healthy product? Lol. Why. They cannot be sued or held responsible anymore.

Will your MMR vaccine prevent you from getting measels?????? Nope. Kids still get measels who have been given the MMR shot. What....

I am sure the good doc here is not going to accept this info. So, you who are not indoctrinated to the medical "science" watch these videos and make your own decision. I made mine.