Anyone still wish we'd taken Moss instead of Ellis?

[dbair1967]

Irvin was a jerk who hurt his team with drug use and improprieties and suspension...has Moss ever hurt his team and organization as badly as Irvin did?
.

apparently so, because the Vikings couldnt wait to run his stupid arse out of town...

Irvin had his issues, but he was a give 110% winner on the field...Moss isnt anywhere close to that even though he's a much more gifted athlete...Irvin also played great in big games...Moss has never really had much impact in the postseason and has been caught "loafing" numerous times on camera

David

 

[Chuck 54]

wow, thought that did make sense...maybe I need to draw you a picture

Michael Irvin--Dallas Cowboy player, didnt fail drug test, got 5 game suspension because it appeared he took drugs

Randy Moss-- admits he smokes dope, probably wont get suspended because he doesnt play for the Cowboys

got it now?

David

If you don't believe IRvin used drugs during his career, then you must be the biggest homer of all freakin' time....IRvin had lots of personal problems off the field, and drugs was one of them. When you get caught in a room with a hooker and cocaine, you're going to get a suspension, and he deserved it.

I'll also say that anyone who thinks "weed" isn't smoked by maybe half the young players in the NFL at some point in time is very naive.

 

[ctalker]

I would still take Moss but I wonder how he would of responded with the revolving door of QB's we have had here. Strikes me as the kind of guy who wouldn't be happy unless he is getting his numbers.

 

[Chuck 54]

At the time I was wanting us to draft Moss more then any player.

I was lucky enough to see almost all of his games while he was a Marshall and some of the things he did on the field made you do double and triple takes.

I remember one game they threw a short pass to him and a LB was coming towards him, he stiff armed the LB. A few yards later a CB was lowering his head for the tackle on moss and randy hurdled the guy the guy was just slightly bent going into tackle position and moss just jumped over him like a deer jumping over a fence....a few yards futher he juked a FS out of his shoes. It was one of the most amazing catch and runs I had ever seen.

However I also knew that he was slated to go to both ND and FSU and could not go for reasons (one being MJ). I remember someone at FSU saying that he was a man amongst boys just after watching him for 10 minutes.

Once he got to marshall you did not hear any further problems with him, maybe they hid it but I know when he was on the field he was always giving it his best...he played through injuries as well.

So yes I wanted him more then anything during that draft and thought for sure we were going to take him as the cowboys sent a rep to the town where Randy was living...Randy really believed, and was led to believe, that he was going to be a Cowboy and that is why he was so mad afterwards and has torched us everytime he has faced us.

HOWEVER....

Since we drafted Greg Ellis I have never looked back and complained about it...it serves no purpose then and it does not now no matter what he has done or has not done IMO.

It is water under the bridge and no use to cry over spilt milk.

Same thing with Byron Leftwich...he was the guy I wanted, but once we selected Newman I have not looked back...once again water under the bridge....woulda coulda shoulda does me no good.

Moss and Leftwich or Ellis and Newman...I like your attitude Brain...I love these guys too, but that makes me want to sniffle a little thinking about what could have been and what could still be.

To me, Moss over Ellis is still a no brainer though we all understand why JJ passed on Moss. However, seeing how a guy like Henry looks out there this preseason, well, I know some here want to run Leftwich down, just like they want to hate on McNabb, but I'd still swap Newman for Leftwich today.

QB's win more games than CB's.

 

[Juke99]

I would just LOVE to see one of these idiots live in the real world for just one week....

 

[Chuck 54]

the coke was probably Irvin's, but since he didnt admit it was we dont know for sure...he never actually failed a drug test

so he was suspended for being in a room with drugs and hookers...is that worse than running over people and admitting you smoke dope? I guess we shall see, but I bet he doesnt get suspended...hell Leonard Little was allowed back on the field with only a half yr suspension for killing someone while being drunk...Little got 8 games for man slaughter, Irvin got 5 games for being in a room with coke and hookers....something just doesnt seem right about that...I'm betting had Irvin been a Ram and Little been a Cowboy and both committed the same crimes, Little would have never been let back in the league and Irvin would have got a hand slap

David

when you plead "no contest" to drug possession, that means you possessed it. I have no doubt that he was using it...no proof, but no doubt either. He was in trouble with the law and was sentenced...of course he was suspended.

 

[dbair1967]

If you don't believe IRvin used drugs during his career, then you must be the biggest homer of all freakin' time....IRvin had lots of personal problems off the field, and drugs was one of them. When you get caught in a room with a hooker and cocaine, you're going to get a suspension, and he deserved it.

I'll also say that anyone who thinks "weed" isn't smoked by maybe half the young players in the NFL at some point in time is very naive.

half the player smoke pot? I think your typing while using it yourself then...no way its that high (no pun)

as for Irvin, I never said he NEVER used drugs...I said he never failed a drug test...he admits he had issues but he also says he never failed a drug test...just saying, if Irvin got suspended because of appearance (which is what it was) then Moss should be suspended because of ADMITTING it

Moss has always been trouble, high school, college and pro...hasnt been suspended once...wonder why that is? wonder how many times he would have been suspended by now if he were a Cowboy? how bout Leonard Little, Ray Lewis or Jamal Lewis? Sean Taylor? I'm just saying there's definitely a double standard at the league office for how players are disciplined

but if you ask me what player in their prime I want on the field with me in a game I have to win, I'll take Irvin any day of the week over Moss...I want the guy who impacts a whole game and whole team in a positive way, not the guy who shows up for 4 or 5 plays and then sulks and/or loafs the rest of the time

David

 

[dbair1967]

when you plead "no contest" to drug possession, that means you possessed it. I have no doubt that he was using it...no proof, but no doubt either. He was in trouble with the law and was sentenced...of course he was suspended.

you are missing the point, just as the other guy did...

never said he SHOULDNT have been suspended...just saying had he played elsewhere he probably wouldnt have been and also saying had other thugs been on this team when they did their crimes they'd have been punished more severely

thats what I have an issue with

David

 

[Chuck 54]

Ellis is the best DE we've had since Haley or Tolbert...and he's alot closer to those than he is to Pittman

David

that's not saying much on the first part...on the second, I'd say Ellis is closer to Tolbert than to Pittman, but he's definitely not there...as far as Haley, Ellis doesn't deserve to even be compared.

 

[dbair1967]

Moss and Leftwich or Ellis and Newman...I like your attitude Brain....

Leftwich could still end up being a lousy QB, and judging by what I saw the other night, he will be...he was just terrible

I think there's alot more liklihood that Newman makes the probowl this yr than Leftwich...and a probowl CB IS more important than a middle of the pack/mediocre QB

David

 

[dbair1967]

that's not saying much on the first part...on the second, I'd say Ellis is closer to Tolbert than to Pittman, but he's definitely not there...as far as Haley, Ellis doesn't deserve to even be compared.

and Ellis doesnt need to be compared to Pittman either

Pittman was a waste of a roster spot and a horrible draft pick (we should have taken Brackens)...Ellis has been and still is a very good player

David

 

[Billy Bullocks]

for those that wish we'd have drafted this thug loser, whats he helped Minnesota win? what playoff games did he ever dominate? The guy is an embarrassment to the league with his me first attitude, all the off field probs and now admitting (wow, what a surprise) that he's a pot head

wonder if he's gonna get a 5 game suspension like Irvin did in 1996? I'm sure we'll see the league spin doctors say something stupid like "well, but Moss has never failed a drug test" and the media idiots will buy that, but Irvin never had a positive drug test either

Moss= LOSER

David

Irvin was arrested though wasnt he? And to get at your labeling him a pot head, that's just ludicrious. He says he smokes occationally, and it's in the offseason. And you know what, I frankly don't see it as a problem at all, because think of it this way. If he can smoke pot and come out and dominate on Sunday the way he does, heshould be rewarding, he's putting himself at a disadvantage.

Pot in moderation is like anything else, it's not going to do too much harm to you at all.

 

[jman]

djdoug said:

same here.But,the past is the past.If you admit to a cop you "were" speeding,he can't give you a ticket for it.the cop has to have proof.So will the NFL.

No, they just need probable cause to put him in the substance abuse program...No failed drug test needed. And Moss just may have opened the door for them.

 

[dbair1967]

Irvin was arrested though wasnt he? And to get at your labeling him a pot head, that's just ludicrious. He says he smokes occationally, and it's in the offseason. And you know what, I frankly don't see it as a problem at all, because think of it this way. If he can smoke pot and come out and dominate on Sunday the way he does, heshould be rewarding, he's putting himself at a disadvantage.

Pot in moderation is like anything else, it's not going to do too much harm to you at all.

Pot=illegal

and how do you know he uses in moderation? is Moss less of a pot/drug head than Irvin was? how do you know?

David

 

[silver]

Moss has one of the worst attitudes ever, and he is a thug

and Ellis is the best DE we've had since Haley or Tolbert...and he's alot closer to those than he is to Pittman

David

i was trying to exagerate to make a point. but ellis is nowhere near haley. hes more along the lines of jim jeffcoat or larry cole. unheralded yet productive.

on the other hand moss might have a bad attitude, but he sure as heck has make us pay for not drafting him by repeatedly burning our cbs for long tds. he even impacted deion injury recovery time a bit.

i wouldnt mind ellis doing drugs if that made him play like lawerence taylor or bruce smith or charles haley in their prime

 

[Chuck 54]

half the player smoke pot? I think your typing while using it yourself then...no way its that high (no pun)

as for Irvin, I never said he NEVER used drugs...I said he never failed a drug test...he admits he had issues but he also says he never failed a drug test...just saying, if Irvin got suspended because of appearance (which is what it was) then Moss should be suspended because of ADMITTING it

Moss has always been trouble, high school, college and pro...hasnt been suspended once...wonder why that is? wonder how many times he would have been suspended by now if he were a Cowboy? how bout Leonard Little, Ray Lewis or Jamal Lewis? Sean Taylor? I'm just saying there's definitely a double standard at the league office for how players are disciplined

but if you ask me what player in their prime I want on the field with me in a game I have to win, I'll take Irvin any day of the week over Moss...I want the guy who impacts a whole game and whole team in a positive way, not the guy who shows up for 4 or 5 plays and then sulks and/or loafs the rest of the time

David

moss's prior problems is why he was drafted so low and why we didn't jump on him, but what's he done in the NFL that would warrant a suspension?

 

[Chuck 54]

you are missing the point, just as the other guy did...

never said he SHOULDNT have been suspended...just saying had he played elsewhere he probably wouldnt have been and also saying had other thugs been on this team when they did their crimes they'd have been punished more severely

thats what I have an issue with

David

I can live with that, and agree with it....though I think if Irvin had been arrested and pled guilty in any city, he'd have been suspended.

Now, if Moss had played in a market like Dallas, maybe he'd have been suspended for something...but I don't know what.

 

[Banned_n_austin]

Why does everyone make such a big deal out of this?


IT'S JUST A LITTLE POT!!!


It's not like he's drinking alcohol which is 10 times worse for you ...

 

[Banned_n_austin]

Still wish we got Moss, so what if he did or has. All of those years of great numbers would have been worth it by far.

Ill take Moss and his numbers for his short time as a Viking then Ellis whole career as a cowboy.

That avatar is great ...

 

[Chuck 54]

Leftwich could still end up being a lousy QB, and judging by what I saw the other night, he will be...he was just terrible

I think there's alot more liklihood that Newman makes the probowl this yr than Leftwich...and a probowl CB IS more important than a middle of the pack/mediocre QB

David

I agree 100% that Newman will make the probowl before Leftwich...Leftwich may never make it, but I think he'll be a very good QB...that's why I'd swap Newman for him...again, just a difference of opinion.

and just so I don't have to post another reply...on the 50% smoking grass, I said at some point in time...I'm sure a much higher percentage have smoked weed at some point even if not regularly...i believe that. You should check out the percentages of kids who smoke grass in high school and college overall.