ARTICLE: Former Cowboy Mel Renfro has advice for S Roy Williams

[dcowboysfan76]

Bob Sanders, who has had 3 interceptions over the last 3 years and has shown an injury history?

Rodney Harrison, the 14 year vet who also has 3 interceptions over the last 4 years, 1 in the last 3 and is now starting to rack up injuries and suspensions?

Landry, having a rookie season that pales in comparison to Roys and could easily go downhill like many suggest has happened to Roy?


Cool, that's your opinion.

I saw this coming........nevertheless Roy inspite of his coverage issues is the best at his position as compared to the SS that I can think of......

1. Polamalu is faster than Roy, but lacks discipline....
2. Dawkins is a FS
3. Landry = unproven
4. Mike Brown could be considered better....he's faster, better in coverage and will lay the wood on you.
5. Reed is a FS
6. Sharper is better in coverage but not against the run
7. Adrian Wilson is not all that good in coverage but he's decent

 

[superpunk]

I saw this coming........nevertheless Roy inspite of his coverage issues is the best at his position as compared to the SS that I can think of......

1. Polamalu is faster than Roy, but lacks coverage skills....
2. Dawkins is a FS
3. Landry = unproven
4. Mike Brown could be considered better....he's faster, better in coverage and will lay the wood on you.
5. Reed is a FS
6. Sharper is better in coverage but not against the run
7. Adrian Wilson is not all that good in coverage

If I'm reading you right, your problem with Roy is not that he is not a good safety.

You have a problem with Roy because he is not God.

Also, Brown plays free as well.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Man, if I were Roy Williams I would take exception to Mel publically critiquing my play. If he has advise, talk to me privately. I find that just a bit disrespectful.

No.... what Roy should do is ask him to come in and work with him.... or some real pointers one on one.... THAT is what Roy should do.

 

[WoodysGirl]

If I'm reading you right, your problem with Roy is not that he is not a good safety.

You have a problem with Roy because he is not God.

Also, Brown plays free as well.

Isn't Brown out for the season, too? He's had some injury concerns the past three years.

If I go by numbers alone, one safety who gets no love is Deon Grant. His career numbers are very similar to Roy's.

 

[JPM]

If I'm reading you right, your problem with Roy is not that he is not a good safety.

You have a problem with Roy because he is not God.

Also, Brown plays free as well.

From the looks of his list it seems most elite strong safeties have the same Achilles heel...their coverage isn't that good.
Will wonders ever cease ?

 

[dcowboysfan76]

If I'm reading you right, your problem with Roy is not that he is not a good safety.

You have a problem with Roy because he is not God.

Also, Brown plays free as well.

Mike Brown plays SS my friend

http://www.nfl.com/players/search;j...category=position&conference=ALL&d-447263-p=1

My problem with Roy Williams is that he has coverage issues, and sometimes he lacks discipline and doesn't display the fundamentals of tackling. It's not about wanting him to be God, it's about wanting him to dedicate himself and learn his position......Also I am on record for saying that I like Roy Williams...

 

[slick325]

There were people on this board gushing over Sanders on Monday night because he made an interception. But he's been in the league four years now and still doesn't have as many interceptions as Roy made during his rookie season.

And if the Roy bashers had watched Sanders closely in that game, they would have seen him 1) Getting burned by some scrub tight end named Greg Estandia for a 22-yard completion; 2) Completely whiffing on a tackle at the line of scrimmage, allowing Fred Taylor to run past him for a 17-yard gain; 3) Taking poor angles in pursuit; and 4) Taking on blockers instead of trying to make tackles.

Better yet, if you watch any safety in any game, you could say similar things about them, too, because those things happen all of the time, even to the best players. But Roy is the only one I've seen who gets repeatedly bashed for not being perfect -- or better.

Very well put. It is very en vogue to bash Roy's coverage ability. Be it national media, local media or on message boards. He obviously has deficiencies but so does every player in the league at every position. Roy is not as bad in coverage as he is made out to be. Renfro makes good points about his footwork and playing the ball in the air but what gets him in the most trouble is his propensity to want to help out teammates even when it is outside of his assignment. Roy wants to be a savior when really he just needs to do what is asked of him.

An example of this was the play where Ellis got smoked by Peterson on that wheel route. Had Jackson pump faked to Peterson and thrown the ball to where Roy vacated for a touchdown, Roy would have been called out and rightfully so. He needs to just do his job and stop playing the savior role.

 

[dallasfaniac]

If I go by numbers alone, one safety who gets no love is Deon Grant. His career numbers are very similar to Roy's.

I personally like Grant, but he has SS speed and a FS body.

 

[superpunk]

Mike Brown plays SS my friend

http://www.nfl.com/players/search;j...category=position&conference=ALL&d-447263-p=1

That is incorrect.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/chicagobears/depthchart?team=CHI

He's always been a free safety.

My problem with Roy Williams is that he has coverage issues, and sometimes he lacks discipline and doesn't display the fundamentals of tackling. It's not about wanting him to be God, it's about wanting him to dedicate himself and learn his position......Also I am on record for saying that I like Roy Williams...

All safeties have these issues.

Roy has them less than most, and does some things better than any. He's the victim of unrealistic expectations, where people expect him to do things no safety in the NFL does.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I personally like Grant, but he has SS speed and a FS body.

A quick glance at the stats and you'll see their production this year is virtually equal. Almost down to the number of tackles.

 

[Hostile]

There were people on this board gushing over Sanders on Monday night because he made an interception. But he's been in the league four years now and still doesn't have as many interceptions as Roy made during his rookie season.

And if the Roy bashers had watched Sanders closely in that game, they would have seen him 1) Getting burned by some scrub tight end named Greg Estandia for a 22-yard completion; 2) Completely whiffing on a tackle at the line of scrimmage, allowing Fred Taylor to run past him for a 17-yard gain; 3) Taking poor angles in pursuit; and 4) Taking on blockers instead of trying to make tackles.

Better yet, if you watch any safety in any game, you could say similar things about them, too, because those things happen all of the time, even to the best players. But Roy is the only one I've seen who gets repeatedly bashed for not being perfect -- or better.

Great post, but in fairness, Sean Taylor gets ripped here pretty good for being a Commander. I think he's a good Safety too.

 

[AdamJT13]

If I go by numbers alone, one safety who gets no love is Deon Grant. His career numbers are very similar to Roy's.

Grant has been in the league longer, and most of his career numbers are worse than Roy's.

Here are their stats since Roy has been in the league:

Games played: Roy 87, Grant 87
Interceptions: Roy 19, Grant 15
Sacks: Roy 6.5, Grant 3.5
Stuffs: Roy 14, Grant 4
Forced fumbles: Roy 8, Grant 1
Fumble recoveries: Roy 8, Grant 5
Touchdowns: Roy 3, Grant 0

 

[AdamJT13]

Great post, but in fairness, Sean Taylor gets ripped here pretty good for being a Commander. I think he's a good Safety too.

I haven't seen Taylor getting ripped very often when he doesn't deserve to be. It's just that last season, Taylor deserved to be ripped more often than any other safety in at least a decade.

But it's natural for fans to criticize division rivals. I'm not talking about Commanders fans bashing Roy, I'm talking about OUR fans bashing Roy, even when he doesn't deserve it in the least.

 

[dcowboysfan76]

That is incorrect.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/chicagobears/depthchart?team=CHI

He's always been a free safety.



All safeties have these issues.

Roy has them less than most, and does some things better than any. He's the victim of unrealistic expectations, where people expect him to do things no safety in the NFL does.

He used to play FS, but after the achilles and knee injury he was moved to SS.....Nevertheless, potatoe, potato.....No one is expecting unrealistic performances from Roy, and it's obvious that you are more of a Roy lover than a Cowboys' lover so your views are clouded......Anyways Roy:

1. Takes bad angles which is why he's always horse collaring someone
2. Focuses on the big hit when in all actuality he ends up looking like a pin ball flipper....(perfect case and point the big play against the Bears TE)
3, Has coverage issues when there is space either between himself and the LB, or himself and the CB.....examples last year against the Seahawks, Saints, this year against the Giants....
4. Doesn't seem that he has improved much from his second year with the Cowboys.....each year it's status quo Roy getting torched in coverage.......
5. Is always caught looking in the backfield and he bites hard on the play action which is critical because he lacks recovery speed....

WAKE UP!!! Roy needs to improve, and you guys just need to accept it....He will always be judged by the common fans because we expect better from a high paid player....We want better than average......Is that too much to ask? I am not asking for the unrealistic or the unachievable ......

 

[WoodysGirl]

Grant has been in the league longer, and most of his career numbers are worse than Roy's.

Here are their stats since Roy has been in the league:

Games played: Roy 87, Grant 87
Interceptions: Roy 19, Grant 15
Sacks: Roy 6.5, Grant 3.5
Stuffs: Roy 14, Grant 4
Forced fumbles: Roy 8, Grant 1
Fumble recoveries: Roy 8, Grant 5
Touchdowns: Roy 3, Grant 0

Not sure what happened his rookie year, but he's only been on the field one year longer than Roy. Still when I look at those numbers, while they're advantage Roy, they're still pretty good.

And when I look at the current player matchup thru NFL.com for 2007, Roy's advantage is basically three more tackles and more interception return yards.

I think if you have to pick a comparable player, Grant wouldn't be too far off the mark. At least they play the same position.

 

[WoodysGirl]

WAKE UP!!! Roy needs to improve, and you guys just need to accept it....He will always be judged by the common fans because we expect better from a high paid player....We want better than average......Is that too much to ask? I am not asking for unachievable expectations......

What's considered average? And in comparison to what? Instead of throwing out tired rhetoric, what would be acceptable above average play from Roy?

 

[TVMan]

WAKE UP!!! Roy needs to improve, and you guys just need to accept it....

I think you need to Wake up and then Shut up!!!

 

[superpunk]

He used to play FS, but after the achilles and knee injury he was moved to SS.....Nevertheless, potatoe, potato.....No one is expecting unrealistic performances from Roy, and it's obvious that you are more of a Roy lover than a Cowboys' lover so your views are clouded.

How did you come to that conclusion, Sherlock?

.....Anyways Roy:

1. Takes bad angles which is why he's always horse collaring someone
2. Focuses on the big hit when in all actuality he ends up looking like a pin ball flipper....(perfect case and point the big play against the Bears TE)
3, Has coverage issues when there is space either between himself and the LB, or himself and the CB.....examples last year against the Seahawks, Saints, this year against the Giants....
4. Doesn't seem that he has improved much from his second year with the Cowboys.....each year it's status quo Roy getting torched in coverage.......
5. Is always caught looking in the backfield and he bites hard on the play action which is critical because he lacks recovery speed....

WAKE UP!!! Roy needs to improve, and you guys just need to accept it....He will always be judged by the common fans because we expect better from a high paid player....We want better than average......Is that too much to ask? I am not asking for unachievable expectations......

Wait...didn't you just say

Roy inspite of his coverage issues is the best at his position as compared to the SS that I can think of......

Something tells me you didn't think your cunning point of view the whole way through.

 

[Oldschool7]

What is Renfro's motivation for saying something like that?

Mel is correct but that's not the point. Saying such a thing publicly is less helpful for Roy and the Cowboys. You do that kind of thing privately...to a coach or to Roy himself.

It seems a little like Renfro is saying, "hey, compare Roy and me--I sure knew what I was doing. Hey remember how good I was!"

For Mel to jump into that kind of critique is very different than Troy or Daryl doing so - Troy and Daryl are paid to give objective commentary.

 

[dcowboysfan76]

What's considered average? And in comparison to what? Instead of throwing out tired rhetoric, what would be acceptable above average play from Roy?

IMO, acceptable above average play from Roy would be for him to improve in coverage. Right now Roy is considered pretty good in one dimension and that's near the line against the run....In comparison to Woody, Woody was pretty good at both....so just like other Cowboys fans who have been waiting for an Aikman replacement, I've been waiting for a Woodson replacement. How many times do I need to say it......that's the only thing he's lacking and in regards to your rhetoric remark, isn't that what we all do when we type our thoughts.....the only difference is when someone provides statistical data to back up their point.....