ARTICLE: Former Cowboy Mel Renfro has advice for S Roy Williams

[AdamJT13]

Not talking about other players, just want him to be better in coverage

So you're dropping the whole "bad angles" argument, like you did the tackling argument? Good idea.

Like I said earlier stats don't show the intangibles....there is no stat to measure position, angle, bad coverage technique....Go back and watch the game winning interception against the Eagles since you want to talk about last year....Roy was out of position then...he was lucky the ball came his way....

Oh, please. Roy did exactly what he should have done on that play and was exactly where he should have been. If he wasn't in that spot, you can bet he would have been bashed for not preventing that completion.

So what was this supposed "other" play against Burress when Roy was beaten in coverage?
He scored on a 4 yard play against Williams and Reeves and a 10 yard play.....Roy could've disrupted both, but because he's not good in space.......you know the rest

The 4-yard pass came solely against Reeves. Roy didn't have coverage on Burress. All Roy could have done is get in the throwing lane, but Manning could have just thrown it higher.

I don't want perfection, just better coverage skills

And I want more sacks out of Ware, more touchdown passes out of Romo, more catches out of Witten, more stiff-arms out of Barber, longer punts out of McBriar and fewer misses out of Folk.

There's a difference between wanting players to improve and criticizing them for not being perfect all of the time.

 

[adamknite]

Um, no. Roy is often responsible for a tight end or wide receiver, and he's rarely unsuccessful. He's on the field for every play, you know, and he rarely allows a completion. Even when he's thrown at, he's usually succesful -- he allowed one of the lowest completion rates of any safety last season.

Like I said earlier stats don't show the intangibles....there is no stat to measure position, angle, bad coverage technique....Go back and watch the game winning interception against the Eagles since you want to talk about last year....Roy was out of position then...he was lucky the ball came his way....

Oh come on, there are plenty of plays were Roy messed up, but this wasn't one of him. He jumped it after getting beat by it earlier...McNabb shouldn't have thrown it. it's not Roy's fault that he did.

 

[dcowboysfan76]

So you're dropping the whole "bad angles" argument, like you did the tackling argument? Good idea.
You are absolutely correct!


Oh, please. Roy did exactly what he should have done on that play and was exactly where he should have been. If he wasn't in that spot, you can bet he would have been bashed for not preventing that completion.
OK, you are right!




The 4-yard pass came solely against Reeves. Roy didn't have coverage on Burress. All Roy could have done is get in the throwing lane, but Manning could have just thrown it higher.
Boy you are really on a roll there scholar!!



And I want more sacks out of Ware, more touchdown passes out of Romo, more catches out of Witten, more stiff-arms out of Barber, longer punts out of McBriar and fewer misses out of Folk.

There's a difference between wanting players to improve and criticizing them for not being perfect all of the time.

You are right, Roy W is the best SS ever....He has no flaws....he doesn't make mistakes....Roy should be a CB because he has that shut down ability. Hey maybe we should've put him on Moss, that way we could've rolled the coverage to the other side....btw, I am dropping the tackling argument and the bad angles argument because Roy doesn't have those issues...He is Super Roy, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound....and out run a locomotive.....You are very funny........Stevie Wonder can see Roy has coverage issues and that he's average....Just face it.....There's nothing wrong with being average.....why do you think the Saints were so successful against Roy last year smart guy? It's because Payton practiced against Roy everyday and he knew that Roy couldn't handle space....Why do you think the Seahawks TE was successful against Roy? Hmmmm, could it be that coverage and space thingy again? Give me a break there scooter.....Roy is average, but once again I do believe I am on record for saying that I like Roy, but he needs to improve his coverage skills.........

 

[khiladi]

why do you think the Saints were so successful against Roy last year smart guy?

I thought that Sean Payton exposed us in the flats, and we were playing cover-2, meaning Roy's primary responsibility wasn't that close up. We also struggled somewhat in the FS position last year with Watkins as a rookie. Watkins is progressing, but he wasn't a strength.

I don't get it... We all know Roy is a SS, and his strength is not pass coverage, but strength is a relative term depending on the position one plays. Roy has done pretty good job overall as a SS in respect to his pass coverage.

Also, we haven't been able to exploit Roy's real strengths as much as desired, simply because of all the injuries our secondary has. When this secondary gets to full form, I think Dallas is going to get real aggressive, and Wade is going to have one word for Roy...

"PUNISH..."

 

[dcowboysfan76]

I thought that Sean Payton exposed us in the flats, and we were playing cover-2, meaning Roy's primary responsibility wasn't that close up.

He exposed both my friend.........He sent WR's and TE's up the seam

 

[JPM]

Oh come on, there are plenty of plays were Roy messed up, but this wasn't one of him. He jumped it after getting beat by it earlier...McNabb shouldn't have thrown it. it's not Roy's fault that he did.

You don't get it, when Roy makes a pick it's the QB fault, a bad throw, bad QB, the WR fault, a garbage time pick. Pick one. But when he gets beat, misses a tackle (he does do all those once in a while) LOOK OUT the board goes into meltdown mode.

 

[khiladi]

He exposed both my friend.........He sent WR's and TE's up the seam

Actually, I would dispute that. Sean Payton killed us with a fullback for 3 TDs out of the backfield. This trend continued after the Saints. Also, Henry was actually burned in this game, not Roy Williams. Even the Reggie Bush TD, Bush caught it for a short gain and ran like 60 yards. Is that Roy's fault?

And people were calling out Roy before the Saints game. He has been a target of unfair criticism prior to the Saints game, so Sean Payton didn't expose Roy Williams. He exposed our scheming...

 

[dcowboysfan76]

I thought that Sean Payton exposed us in the flats, and we were playing cover-2, meaning Roy's primary responsibility wasn't that close up. We also struggled somewhat in the FS position last year with Watkins as a rookie. Watkins is progressing, but he wasn't a strength.

I don't get it... We all know Roy is a SS, and his strength is not pass coverage, but strength is a relative term depending on the position one plays. Roy has done pretty good job overall as a SS in respect to his pass coverage.

Also, we haven't been able to exploit Roy's real strengths as much as desired, simply because of all the injuries our secondary has. When this secondary gets to full form, I think Dallas is going to get real aggressive, and Wade is going to have one word for Roy...

"PUNISH..."

True!!!

 

[dcowboysfan76]

Actually, I would dispute that. Sean Payton killed us with a fullback for 3 TDs out of the backfield. This trend continued after the Saints. Also, Henry was actally burned in this game.

And people were calling out Roy before the Saints. He has been a target of unfair criticism prior to the Saints game, so Sean Payton didn't expose Roy Williams.

True, Roy was already exposed......the TD's out of the backfield were 5-10 yard TD's....there were plays to get them down the field before it got to that point....I'm not talking about TD's....I'm talking about the yards....

 

[khiladi]

True, Roy was already exposed......the TD's out of the backfield were 5-10 yard TD's....there were plays to get them down the field before it got to that point....I'm not talking about TD's....I'm talking about the yards....

And most of the yards were on RACs. Remember, a lot of people were blaming the total humiliation on Greg Ellis being out, and not being able to generate any pass rush.

I think we are pretty good defensively, and I don't think Roy is doing bad for what he is being asked to do right now. When our secondary gets healthy, and we can afford having Roy not bearing as much of a coverage responsibility as he is right now, even though he is doing, as we can ALL agree, an adequate job, than we will get to see Roy at his best.

 

[adamknite]

You don't get it, when Roy makes a pick it's the QB fault, a bad throw, bad QB, the WR fault, a garbage time pick. Pick one. But when he gets beat, misses a tackle (he does do all those once in a while) LOOK OUT the board goes into meltdown mode.

I hope I never "get it" .

 

[AdamJT13]

You are right, Roy W is the best SS ever....He has no flaws....he doesn't make mistakes....Roy should be a CB because he has that shut down ability. Hey maybe we should've put him on Moss, that way we could've rolled the coverage to the other side....btw, I am dropping the tackling argument and the bad angles argument because Roy doesn't have those issues...He is Super Roy, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound....and out run a locomotive.....You are very funny........Stevie Wonder can see Roy has coverage issues and that he's average....Just face it.....There's nothing wrong with being average.

Obviously, you've conceded that you can't support any of your statement and are just being ridiculous now.

Like I said earlier, there's no perfect player in the NFL. That means everyone has flaws and makes mistakes, including Roy. But he's FAR better than "average."

why do you think the Saints were so successful against Roy last year smart guy? It's because Payton practiced against Roy everyday and he knew that Roy couldn't handle space.

The Saints completed only two passes against Roy. If Peyton knew Roy couldn't cover, why didn't they throw at him more often?

Why do you think the Seahawks TE was successful against Roy? ....
Hmmmm, could it be that coverage and space thingy again?

Or could it be that every safety gets beaten now and then? Nah.

Give me a break there scooter.

Petty namecalling -- the last resort for those with no substance to their argument.

Have you come up with any examples of a horse collar because he "took a bad angle"? How about any examples this season of Roy biting on play action and not having recovery speed to make up for it? I didn't think so.

 

[dcowboysfan76]

And most of the yards were on RACs. Remember, a lot of people were blaming the total humiliation on Greg Ellis being out, and not being able to generate any pass rush.

I think we are pretty good defensively, and I don't think Roy is doing bad for what he is being asked to do right now. When our secondary gets healthy, and we can afford having Roy not bearing as much of a coverage responsibility as he is right now, even though he is doing, as we can ALL agree, an adequate job, than we will get to see Roy at his best.

That is my whole point....I did not say he sucked...nor did I say he was having a bad year....I only pointed out things that he could improve on in relation to the article.....Roy is an average SS that probably ranks higher than other SS's in the league primarily because of his ability against the run...Some may say Polamalu is better, but that could be because he's always flying around looking like a wildman in a jungle kind of like Bill Bates did when he first came into the league........

 

[zrinkill]

You don't get it, when Roy makes a pick it's the QB fault, a bad throw, bad QB, the WR fault, a garbage time pick. Pick one. But when he gets beat, misses a tackle (he does do all those once in a while) LOOK OUT the board goes into meltdown mode.

 

[dcowboysfan76]

Obviously, you've conceded that you can't support any of your statement and are just being ridiculous now.
Nope, haven't conceded just tired of going around in circles with a Roy W homer....I don't need to give any examples because you've already seen them over Roy's career. Not everything he's done is predicated on this year. I could give you booku examples but I don't have that kind of time to research games that I've taped....but you know the plays are out there....

Like I said earlier, there's no perfect player in the NFL. That means everyone has flaws and makes mistakes, including Roy. But he's FAR better than "average."
I already told you that you were right....Roy is superman



The Saints completed only two passes against Roy. If Peyton knew Roy couldn't cover, why didn't they throw at him more often?
Ok



Or could it be that every safety gets beaten now and then? Nah.
That's why Roy doesn't make quilts and he's a football player


Petty namecalling -- the last resort for those with no substance to their argument.
Didn't think you would get offended, I apologize

Have you come up with any examples of a horse collar because he "took a bad angle"? How about any examples this season of Roy biting on play action and not having recovery speed to make up for it? I didn't think so.

You've got to be kidding me? I told you Roy was able to out run locomotives.....My mistake, he hasn't bitten on a play action pass.....You win.....I forgot that Roy runs a 4.2.......You win the debate, the argument, the dialogue, etc.....You are a Roy homer, and it's useless whereas I am a Cowboys' fan and I see the reality that Roy is average...

 

[zrinkill]

You've got to be kidding me? I told you Roy was able to out run locomotives.....My mistake, he hasn't bitten on a play action pass.....You win.....I forgot that Roy runs a 4.2.......You win the debate, the argument, the dialogue, etc.....You are a Roy homer, and it's useless whereas I am a Cowboys' fan and I see the reality that Roy is average...

So when you cannot answer any questions given to you ..... the person who asks them becomes a "Roy Homer" .....

Only someone who knows nothing about the game of football would think Roy Williams is an average football player.

 

[JPM]

Petty namecalling

He's been doing that for a couple page now.

 

[adamknite]

I saw this coming........nevertheless Roy inspite of his coverage issues is the best at his position as compared to the SS that I can think of......

1. Polamalu is faster than Roy, but lacks discipline....
2. Dawkins is a FS
3. Landry = unproven
4. Mike Brown could be considered better....he's faster, better in coverage and will lay the wood on you.
5. Reed is a FS
6. Sharper is better in coverage but not against the run
7. Adrian Wilson is not all that good in coverage but he's decent

You've got to be kidding me? I told you Roy was able to out run locomotives.....My mistake, he hasn't bitten on a play action pass.....You win.....I forgot that Roy runs a 4.2.......You win the debate, the argument, the dialogue, etc.....You are a Roy homer, and it's useless whereas I am a Cowboys' fan and I see the reality that Roy is average...

If Roy is the best SS, and he's only "average" what does that make every other SS in the league?

So you don't have a problem with Roy's play really, technically you have a problem with the whole leagues play from the SS position? And Roy just happens to be the thinnest kid at a fat camp, it all makes perfect sense now.

 

[dcowboysfan76]

So when you cannot answer any questions given to you ..... the person who asks them becomes a "Roy Homer" .....

Only someone who knows nothing about the game of football would think Roy Williams is an average football player.

I've already answered the questions......I've also changed my mind, Roy W is a superior athlete.....he's the best darn rootin tootin SS in the universe.....also I'm quite sure that I know just about as much about football as you do.....I along with many others on this board played it since I was a 5 up until my collegiate years.....

 

[zrinkill]

He's been doing that for a couple page now.

What do you expect ..... the guys argument is that Roy is the best Strong Safety in the league ..... but he is average.



How the heck can someone take that seriously?