ARTICLE: Former Cowboy Mel Renfro has advice for S Roy Williams

[dcowboysfan76]

How did you come to that conclusion, Sherlock?



Wait...didn't you just say



Something tells me you didn't think your cunning point of view the whole way through.

No I think that you've been missing my point.....

 

[Jarv]

I haven't read all the pages in this thread, but didn't Darren Woodsen say the same thing about Roy a couple of years ago ? He also mentioned that JJ would make Woodsen cover in practice as a corner to increase his coverage skills ? He said that would be good for Roy also.

 

[zrinkill]

Bob Sanders
Even though he's old, I wouldn't mind having Rodney Harrison.

You even said yourself you'd take LaRon Landry over Roy so there's 1 for you apparently, pretty hypocritical huh????

Neither Sanders or Harrison have made as many big plays in coverage as Roy for the past 4 years.

And I said Landry was not as good as Roy yet ..... I would take him only because of his youth and his upside ..... Roy is still a better strong safety.

Nothing hypocritical about it kid ..... I am not the one complaining about Roy's coverage and then naming 2 guys who are not as good in coverage as replacements .... thats hypocrisy.

 

[Cowboyz88]

Come on guys, Roy is great. The stats bare it out.

Milli Vanilli and Vanilla Ice sold MILLIONS of albums, so they are awesome.

He's RoyfreakingWilliams, dangit, and you can't keep him down, no matter what your feelings, years of fandom and gut instincts tell you.

Chuck Norris has NOTHING on Roy.

Long pass completed? It's on the freaking CB's.

#31 misses a tackle? Optical illusion, because Reeves, number thirty-FIVE, is moving so fast it only LOOKS like #31.

Roy being stonewalled on a blitz? Nonsense...he's just playing nice as doesn't want to show the other guy up.

Because his playing close to the line makes him AWESOME, he's spreading out all of his gimme sacks to his teammates.

You can't keep Roy down!

 

[superpunk]

No I think that you've been missing my point.....

Am I?

WAKE UP!!! Roy needs to improve, and you guys just need to accept it....He will always be judged by the common fans because we expect better from a high paid player....We want better than average ......Is that too much to ask?

Roy inspite of his coverage issues is the best at his position as compared to the SS that I can think of......

So, either all safeties in the league except for Roy are basically worth as much as soggy lettuce, or you have no idea what your point is. First Roy's the best SS in the league, then Roy is just average...who can keep it straight?

 

[WoodysGirl]

IMO, acceptable above average play from Roy would be for him to improve in coverage.

Such as what? Like what tangible evidence would you have to see per game to make you believe that he's improved in coverage? That's what I mean about not trotting out tired rhetoric.

How many times do I need to say it......that's the only thing he's lacking and in regards to your rhetoric remark, isn't that what we all do when we type our thoughts.....the only difference is when someone provides statistical data to back up their point.....

I'm not looking for statistical data. I'm just questioning that if Roy is a hindrance in coverage, what would you need to see to show that he's improved?

 

[zrinkill]

I haven't read all the pages in this thread, but didn't Darren Woodsen say the same thing about Roy a couple of years ago ? He also mentioned that JJ would make Woodsen cover in practice as a corner to increase his coverage skills ? He said that would be good for Roy also.

I do not think anyone has a problem with what Mike said ..... its how the Roy haters are twisting it that many of us are taking exception too.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I haven't read all the pages in this thread, but didn't Darren Woodsen say the same thing about Roy a couple of years ago ? He also mentioned that JJ would make Woodsen cover in practice as a corner to increase his coverage skills ? He said that would be good for Roy also.

I posted that blurb in this thread as well.

 

[DallasDomination]

He must be a hater for even thinking bad about Roy...no way that can be true..Not our Roy Williams .

 

[dcowboysfan76]

I do not think anyone has a problem with what Mike said ..... its how the Roy haters are twisting it that many of us are taking exception too.

Please don't include me in the RWHC.....I'm on record for saying that I like RoyW......no sarcasm........I just want him to improve in coverage

 

[Vertigo_17]

From a trickblue recap from last year... This is what Woody had to say, which is very similar to what Mel Renfro said about footwork.



LINK

OMG - How dare Woodson

 

[AdamJT13]

1. Takes bad angles

Every secondary player takes bad angles. Watch any safety closely, and you'll see the same thing. That's because offensive players don't stand still. When you're running up from 8-10 yards deep, the ball doesn't always end up where you think it will.

which is why he's always horse collaring someone

Horse collars have nothing to do with taking bad angles. In fact, try to name one of Roy's horse collars that was the result of taking a bad angle.

2. Focuses on the big hit when in all actuality he ends up looking like a pin ball flipper....(perfect case and point the big play against the Bears TE)

And yet he misses fewer tackles than a lot of supposedly "better" tackling safeties.

3, Has coverage issues when there is space either between himself and the LB, or himself and the CB.....examples last year against the Seahawks, Saints, this year against the Giants.

"When there is space" between them? When ISN'T there space between them?

4. Doesn't seem that he has improved much from his second year with the Cowboys.

Or maybe it's just difficult to notice the improvement in players who start out at a high level.

....each year it's status quo Roy getting torched in coverage.......

He's hardly been torched in coverage this season. Other than one bad play against Burress in the opener, he's been covering well.

5. Is always caught looking in the backfield and he bites hard on the play action which is critical because he lacks recovery speed....

Name one play this season when that has happened.

 

[Jarv]

I posted that blurb in this thread as well.

Sorry WG, should have known you would remember that...Just busy at work here and too busy to read 10 pages.

 

[dcowboysfan76]

Every secondary player takes bad angles. Watch any safety closely, and you'll see the same thing. That's because offensive players don't stand still. When you're running up from 8-10 yards deep, the ball doesn't always end up where you think it will.
I'm not talking about every other safety, I'm talking about Roy W.



Horse collars have nothing to do with taking bad angles. In fact, try to name one of Roy's horse collars that was the result of taking a bad angle.
Horse collars have a lot to do with it, because of his lack of speed and his being out of position, he's constantly at a bad angle and has to resort to that particular tackling style or allow a bigger gain




And yet he misses fewer tackles than a lot of supposedly "better" tackling safeties.
I have not included any supposedly better tackling safeties in my posts, just maybe better coverage safeties



"When there is space" between them? When ISN'T there space between them?
Please don't be sarcastic, you know exactly what I mean....if Roy has no coverage help, and he's forced to be responsible for a TE or a WR he's usually unsuccessful



Or maybe it's just difficult to notice the improvement in players who start out at a high level.
High level? Usually rookies are not expected to be Pro Bowlers on their very first year.....It usually takes at least 3 before they are determined to be a bust....Roy exceeded expectations and has not improved much from his second year in the NFL in the intangibles (statistics are often misleading)




He's hardly been torched in coverage this season. Other than one bad play against Burress in the opener, he's been covering well.
Keywork "hardly"....the season has hardly begun....btw there were two plays against Plaxico.....as well as others that could've been avoided

 

[dcowboysfan76]

Am I?





So, either all safeties in the league except for Roy are basically worth as much as soggy lettuce, or you have no idea what your point is. First Roy's the best SS in the league, then Roy is just average...who can keep it straight?

Dude, once again:

1. I like Roy W.
2. In my original post I believe I said he's the best at his position versus other SS I can think of
3. I'm arguing that he's still average, meaning he hasn't really separated himself from the others that are marginal
4. His coverage skills are suspect.......

My friend I like Roy W, but I am not in love with Roy W like I am the Cowboys....with that in mind I haven't said anything crazy like trade him, release him, bench him.....We don't have a Plan B.....I just think that he can improve based off the original comments by Renfro....

 

[DC_Addict]

It is not a secret and there is nothing disrespectful about giving advice. Hopefully Roy will take it and work on making improvements within his game. I like Roy and have seen him make many big plays for us but if you can do something to correct a weakness in your game then do it.

Exactly. Mel has only good intentions in giving his advice and Roy needs to listen. Mel was a great player and he knows what he's talking about.:starspin I've met him and he's a great guy and he's still a die-hard Cowboy.

 

[AdamJT13]

I'm not talking about every other safety, I'm talking about Roy W.

So you expect Roy to be able to do something that no other player can do?

Horse collars have a lot to do with it, because of his lack of speed and his being out of position, he's constantly at a bad angle and has to resort to that particular tackling style or allow a bigger gain

Like I said, name ONE horse collar that was the result of Roy taking a bad angle.

I have not included any supposedly better tackling safeties in my posts, just maybe better coverage safeties

Then why did you bring up tackling?

Please don't be sarcastic, you know exactly what I mean....if Roy has no coverage help, and he's forced to be responsible for a TE or a WR he's usually unsuccessful

Um, no. Roy is often responsible for a tight end or wide receiver, and he's rarely unsuccessful. He's on the field for every play, you know, and he rarely allows a completion. Even when he's thrown at, he's usually succesful -- he allowed one of the lowest completion rates of any safety last season.

High level? Usually rookies are not expected to be Pro Bowlers on their very first year.....It usually takes at least 3 before they are determined to be a bust....Roy exceeded expectations and has not improved much from his second year in the NFL in the intangibles (statistics are often misleading)

Roy wasn't a Pro Bowl player in his first year, either. He started out playing at a high level and has pretty much maintained it his entire career.

Keywork "hardly"....the season has hardly begun....btw there were two plays against Plaxico.

So what was this supposed "other" play against Burress when Roy was beaten in coverage?

....as well as others that could've been avoided

Yep -- but very few of them.

If you want perfection, you'll never find it from an NFL player.

 

[dcowboysfan76]

Such as what? Like what tangible evidence would you have to see per game to make you believe that he's improved in coverage? That's what I mean about not trotting out tired rhetoric.
I'm not looking for statistical data. I'm just questioning that if Roy is a hindrance in coverage, what would you need to see to show that he's improved?

It's not necessarily per game WG that I would need to see it, because we all know that playing in the secondary everyone will get toasted every now and then, however with Roy W it's the same thing every time he gets burnt....he's caught looking in the backfield which causes him to be in bad positions and angles, when if he was disciplined he could defend more plays and possibly make more interceptions.....Roy IMO just needs to study more....I can't say if he doesn't listen to his coaches but I can say for sure that if he applied himself and dedicated himself to his craft then he could correct his coverage defieciency..........

I apologize for taking your rhetoric remark out of context.......

 

[dcowboysfan76]

So you expect Roy to be able to do something that no other player can do?
Not talking about other players, just want him to be better in coverage





Then why did you bring up tackling?
Tackling was brought up because he gets away from fundamentals sometimes...no big deal...it's just a remark since it was asked of me what I would like to see from him....




Um, no. Roy is often responsible for a tight end or wide receiver, and he's rarely unsuccessful. He's on the field for every play, you know, and he rarely allows a completion. Even when he's thrown at, he's usually succesful -- he allowed one of the lowest completion rates of any safety last season.

Like I said earlier stats don't show the intangibles....there is no stat to measure position, angle, bad coverage technique....Go back and watch the game winning interception against the Eagles since you want to talk about last year....Roy was out of position then...he was lucky the ball came his way....



Roy wasn't a Pro Bowl player in his first year, either. He started out playing at a high level and has pretty much maintained it his entire career.

Didn't say he was a Pro Bowler I said rookies are not expected to make the Pro Bowl their first year meaning that they are not held to high expectations, thus if they perform well it's a plus



So what was this supposed "other" play against Burress when Roy was beaten in coverage?
He scored on a 4 yard play against Williams and Reeves and a 10 yard play.....Roy could've disrupted both, but because he's not good in space.......you know the rest




Yep -- but very few of them.

If you want perfection, you'll never find it from an NFL player.

I don't want perfection, just better coverage skills

 

[Hostile]

I haven't seen Taylor getting ripped very often when he doesn't deserve to be. It's just that last season, Taylor deserved to be ripped more often than any other safety in at least a decade.

But it's natural for fans to criticize division rivals. I'm not talking about Commanders fans bashing Roy, I'm talking about OUR fans bashing Roy, even when he doesn't deserve it in the least.

Usually Taylor got ripped in threads comparing the two.

I agree, Roy has not deserved some of the crap here.