Attention all those that hate our draft!

[BAT]

I think I would have enjoyed your choices better too RW. : Ain't 20/20 hindsight a blast!?!

In addition, I would have traded our 2010 first rounder to the Bengals for Rey Maualuga or packaged a 2010 2nd plus Greg Ellis to Seattle for Max Unger.

Here's how my ST friendly draft would have looked:

3rd round:

#5: Michael Johnson, DE, Georgia Tech - rare size & athleticism, 10 career FF, 3 blocked kicks
#11: Jason Williams, ILB, Western Illinois - LB & ST playmaker, 14 career FF

4th rnd:

#101: Mike Thomas, WR, Arizona - also a returner
#110: Sammie Lee Hill, NT, Stillman - goal line TE, wedge buster, 45 career TFL, 14.5 career sacks, 8 career FF, 2 career INTS, 2 career TDs, former PK/LB/TE in high school
#120: James Casey, FB, Rice - also gunner, returner, LS

5th rnd:

#156: Joe Burnett, CB/KR, Central Florida - also a returner
#166: Herman Johnson, OG, LSU
#172: Michael Hamlin, S, Clemson

6th rnd:

#197: Stryker Sulak, OLB, Missouri - better against run than BW, 15.5 TFL, 10.5 sacks, 6 FF in 2008
#208: Zach Potter, DE, Nebraska - 16 TFL, 5 sacks, 2 INTs, 7 PBUs in 2008, 5 career blocked kicks
7th rnd:

#210: Mike Mikens, CB, Cincinnati
#227: Zack Follet, ILB, California - stellar ST player, explosive hitter, seeks to intimidate, 8 career FF (IMO would push Bradie James)#229: Mitch King, DL, Iowa - nickel & goal line specialist, true leader, Big 10 Dlineman of year 2008, career AVERAGES 12 TFL, 4 sacks, 3 FF

 

[Doomsday101]

This is the logic that doesn't make sense to me. Rather than look for potential starters, let's look for potential benchwarmers. Good call.

I think it's obvious to say I'd pick differently, but I'm not going to go into that. I think we all know that Jarron Gilbert was available when the Cowboys opted out of drafting. I think we all know Jason Phillips stayed on the board long enough for the Cowboys to pick him. I think we all know that James Casey was still available deep into the second day. Duke Robinson and Herman Johnson stuck around for quite some time. Johnny Knox was out there for awhile. But I'm not going to go there. My problem is this: I've read just about every article I possibly could have since draft talk began and the Cowboys preached Best Player Available throughout. And now in the wake of the draft all you can see them preaching about is Special Teams, which about half of this years crop of rookies were drafted specifically for. How is that following a BPA strategy? Is that not essentially drafting for need? Does anyone actually believe that any of the following players were the best players available at the given time they were drafted?

Western Illinois LB Jason Williams (third round, 69th overall) projected 4th-5th

Ball State OL Robert Brewster (third round, 75th overall) Projected 6th-7th

Texas A&M QB Stephen McGee (fourth round, 101st overall) projected 6th-7th

Oregon State DE/OLB Victor Butler (fourth round, 110th overall) projected 6th

Texas Tech DE/OLB Brandon Williams (fourth round, 120th overall) projected 4th-5th

Cincinnati CB/S DeAngelo Smith (fifth round, 143rd overall) projected 7th - FA

Clemson FS Michael Hamlin (fifth round, 166th overall) projected 3rd - 4th

USC K/special teamer David Buehler (fifth round, 172nd overall) projected 5th - 6th

TCU S/LB Stephen Hodge (sixth round, 197th overall) projected 7th - FA

Virginia TE John Phillips (sixth round, 208th overall) projected 6th - 7th

Cincinnati CB Mike Mickens (seventh round, 227th overall) projected 3rd - 4th

Oklahoma WR Manuel Johnson (seventh round, 229th overall) prjected 7th - FA

It seems to me, if they had their collective heart set on keeping the benches warm this coming season, the least they could have done was traded all their picks to own the 5th round and below and a few picks for next year rather than commit more money to an undeserving player who was drafted before he needed to be.

Where are you getting your projected from?

 

[jday]

http://www.BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1/draft2009WR.php

Granted, it's not 100% accurate, but it's pretty close.

 

[Bach]

Bach, every team has a lot of "ifs" with their draft picks. And you can't grade a draft until after a few years.

That's what we were told in the mid to late 90's too. Unfortunately most of the early grades were accurate or were better than what it turned out to be years later.

Again, when was the last time we had a draft rated below average and then years later look back and it was proven to be an "A" or "B" draft?

I sure can't think of any in the last 15 years. If anything we've had some that initially had good grades, like 2002, that ended up poor - but not the other way around.

 

[BAT]

They should have been making plans to boldly go up in the draft to get better players like Ungar instead of looking of ways to stay at 51. The Stooges running Valley Ranch couldn't draft their way out of a paper bag...

Same thing in the Third... We should have used some of those picks we had to get the best available player at the bottom of the second.

Very bad braintrust we have running the Dallas Cowboys I'd say.:bang2:

I would have to agree on this point. When Mack was taken by the Browns, and then Woods was taken very soon thereafter in the first, I am surprised that the Cowboys FO did not look to move up then. Unger was the last of the top tier center/guards left with about 20-25 picks before the Cowboys #51.


Perhaps they weren't THAT high on Unger after all. Although, they sure looked confused and panicked when Seattle moved up and snatched him from right under their noses. Jerry & Stephen looked almost too comfortable up to that point.

 

[TheDude]

While I agree Parcells was finished as a coach and didn't hit on 100% of his picks, he was pretty prophetic when saying that the Cowboys are the one team that after 3 years of him being gone, you never would have known he was there.

This draft is right now a complete failure and how ANYONE can argue to the contrary is disingenuous. Maybe some players will surprise, but its never sound to hope and pray 4th - 7ths turn out to be Jay Ratliffs more than 10% of the time

1. You cannot look at any part of the RW trade and equate that to a success. We got 180 yards in 10 games last year. And he didn't quite "put us over the top". Waiting it out, you could have had Bolden for a second or likely RW for a 3rd. That move reeks of desperation and big name love. RW will NEVER be worth a 1st and a 3rd. The only way RW was worth a 1 and 3 is if he might have posted 500 yds and 6 TDs in 10 games. While not all his fault, his routes were uninspired and sloppy (see Balt game and others). Its not as if Aikman and other pundits were lauding the move.
2. If,as everyone says, the Cowboys are moving to a more "run oriented" offense, you don't need a spend a 1 and 3 on a WR. The issue here is that no one from Jerry to J Garrett know what this team's identity is. They are reacting. Now I hear we are goig to "wildcat" and take your Pro Bowl QB off the field for 1/5 of the game.
3. Now you trade out of the 2nd round to pick up 2 3rds. Only 45 can play on game day. We are deficient at safety and ILB and DT/DE. Plus one pick is a K - so now you have 41 positions that are not kickers/snappers. 2 QBs, 4 RB/FBs, 5 WR, 2 TEs, 8 OL, 4 DL, 7 LBs, 5 CBs, 4 Sfty for game day.
4. While I don't think mgmt should believe this team is "1-2 players" away, we are not 10 backups away either.

The last 2 years have been some of the worst moves in JJ history. Sign Floz A and watch him look old, Sign TO to big deal and cut him next year, Give up 3 picks for a WR that contributed nothing, move down for "back ups" and "prospects". The Eagles and Patriots and Giants and others have a completely different philosophy, and that is why they are more consistent.

The overall issue with the Cowboys is that they threw the baby out with the bath water. Go 13-3 with Offense A and follow up with a 9-7 with your QB hurt for 3 games, now you decide to be completely different direction with the same staff that was in place for 13-3.

NE didn't change when Brady went down, they had someone "prepared" to take over. Who exactly ran the ball for NE to help Cassell?

If JJ wanted to fix the issue, you :

1. fire ANY COACH who evaluated B Johnson. Everybody saw preseason, sometimes it is obvious even to those who are not "in the know". If it was Jerry alone, fire anyone who agreed with the assessment
2. Fire Wade or J Garrett, you can't have Wade going into the last year as a lame duck when he hasn't won anything. PLayers know he is a lame duck and will work for or in spite of Garrett. Garrett proved last year he was scant more than Barry Switzer in 1995. He could not find an answer to get RW the ball (or as many people want to blame TO, he was too weak pull rank). Eiher way, story goes he pushed for Brad Johnson - if so - bye.
3. Tony Romo has to be on a leash. The turnovers are too common and too costly and too predictable. Whatever needs to change, should have changed before now.

Football is about execution, but if the FO can't execute strategy 1 with this talent, it is not surprising the players underachieve

 

[Bach]

This draft is right now a complete failure and how ANYONE can argue to the contrary is disingenuous. Maybe some players will surprise, but its never sound to hope and pray 4th - 7ths turn out to be Jay Ratliffs more than 10% of the time
[

You know it isn't good when the best the most homeristic fan on here can come up with is "wait and see 3 years from now".

And BP sure was prophetic, because it didn't take long for Jerry and company to turn right around and start drafting scrubs and special teamers throughout the draft again. That philosophy is in line with what they did in '95 and '96. The other philosophy is throw a number of picks at one of two positions, ala 2000 when we took Goodrich, Larrimore and M. Edwards at CB. This year we loaded up with a bunch of DB's and LB's and looked for special teamers and depth. A totally ******** philosophy by one of the worst owner/GM's in the league this side of Al Davis.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Good grief, how many times are people going to claim that we drafted guys like Brewster two and three rounds early because a draft website like Walterfootball (who is Walter anyway?) had him as a 6th rounder?

Are we really going to put the opinion of draft dorks working out of their mother's basement over Gosselin, who talks to actual professionals about this stuff?

 

[Bach]

Good grief, how many times are people going to claim that we drafted guys like Brewster two and three rounds early because a draft website like Walterfootball (who is Walter anyway?) had him as a 6th rounder?

Are we really going to put the opinion of draft dorks working out of their mother's basement over Gosselin, who talks to actual professionals about this stuff?

There are many that talk to actual professionals and are or have been NFL scouts that had him lower than the 3rd round.

Everyone on here wants to treat Gosselin like he's a draft god, but even he gave us a C, despite having our two 3rd round picks being projected in the 3rd round.

No matter how anyone spins it, this was a subpar draft and well below other teams in the division like the Eagles and Giants. If you don't believe me, then check Gosselin's grades since he's the resident guru.

 

[jday]

Good grief, how many times are people going to claim that we drafted guys like Brewster two and three rounds early because a draft website like Walterfootball (who is Walter anyway?) had him as a 6th rounder?

Are we really going to put the opinion of draft dorks working out of their mother's basement over Gosselin, who talks to actual professionals about this stuff?

Okay, so what did Gosselin say? Link please!

Believe me, I'd like to read someone who actually gives the Cowboys a good grade on this draft, because frankly I don't see it.

 

[Bach]

Okay, so what did Gosselin say? Link please!

Believe me, I'd like to read someone who actually gives the Cowboys a good grade on this draft, because frankly I don't see it.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152311

Also from Kiper:

Dallas Cowboys: GRADE: D

The Big D gets a D this year. They didn't get a lot of top-end talent due in part to their not having a pick until the third round, but they then went out and reached on Jason Williams and Robert Brewster. Victor Butler is a decent pick, as is Brandon Williams, but I'm not enamored with any of their later picks. They got players that could help them in terms of depth, but no one who is going to really strengthen this football team.



Pretty much what many have been saying. Special teamers and depth. I guess Jerry succeeded in his plan but failed overall.

 

[jjktkk]

Actually it depends on whether they go with his info and reports or not. The scouting director can provide all the info but if he isn't the one calling the shots in the war room and the coaches and Jerry opt for drafting special teamers or whatnot, then it all goes for naught. The main thing is you need to be able to compile the board and then trust it and make wise choices. Too often that hasn't been the case the last 20 years when Jimmy or Parcells haven't been in the room.

Bach, why don't you just come out say what your signature pick says? You can't stand Jerry Jones. Yea Jerry definitly has make some bone head draft picks in his tenure, but Jimmy and Bill, although great talent evaluators, had their share of screwups in the draft as well. How about the Cowboys under Bill's regime drafting Bobby Carpenter, Jacob Rogers, and Stephen Petermen, to name a few. Heck even Jimmy missed on some high picks in his day. Alexander Wright was a bust, Robert Jones, just average at best. Russell Maryland, while a solid player, was not worth the overall number one pick. How about Alvin Harper. Great talent, but he sure flamed out after a few seasons in the league. Bottom line is even great talent evaluators like Jimmy and Bill are not immune to draft dat blunders. I'm still pissed at Parcell's drafting Carpenter. So Bach just come and say it buddy.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

There are many that talk to actual professionals and are or have been NFL scouts that had him lower than the 3rd round.

Everyone on here wants to treat Gosselin like he's a draft god, but even he gave us a C, despite having our two 3rd round picks being projected in the 3rd round.

No matter how anyone spins it, this was a subpar draft and well below other teams in the division like the Eagles and Giants. If you don't believe me, then check Gosselin's grades since he's the resident guru.

Actually, Gosselin's draft grades -- unless he changed his system this year -- are based entirely upon a point system and take into account only the 100 players on his board. His comments generally are indicative of his opinion of a particular draft.

 

[Bach]

Bach, why don't you just come out say what your signature pick says? You can't stand Jerry Jones. Yea Jerry definitly has make some bone head draft picks in his tenure, but Jimmy and Bill, although great talent evaluators, had their share of screwups in the draft as well. How about the Cowboys under Bill's regime drafting Bobby Carpenter, Jacob Rogers, and Stephen Petermen, to name a few. Heck even Jimmy missed on some high picks in his day. Alexander Wright was a bust, Robert Jones, just average at best. Russell Maryland, while a solid player, was not worth the overall number one pick. How about Alvin Harper. Great talent, but he sure flamed out after a few seasons in the league. Bottom line is even great talent evaluators like Jimmy and Bill are not immune to draft dat blunders. I'm still pissed at Parcell's drafting Carpenter. So Bach just come and say it buddy.

The proof is in the pudding. Last year we had a good draft and I said it.

The consensus, and I agree, is that this year is a subpar draft. Most give it a C/D grade. What do you want, everyone to say we got an "A" just because we are Cowboys fans? Sorry that some of you don't live in the real world where people are objective.

And it's true everyone in the history of the league has missed on some picks. But if you look at our drafts the last 20 years, we had great drafts the 5 years Jimmy was here - had terrible drafts for most of the next 9 years Jerry and Lacewell ran the show - and then rebounded with mostly above average to good drafts when BP/Ireland were here. Last year was about the only draft in the 10 years were neither Jimmy or BP weren't in Dallas. This year, on the other hand, looks to be more like the late 90's Jerry/Lacewell concoctions.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Okay, so what did Gosselin say? Link please!

Believe me, I'd like to read someone who actually gives the Cowboys a good grade on this draft, because frankly I don't see it.

He has a weird way to grade drafts, but his Top 100 is here...

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151624

Gosselin had Brewster as the #81 player in the draft. We took him at #75. Very close.

 

[silver]

While I agree Parcells was finished as a coach and didn't hit on 100% of his picks, he was pretty prophetic when saying that the Cowboys are the one team that after 3 years of him being gone, you never would have known he was there.

This draft is right now a complete failure and how ANYONE can argue to the contrary is disingenuous. Maybe some players will surprise, but its never sound to hope and pray 4th - 7ths turn out to be Jay Ratliffs more than 10% of the time

1. You cannot look at any part of the RW trade and equate that to a success. We got 180 yards in 10 games last year. And he didn't quite "put us over the top". Waiting it out, you could have had Bolden for a second or likely RW for a 3rd. That move reeks of desperation and big name love. RW will NEVER be worth a 1st and a 3rd. The only way RW was worth a 1 and 3 is if he might have posted 500 yds and 6 TDs in 10 games. While not all his fault, his routes were uninspired and sloppy (see Balt game and others). Its not as if Aikman and other pundits were lauding the move.
2. If,as everyone says, the Cowboys are moving to a more "run oriented" offense, you don't need a spend a 1 and 3 on a WR. The issue here is that no one from Jerry to J Garrett know what this team's identity is. They are reacting. Now I hear we are goig to "wildcat" and take your Pro Bowl QB off the field for 1/5 of the game.
3. Now you trade out of the 2nd round to pick up 2 3rds. Only 45 can play on game day. We are deficient at safety and ILB and DT/DE. Plus one pick is a K - so now you have 41 positions that are not kickers/snappers. 2 QBs, 4 RB/FBs, 5 WR, 2 TEs, 8 OL, 4 DL, 7 LBs, 5 CBs, 4 Sfty for game day.
4. While I don't think mgmt should believe this team is "1-2 players" away, we are not 10 backups away either.

The last 2 years have been some of the worst moves in JJ history. Sign Floz A and watch him look old, Sign TO to big deal and cut him next year, Give up 3 picks for a WR that contributed nothing, move down for "back ups" and "prospects". The Eagles and Patriots and Giants and others have a completely different philosophy, and that is why they are more consistent.

The overall issue with the Cowboys is that they threw the baby out with the bath water. Go 13-3 with Offense A and follow up with a 9-7 with your QB hurt for 3 games, now you decide to be completely different direction with the same staff that was in place for 13-3.

NE didn't change when Brady went down, they had someone "prepared" to take over. Who exactly ran the ball for NE to help Cassell?

If JJ wanted to fix the issue, you :

1. fire ANY COACH who evaluated B Johnson. Everybody saw preseason, sometimes it is obvious even to those who are not "in the know". If it was Jerry alone, fire anyone who agreed with the assessment
2. Fire Wade or J Garrett, you can't have Wade going into the last year as a lame duck when he hasn't won anything. PLayers know he is a lame duck and will work for or in spite of Garrett. Garrett proved last year he was scant more than Barry Switzer in 1995. He could not find an answer to get RW the ball (or as many people want to blame TO, he was too weak pull rank). Eiher way, story goes he pushed for Brad Johnson - if so - bye.
3. Tony Romo has to be on a leash. The turnovers are too common and too costly and too predictable. Whatever needs to change, should have changed before now.

Football is about execution, but if the FO can't execute strategy 1 with this talent, it is not surprising the players underachieve

excelent post. i couldn't agree more. this draft was doomed in october of 2008.

 

[Doomsday101]

The proof is in the pudding. Last year we had a good draft and I said it.

The consensus, and I agree, is that this year is a subpar draft. Most give it a C/D grade. What do you want, everyone to say we got an "A" just because we are Cowboys fans? Sorry that some of you don't live in the real world where people are objective.

And it's true everyone in the history of the league has missed on some picks. But if you look at our drafts the last 20 years, we had great drafts the 5 years Jimmy was here - had terrible drafts for most of the next 9 years Jerry and Lacewell ran the show - and then rebounded with mostly above average to good drafts when BP/Ireland were here. Last year was about the only draft in the 10 years were neither Jimmy or BP weren't in Dallas. This year, on the other hand, looks to be more like the late 90's Jerry/Lacewell concoctions.

Chances are you will not get an A unless you have a 1st rd pick since that is the pick all these so called experts focus on. I think at this stage saying this draft was a C would be correct however that does not mean Dallas was drafting so called career backups or that this is Jerry and Larry all over again. Just as some may go over the top with praise on anything there are some who find nothing but negitive. This was a weak draft class and without having a 1 or a early 2nd the grade was not going to be great.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

McLovin gets post of the day honors. Nice job.

 

[Bach]

Chances are you will not get an A unless you have a 1st rd pick since that is the pick all these so called experts focus on. I think at this stage saying this draft was a C would be correct however that does not mean Dallas was drafting so called career backups or that this is Jerry and Larry all over again. Just as some may go over the top with praise on anything there are some who find nothing but negitive. This was a weak draft class and without having a 1 or a early 2nd the grade was not going to be great.

That's true. But we also are the ones who handicapped ourselves by trading away our first and second round picks.

I'm right on the line of giving us a D+/C-. I think those that have us right next to or above the Raiders as worst draft have gone overboard. But I think this was a subpar draft for us and worse than at least two other teams in our division and will hurt us in the long run.

 

[Doomsday101]

That's true. But we also are the ones who handicapped ourselves by trading away our first and second round picks.

I'm right on the line of giving us a D+/C-. I think those that have us right next to or above the Raiders as worst draft have gone overboard. But I think this was a subpar draft for us and worse than at least two other teams in our division and will hurt us in the long run.

And if Williams does live up to his ability then it was not wasted and his addition to the team becomes big. As for the 2nd rd there was nothing that great at 51 Dallas was better off moving out and picking up the extra pick than to just select at 51 just so some cowboy fan with a draft day party did not get hacked off. Looking at what came after 51 was not very impressive