Big 12 future looks bright without TX & OU

[Diehardblues]

I think a regional resorting would be good. The West could be OU, UT, A&M, MO, AR, LSU, TN, MSST and the East could be FL, SC, GA, AL, AU, MS, Vandy and KY. As you can clearly see, I have an ulterior motive, get Bama the hell out of AR's division.

Prior historied rivalries will take precedence. A&M and Arkansas only ones in West without those deeply seeded history in SEC. I’d wager one of them will moved over to East. That might be best bet to get Bama out of your division

Geographically the obvious choice is Auburn moving to East but they might want to keep their yearly rivalry with Alabama. SEC will most likely side on their older schools preference .

Personally I don’t know why Texas and OU have to be in same division. They could still play their Red River rivalry without being in same division. Unless they’re throwing that out the door too . We really haven’t heard what conditions they agreed to.

 

[Diehardblues]

I hear you, but I was addressing the post that was discussing recent history specifically,
so I addressed it.

50 years ago....or even 20 years ago...is not recent.

Incoming freshman weren't even born 20 years ago

Depends how old you are. For me since 1960 is modern era.

But you responded to my post in which I didn’t mention anything about recent history.

 

[StylisticS]

Guess you miss who we beat. More impressive than texas

I didn’t miss it. I just don’t think in the long run mizzou will be better.

 

[jterrell]

I hear you, but I was addressing the post that was discussing recent history specifically,
so I addressed it.

50 years ago....or even 20 years ago...is not recent.

Incoming freshman weren't even born 20 years ago

Championships are a pretty awful way to judge conferences.
Its a nice feather in a cap but it has zero to do with overall quality.
Gonzaga being awesome at basketball doesn't make their conference awesome.

And if only championships matter 95% of all teams are meaningless.
Its goofy stuff for some team that has never won a title to pretend titles are all that matter in order to champion a conference.

Part of why we need an expanded playoff is just that.
Create a relevant level of 12-16 teams that represent tourney teams.
Those teams are the highest tier and being in that tier is what matters.
Week in and week out quality football or basketball matters.
No one wants to watch a trouncing or just low level play in general.
And you are right about kids not caring. But they also don't care about 10 years ago. They are 17/18.
They maybe care about the last 5 years if that.

Facts are pretty simple.
SEC and B1G are rock solid.
Enough helmet schools with massive fan bases to ensure they remain part of the discussion and carry weight.
Pac16, ACC and B12 all have work to do.
I am a Big 12 guy and I'd argue it is pretty easy to suggest the Big 12 is currently the best of those 3 conferences in combined football/basketball.
Higher level of play week in and week out in BOTH sports.
BUT I also know which conference just got raided once again.
UT Greed had to go. It was killing the conference literally.
The B12 absolutely has to continue to build football programs that matter and maintain the level of basketball play that has become the best in the country.
The Big 12 chose to add the best 4 teams possible. And in many ways they beat the dead weight schools other confs carry.
I'd rather have all 4 over Vanderbilt or Rutgers or Colorado.

The Big 12 minus OU/UT this year in top 16:
Football:
Cincy 4
Baylor 7
OKST 9
BYU 13

Basketball:
Baylor 1
Kansas 7
Iowa State 11
Houston 14.

So new Big 12 represents 25% of the top 16 in EACH sport this year.
This is why the conference will be more than OK.
It has a high caliber of play right now.

 

[jterrell]

I didn’t miss it. I just don’t think in the long run mizzou will be better.

Not sure why keeps bringing this up ... Missou beat no one this year.
They won all of 3 P5 games and that was to 2-win Vandy, moribund South Carolina and a Coachless Florida in OT.
They lost 4 of their 8 SEC games by 17 or more.

Texas was trash this year but they beat the Sun belt champ 12-1 Louisiana team, and 2 more Big 12 Bowl teams. Texas was awful but they do actually play people.
They played 10 P5 games losing only 2 of them by double digits.

 

[CouchCoach]

Prior historied rivalries will take precedence. A&M and Arkansas only ones in West without those deeply seeded history in SEC. I’d wager one of them will moved over to East. That might be best bet to get Bama out of your division

Geographically the obvious choice is Auburn moving to East but they might want to keep their yearly rivalry with Alabama. SEC will most likely side on their older schools preference .

Personally I don’t know why Texas and OU have to be in same division. They could still play their Red River rivalry without being in same division. Unless they’re throwing that out the door too . We really haven’t heard what conditions they agreed to.

Red River rivalry doesn't need them in the same conference, that is a recent development.

I think since the SEC didn't really go after OU or UT, they don't get a vote like the other schools.

That pod setup that jterrell suggested has been around but that is not from the SEC, that's a lot of conjecture. We don't know what they're thinking or just when OU and UT are looking to make the move yet. By the ranking of UT's recruiting class, they think it's sooner than later.

 

[jterrell]

Red River rivalry doesn't need them in the same conference, that is a recent development.

I think since the SEC didn't really go after OU or UT, they don't get a vote like the other schools.

That pod setup that jterrell suggested has been around but that is not from the SEC, that's a lot of conjecture. We don't know what they're thinking or just when OU and UT are looking to make the move yet. By the ranking of UT's recruiting class, they think it's sooner than later.

whew...........................
Texas finished 3rd in recruiting both 2018 and 2019. 2020 FELL all the way to... 9.
UT sucks of late yes but it has always recruited well.
This year they finished 5th which is in line with their average of the last 4 cycles.
Once UT starts adding graduate transfers and high number of JUCO guys you will know they mean to compete in the SEC immediately.

We do know UT aren't getting out soon because they JUST let a 12-15 deadline pass to get out in 18 months.
That is why UT folks are calling OU broke. OU wouldn't pay the buyout.
And the Big 12 owns their Tier 1 and 2 Media Rights until July 1 2025.
That is now the accepted date.
It would be nice that after I have told you and been proven right on this topic like 10 times you'd at least begin to treat it seriously enough to google it.....

**And the Pods will in fact be used. The only question is will they apply to football and exactly how the Pods will look.
If Teams are to play all other schools in the conference during a 4 year span and NOT go to a 9 game conf schedule (they most certainly will not want to do this) pods are the only feasible option.

 

[MizzouCowboy4]

Missouri was pretty good in football before they joined the SEC and lost access to most of the Texas recruits that had carried them..
See Nebraska as well. --tho Nebraska at least had Cali to fall back on.

Missou is a really good academic school now trying to compete with jethros and it is just really bad.

We had some east titles but we struggle to keep good kids in state

 

[MizzouCowboy4]

With 16 only sensible solution is pods.

West Pod

• Texas
• Oklahoma
• Missouri
• Arkansas

East Pod

• Florida
• Georgia
• South Carolina
• Kentucky

North Pod

• Tennessee
• Vanderbilt
• Alabama
• Auburn

South Pod

• LSU
• A&M
• Mississippi State
• Ole Miss

I like the west pod.

 

[StylisticS]

That West pod would benefit Arkansas in creating rivalries. They will of course renew the rivalry with Texas. But they will build one with Oklahoma and Missouri. Arkansas has had a hard time building a rivalry in the SEC even with LSU right there. LSU doesn't look at Arkansas as that big of a rival. But I think OU and Mizzou would. Of course, it will be extremely hard to pass up putting Texas and A&M in the same pod but I honestly hope the SEC puts them in different pods.

 

[Diehardblues]

Red River rivalry doesn't need them in the same conference, that is a recent development.

I think since the SEC didn't really go after OU or UT, they don't get a vote like the other schools.

That pod setup that jterrell suggested has been around but that is not from the SEC, that's a lot of conjecture. We don't know what they're thinking or just when OU and UT are looking to make the move yet. By the ranking of UT's recruiting class, they think it's sooner than later.

Yea, like I said we really don’t know if Tx or OU have agreed to any conference realignment. And we don’t know if they’ll leave early.

But I agree since they weren’t pursued by SEC they may have to take wherever they are placed with less voice than long standing schools.

 

[Diehardblues]

That West pod would benefit Arkansas in creating rivalries. They will of course renew the rivalry with Texas. But they will build one with Oklahoma and Missouri. Arkansas has had a hard time building a rivalry in the SEC even with LSU right there. LSU doesn't look at Arkansas as that big of a rival. But I think OU and Mizzou would. Of course, it will be extremely hard to pass up putting Texas and A&M in the same pod but I honestly hope the SEC puts them in different pods.

Yea, I’m not sure Aggies want to play Texas every year. Big part of why they left Big 12. I’m thinking A&M or maybe Arkansas might be interested in moving to East. And maybe Mizzou could move to West.

It’s going to be interesting . You can be sure there’s all types of lobbying and maneuvering going on behind the scenes.

But surely Tx and OU knew going in they may not be in same division.

 

[StylisticS]

Yea, I’m not sure Aggies want to play Texas every year. Big part of why they left Big 12. I’m thinking A&M or maybe Arkansas might be interested in moving to East. And maybe Mizzou could move to West.

It’s going to be interesting . You can be sure there’s all types of lobbying and maneuvering going on behind the scenes.

But surely Tx and OU knew going in they may not be in same division.

It doesn’t matter what any school wants to do. The sec will do what they will want to do. Personally, I wish Texas and OU didn’t go to the SEC. But I also wish the Big 12 had better teams as well. Still say Texas and OU going West would be a better balance for college football.

 

[Diehardblues]

It doesn’t matter what any school wants to do. The sec will do what they will want to do. Personally, I wish Texas and OU didn’t go to the SEC. But I also wish the Big 12 had better teams as well. Still say Texas and OU going West would be a better balance for college football.

The SEC is the schools and if there are some who don’t want to move over to East they will provide those objections. Just like Tx and Ou being accepted into conference the schools have to vote on it.

The more I think about this it appears unless some school offers or doesn’t object moving to East then Tx and OU are likely to be split up. Which is fine.

I don’t see any issue with that. And they can still keep their Red River rivalry if they choose. That might be the only stipulation they made.

 

[StylisticS]

The SEC is the schools and if there are some who don’t want to move over to East they will provide those objections. Just like Tx and Ou being accepted into conference the schools have to vote on it.

The more I think about this it appears unless some school offers or doesn’t object moving to East then Tx and OU are likely to be split up. Which is fine.

I don’t see any issue with that. And they can still keep their Red River rivalry if they choose. That might be the only stipulation they made.

I don't think you will see divisions. You will see pods.

 

[Diehardblues]

I don't think you will see divisions. You will see pods.

I’ve seen the Pod speculations but didn’t see how they’d conduct a rotation and or conference championship game.

Seems like it would be easier at this time to just add a team to each division maintaining current conference championship format. It would still leave playing two teams from other division and 3 non conference games .

If they stay with divisions how do you see that shaping up.?

 

[jterrell]

We had some east titles but we struggle to keep good kids in state

Missou just won't produce enough kids.
It's why the Texas ties were so important.
Chase Daniel and others lifted Missou, Texas was the 2nd biggest recruiting pipeline.
The 2009 Missou Tigers that finished top 20 had 29 Texans on the roster.

SEC was such a weird decision for Missouri who really performed well and benefitted from the Big 12.
All 50 states, ranked by their percentage of national blue-chip recruits - Banner Society

 

[jterrell]

I’ve seen the Pod speculations but didn’t see how they’d conduct a rotation and or conference championship game.

Seems like it would be easier at this time to just add a team to each division maintaining current conference championship format. It would still leave playing two teams from other division and 3 non conference games .

If they stay with divisions how do you see that shaping up.?

Pods are likely because:

Pod 1 plays two teams in pods 2,3,4, yearly Thats 6 games. You do home and away within a 4-year cycle.
Each Pod plays 1 Rivalry game within the Pod yearly. 7th game. That is yearly and makes for great TV ratings.
Each Pod plays 1 of the 2 remaining teams in their pod yearly so again you play all schools within a 4-year period both home and away.

This balances out wonderfully while maintaining the yearly rivalry games which draw massive ratings.
It also allows for variety.
And it keeps SEC at 8 games which is huge for higher ratings/rankings and fewer crushing losses to each other.

If you go 2 divisions of 8 it becomes a nightmare to maintain rivalry games, plus play everyone within a reasonable time frame and avoid boredom.
As scheduling becomes stale. You can play 4 games versus oppo div and 3 versus same with 1 rivalry game but you have far fewer options for varying the schedule yearly then with Pods.

And sports like baseball and basketball will need the Pods for certain. So easier to just be consistent.

 

[Diehardblues]

Pods are likely because:

Pod 1 plays two teams in pods 2,3,4, yearly Thats 6 games. You do home and away within a 4-year cycle.
Each Pod plays 1 Rivalry game within the Pod yearly. 7th game. That is yearly and makes for great TV ratings.
Each Pod plays 1 of the 2 remaining teams in their pod yearly so again you play all schools within a 4-year period both home and away.

This balances out wonderfully while maintaining the yearly rivalry games which draw massive ratings.
It also allows for variety.
And it keeps SEC at 8 games which is huge for higher ratings/rankings and fewer crushing losses to each other.

If you go 2 divisions of 8 it becomes a nightmare to maintain rivalry games, plus play everyone within a reasonable time frame and avoid boredom.
As scheduling becomes stale. You can play 4 games versus oppo div and 3 versus same with 1 rivalry game but you have far fewer options for varying the schedule yearly then with Pods.

And sports like baseball and basketball will need the Pods for certain. So easier to just be consistent.

Adding one team to each division doesn’t disrupt the rivalries or the scheduling.

 

[jterrell]

Adding one team to each division doesn’t disrupt the rivalries or the scheduling.

To be clear SEC scheduling now is trash.
There is zero balance because the SEC East is just bad and the SEC West is always stacked.
Georgia is probably the best team in NCAAF but the rest of the SEC East is just awful.
And teams play the most unbalanced random crap ever because 7 teams do not divide evenly.

So yes the SEC could forge down a trash can laden path if they so desire.
But it is unlikely. Especially if the goal is more watchable football.
Can't do Pods with 14 but you can, and should, 16.
In all likelihood part of why ESPN had the SEC take OU/UT was to create that Pod system and more watchable games.

ARK 2021:
Rice
UTexas --helmet school P5
Georgia Southern
Tamu -- ranked
Georgia -- ranked
Ole Miss -- ranked
Auburn
ARPB
Miss St -- ranked
LSU
Bama -- ranked
Missou

Kentucky 2021:
ULM
Missou
UTC
Scar
Florida
LSU
Georgia --ranked
Miss St --ranked
Tenn
Vandy
NMSU
Louisville -- rival P5

How are these two usually soft SEC teams schedules balanced AT ALL???