Bledsoe or McNabb?

[5Stars]

[/list]
[/list]He wasn't serious ...hence, my use of the word "cole" versus "coal."

OK...I figured you guys were messing wit me!

Carry on...

 

[Stash]

Do the research. There were most certainly players on the Bills team who were happy to see Bledsoe gone. This is really a pointless discussion. This perception of Bledsoe being a leader or not is inconclusive. What has Bledsoe done here to have people claim that Buffalo was wrong or right?

But it's been clearly shown that McNabb is not a leader. When the goin' gets tough, McNabb chokes - time and time again.

Same goes for McNappie. Is he a leader? There will always be guys in the club house who don't agree but you look to what the team says. They make the decisions. The team supports McNappie. That's the way it is. You ask what McNabb has done? Well, he lead his team to something like 3 consecutive NFC championship games. Not just a case of being the QB but actually being a player that has been directly responsible, through his play, for there success.

Of course they do - he's the company man. But when teammates publicly rush to Owen's aid over McNabb's it shows what they think of him as their leader.

And he choked in every big game he was ever in. And he was the direct cause of their ultimate demise as well.

The question here is who is the better QB? All of this BS about Bledsoe being the better leader or whatever is subjective. Bledsoe has done nothing to seperate himself as the superior leader. To say he has, is not a factual statement. It is an opinion. The numbers are quantifiable. They tell the story. If you can identify how Bledsoe has proven himself to be the better leader and thus, the better QB, proceed.

Only subjective to you. McNabb has clearly shown he doesn't have leadership ability or poise under pressure time and time again. There's no "opinion" about that.

I don't need to show where Bledsoe has shown it, I've clearly shown that McNabb hasn't.

 

[Q_the_man]

Career Averages

McNabb:
58.4%
6.60 ypa
2.03 TD per INT
84.1 rating

Bledsoe:
57.3% completion rate
6.64 ypa
1.23 TD per INT
77.3 rating


If McNabb is 8 years of crap, what is Bledsoe? A lifetime of crap?

Hell, if I'm correct most QBs in the league are about those averages u posted

When u post stats u post stats that u want..

Now throw in Yards,TDs, and other catagories, not just the ones that are close but the meaningful stats to..

 

[dallasfaniac]

I'm picking Bledsoe only because McNabb is showing a propensity for injury. Look at the last 5 years. The Statue that is Bledsoe has started each and every game other than the season he had a blood vessel burst in his lung two games into the season. McNabb on the other hand missed 6 games in 2002, 1 game in 2004 and 7 games last year. Because of his mobility, he is putting his body at risk in awkward positions. He's quickly becoming the next McNair. The best QB on his team, but the one holding the clipboard on Sundays.

The thing is, once he loses his ability to scramble because his knees hurt too much, I don't think he could just sit back there like Bledsoe and take the hit trying to get the ball to his receiver.

I just don't think McNabb is going to see the success he has seen in the past. IMO, he's going to get beat down more and start to show that he is more athlete than QB.

I like McNabb and all, but I just prefer my QBs to stay in the pocket and throw the ball, not wait 2 seconds and look for a hole.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

But it's been clearly shown that McNabb is not a leader. When the goin' gets tough, McNabb chokes - time and time again.



Of course they do - he's the company man. But when teammates publicly rush to Owen's aid over McNabb's it shows what they think of him as their leader.

And he choked in every big game he was ever in. And he was the direct cause of their ultimate demise as well.



Only subjective to you. McNabb has clearly shown he doesn't have leadership ability or poise under pressure time and time again. There's no "opinion" about that.

I don't need to show where Bledsoe has shown it, I've clearly shown that McNabb hasn't.

Doesn't mean anything. If the only criteria for naming Bledsoe as superior is leadership, then he would have to demonstrate that superiority clearly. Even then, I don't think it's enough but that's another arguement. What has Bledsoe done to be considered better in this regard?

Interesting that you would call McNabb out as "Company Man". Perhaps he is but I've just spent weeks watching a guy like Ellis be crucified on this board because he is not being a "Company Man". Interesting that when it's our team, none conformity is none acceptible but for other teams, it's considered a weakness. It is disapointing to see that we too are capable of being complete Hommers, just as we accuse ES of being on occasion.

The facts are that they never would have been there if not for McNabb. He may not have won the big game but how does this make him less then Bledsoe at this point? Your point is irrelivant.

Again, you skirt the real question. I never said that Bledsoe was this exceptional leader. I said that Bledsoe has not proven to be any better leader then McNappie, at this point. If he has, demonstrate it. Otherwise, please cease this line or reasoning that has little reason associated.

Your last statement speaks for itself. I don't really even feel the need to comment on it other then to say that if you can't support your position, lets just stop trying to prove it as factual.

 

[dargonking999]

Good one.

do we need to posts Qc's stats, i think that was a lifetime of crap, at least Bledsoe won a playoff game

 

[wileedog]

Interesting that you would call McNabb out as "Company Man". Perhaps he is but I've just spent weeks watching a guy like Ellis be crucified on this board because he is not being a "Company Man". Interesting that when it's our team, none conformity is none acceptible but for other teams, it's considered a weakness. It is disapointing to see that we too are capable of being complete Hommers, just as we accuse ES of being on occasion.

Poor comparison. Ellis is actually the team's Union Rep, meaning its his job to help protect the players from being abused by the management.

McNabb is alledgedly pro-management to the point where he will take sides with them over players. Not the same thing at all.

Which guy is more likely to fill a 'leadership' role on the team with the players?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Poor comparison. Ellis is actually the team's Union Rep, meaning its his job to help protect the players from being abused by the management.

McNabb is alledgedly pro-management to the point where he will take sides with them over players. Not the same thing at all.

Which guy is more likely to fill a 'leadership' role on the team with the players?

Lets stay on point here. The issue is not who is more of a team leader. That is clear, to me. That's Ellis. However, the fact remains that Ellis is being slamed time and again because he will not tow the party line. Yet, McNabb is being downgraded because he is.

Lont story short, there is no credible evidence to support the fact that Bledsoe is more of a leader or whatever. Certainly, nothing to prove that he is the better QB based on this, somewhat, questionsable point.

 

[Stash]

Doesn't mean anything. If the only criteria for naming Bledsoe as superior is leadership, then he would have to demonstrate that superiority clearly. Even then, I don't think it's enough but that's another arguement. What has Bledsoe done to be considered better in this regard?

Maybe not to you since you choose to see what you want to over what actually happens. If nothing else, Bledsoe has shown that he's not McNabb. Bledsoe won two AFC Championship Games, McNabb won 1 and choked away 3 others - that's fact.

And again, there are plenty of clear criticisms of McNabb's leadership ability, specifically withing the past year when it was tested.

Need a specific example? How about when Keyshawn challenged Drew on the sidelines? Did Drew pull a Donovan and tuck tail and run? Hardly. He stood up for himself like a man, unlike what McNabb has shown.

Interesting that you would call McNabb out as "Company Man". Perhaps he is but I've just spent weeks watching a guy like Ellis be crucified on this board because he is not being a "Company Man". Interesting that when it's our team, none conformity is none acceptible but for other teams, it's considered a weakness. It is disapointing to see that we too are capable of being complete Hommers, just as we accuse ES of being on occasion.

Apples and oranges. There's no correlation between the two. The point with McNabb is about trust. His teammates see that he can't be trusted when it comes to the front office. He's the one guy on the team who's been "taken care of" financially and that's bought his blind loyalty.

The facts are that they never would have been there if not for McNabb. He may not have won the big game but how does this make him less then Bledsoe at this point? Your point is irrelivant.

Their defense and a lousy NFC is what got them there. McNabb and the Eagles never beat a good team during their entire "glorious" 4 year run. And it's not that he simply "didn't win" the big game. He was a direct contributor to their losing the big game.

Again, you skirt the real question. I never said that Bledsoe was this exceptional leader. I said that Bledsoe has not proven to be any better leader then McNappie, at this point. If he has, demonstrate it. Otherwise, please cease this line or reasoning that has little reason associated.

Your last statement speaks for itself. I don't really even feel the need to comment on it other then to say that if you can't support your position, lets just stop trying to prove it as factual.

And I've given you a specific situation where one guy stood up for himself where one didn't. Leaders fight their own fight and lead by example, not because "the team says they're the leader".

Bledsoe may not have shown to be a "great" leader, but McNabb has endlessly shown to be a "lousy" one.

 

[JackMagist]

Well, when you use a comparison between someone who is considered one of the best at his position vs someone who is just starter material; of course, its easy to be objective.

So who are you saying is what here? Is it McNabb or Bledsoe who is one of the best at his position?

My opinion is that with McNabb folding totally in the Superbowl I do not want him as my QB. If you can't keep it together for THAT game you might as well hang it up. Plus he doesn't even have enough respect from his team to hold them together against a cancerous troublemaker in their locker room. I see Bledsoe as a much better leader and a better QB in general w/ the usual caveat of having to protect him for him to be effective.

 

[wileedog]

Lets stay on point here. The issue is not who is more of a team leader. That is clear, to me. That's Ellis. However, the fact remains that Ellis is being slamed time and again because he will not tow the party line. Yet, McNabb is being downgraded because he is.

It is on point. No is asking or expecting Ellis to be a "Manager's Rep" in the clubhouse. They are asking him to shut up and play football as best he can for the contract he signed.

McNabb's crime on the other hand is alienating the very players who he is supposed to be "leading"

Apples and oranges.

Lont story short, there is no credible evidence to support the fact that Bledsoe is more of a leader or whatever. Certainly, nothing to prove that he is the better QB based on this, somewhat, questionsable point.

Well, we have anectodal evidence.

TO starts yelling at McNabb on the sideline. McNabb says nothing, tries to walk away from the verbal abuse, and then tries to use the media to get TO to stop.

Keyshawn starts yelling at Bledsoe on the sidelines. Bledsoe gets right back in face. Words are exchanged, the matter is settled, and before the game has ended the whole issue is pretty much over except for the media trying to pump it into something it wasn't.

If I were an Eagle player I would have a hard time looking up to a QB who can't even stand up to his wide recievers face to face.

Maybe we don't have solid evidence that Bledsoe is a great leader, but we certainly don't have a ton of evidence like this and 4 choked big games to say that he isn't.

I agree its speculative and probably not a sole reason to take Bledsoe over McNabb, but to be honest talent aside I really wouldn't want McNabb QBing this team. I just don't like him or how he appraches things.

If I really had this choice I would take McNabb and trade him for draft picks.

 

[Stash]

It is on point. No is asking or expecting Ellis to be a "Manager's Rep" in the clubhouse. They are asking him to shut up and play football as best he can for the contract he signed.

McNabb's crime on the other hand is alienating the very players who he is supposed to be "leading"

Apples and oranges.



Well, we have anectodal evidence.

TO starts yelling at McNabb on the sideline. McNabb says nothing, tries to walk away from the verbal abuse, and then tries to use the media to get TO to stop.

Keyshawn starts yelling at Bledsoe on the sidelines. Bledsoe gets right back in face. Words are exchanged, the matter is settled, and before the game has ended the whole issue is pretty much over except for the media trying to pump it into something it wasn't.

If I were an Eagle player I would have a hard time looking up to a QB who can't even stand up to his wide recievers face to face.

Maybe we don't have solid evidence that Bledsoe is a great leader, but we certainly don't have a ton of evidence like this and 4 choked big games to say that he isn't.

Exactly my point!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Maybe not to you since you choose to see what you want to over what actually happens. If nothing else, Bledsoe has shown that he's not McNabb. Bledsoe won two AFC Championship Games, McNabb won 1 and choked away 3 others - that's fact.

And again, there are plenty of clear criticisms of McNabb's leadership ability, specifically withing the past year when it was tested.

Need a specific example? How about when Keyshawn challenged Drew on the sidelines? Did Drew pull a Donovan and tuck tail and run? Hardly. He stood up for himself like a man, unlike what McNabb has shown.



Apples and oranges. There's no correlation between the two. The point with McNabb is about trust. His teammates see that he can't be trusted when it comes to the front office. He's the one guy on the team who's been "taken care of" financially and that's bought his blind loyalty.




Their defense and a lousy NFC is what got them there. McNabb and the Eagles never beat a good team during their entire "glorious" 4 year run. And it's not that he simply "didn't win" the big game. He was a direct contributor to their losing the big game.



And I've given you a specific situation where one guy stood up for himself where one didn't. Leaders fight their own fight and lead by example, not because "the team says they're the leader".

Bledsoe may not have shown to be a "great" leader, but McNabb has endlessly shown to be a "lousy" one.

So much BS. All of these response do not give what is asked for. Prove how Bledsoe is this great leader. Show how this supposed leadership has made him a better QB then McNappie.

I am not interested in arguing over irrelivant points. If there is nothing concrete you can offer, then this is a waste of time. Simple as that.

 

[Stash]

So much BS. All of these response do not give what is asked for. Prove how Bledsoe is this great leader. Show how this supposed leadership has made him a better QB then McNappie.

I am not interested in arguing over irrelivant points. If there is nothing concrete you can offer, then this is a waste of time. Simple as that.

Then run off like the scalded dog you're showing to be.

We've both shown clear examples of McNabb's lack of leadership both on and off the field.

You can put the blinders on in you want.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It is on point. No is asking or expecting Ellis to be a "Manager's Rep" in the clubhouse. They are asking him to shut up and play football as best he can for the contract he signed.

McNabb's crime on the other hand is alienating the very players who he is supposed to be "leading"

Apples and oranges.



Well, we have anectodal evidence.

TO starts yelling at McNabb on the sideline. McNabb says nothing, tries to walk away from the verbal abuse, and then tries to use the media to get TO to stop.

Keyshawn starts yelling at Bledsoe on the sidelines. Bledsoe gets right back in face. Words are exchanged, the matter is settled, and before the game has ended the whole issue is pretty much over except for the media trying to pump it into something it wasn't.

If I were an Eagle player I would have a hard time looking up to a QB who can't even stand up to his wide recievers face to face.

Maybe we don't have solid evidence that Bledsoe is a great leader, but we certainly don't have a ton of evidence like this and 4 choked big games to say that he isn't.

I agree its speculative and probably not a sole reason to take Bledsoe over McNabb, but to be honest talent aside I really wouldn't want McNabb QBing this team. I just don't like him or how he appraches things.

If I really had this choice I would take McNabb and trade him for draft picks.

How did either one of these incidents help us get to the playoffs?

Lets stop dealing in abstracts here. None of the above is anything more then abstract. Conclusive evidence if you will. McNappie has taken his team to the playoffs, the NFC championship 4 years straight with one superbowl appearance.

Discussion should really start and end right here.

 

[dargonking999]

Then run off like the scalded dog you're showing to be.

We've both shown clear examples of McNabb's lack of leadership both on and off the field.

You can put the blinders on in you want.

cant we all just get along

 

[wileedog]

So much BS. All of these response do not give what is asked for. Prove how Bledsoe is this great leader. Show how this supposed leadership has made him a better QB then McNappie.

Actually what you are being shown is that McNabb is a worse QB than his talent level should allow him to be.

There is no question that he is the better overall athlete by far.

But the mental game and the team leadership is an imprortant part of being a QB, and while Bledsoe may not be John Elway, McNabb is no Bledsoe.

I think its impossible to argue the point that someone made that 32 out of 32 GMs would take McNabb over Bledsoe, if only to avoid the lynching they would get from their fans.

But if on the other hand you told those 32 GMs you had to invest $100M in him, eat up a bunch of your cap space, and have him be the 'leadership' on your team, a *LOT* less then 32 would take you up on that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Then run off like the scalded dog you're showing to be.

We've both shown clear examples of McNabb's lack of leadership both on and off the field.

You can put the blinders on in you want.

Your amusing.

 

[dargonking999]

How did either one of these incidents help us get to the playoffs?

Lets stop dealing in abstracts here. None of the above is anything more then abstract. Conclusive evidence if you will. McNappie has taken his team to the playoffs, the NFC championship 4 years straight with one superbowl appearance.

Discussion should really start and end right here.

Mcnabb did nothing, he was helped by a great system, and a stellar Def, his effectivness was cleary shown in the playoffs, when even at home he refused to win a game, untill he finally picked up TO, and played ATL(a dome team) at home. U

sing the the words Mcnabb and lead in the same sentecn does not work unless doesnt or cant is in between. Discusion ends right there

 

[dargonking999]

Your amusing.

So are you