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Bob Sturm Has Been Great To Listen To About McCarthy

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Blackspider214, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. jazzcat22

    jazzcat22 Well-Known Member

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    Why?
    McCarthy is smart enough to know what he has and will utilize him.
     
  2. Plankton

    Plankton Well-Known Member

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    Not that I'm defending McCarthy's last two seasons in Green Bay to an overly ridiculous extent, but you do realize that the Packers completely remade their defense this offseason by signing Za"Darius Smith and Preston Smith as OLBs, Adrian Amos as a SS and drafted Darnell Savage as a FS in the first round this year? They also had guys like Zaire Alexander make significant strides in his second year, and added two new OGs in Elgton Jenkins and Billy Turner (as a FA). They additionally had Aaron Rodgers healthy for the whole season.

    But, yes, it was the same team as the previous season.
     
  3. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    The WCO in general relies more on backs in the passing game, multiple TEs in the passing game, less on running the ball in a traditional balanced ball control Offense. What it does is it allows you to use the pass in place of the run game but what it doesn't do it wear down the opposing Offense with a physical style in the run game.

    It may or may not be a good thing, that remains to be seen but the post is about the contract. I've said this a few times already. This is not about if we get production out of the run game or not. It's about how much we paid Zeke and IMO, the Zeke deal is looking worse running McCarthy's Offense. We are paying Zeke to lead the league in rushing year in year out, or at least be in the top two or three in the league. The reason, we were told, for paying him was the shortened career because of the physical style of play and the beating he would take. Now, if we are no longer running that style of Offense, if Zeke is not in contention for the rushing title year in, year out, then the contract is not worth the money we paid because we can hire backs who fit McCarthy's offense much cheaper. We have one on the team right now in Tony Pollard. He, to me, might be a better fit for McCarthy's Offense and he is much cheaper.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  4. ColoCowboy

    ColoCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Not to beat a dead-horse, but... I don't think the issue is getting the real "Zeke" back. It is more an issue of his contract. Regardless what Zeke brings, it is still hard to rationalize that size of a contract for what amounts to a completely fungible asset... RB.

    Sorry, didn't mean to de-rail the thread by resurrecting the whole Zeke contract debate
     
  5. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    Based on what? McCarthy has never ever run an Offense that relied on the running game to control the Offense. He's never run a balanced Offense. He's used it in certain situations but not as the staple of the Offense. The passing game has always been featured, rather then the run game so what proof is there that he will do as you suggest and "utiltize him" in a way that justifies the actual contract costs?
     
  6. jazzcat22

    jazzcat22 Well-Known Member

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    Because he never had a RB like Zeke before.
     
  7. sean10mm

    sean10mm Well-Known Member

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    McCarthy's run usage was almost entirely a function of running back quality. He never had better than league average backs, and when those guys were in their relative prime he ran a league average amount. He never had an elite back in their prime so we don't have a precedent for what he would do with them.

    Also he had peak Aaron Rodgers. Of course he had him throw.

    Holmgren was a WCO guy through and through, and in Seattle he ran Shaun Alexander a zillion times. Shanahan ran the ball a ton with the WCO too, especially when he had Terrell Davis.

    Nothing about the WCO says you can't run.
     
    dreghorn2 likes this.
  8. MikeB80

    MikeB80 Well-Known Member

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    The 2009 Packers ran the ball well. They actually ended up with 4000 yards passing, grant ran for 1200 yards and 11 td's and had two 1000 yd wr. I think he will run the ball just fine.
     
    WillieBeamen likes this.
  9. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    So that automatically means that he will go away from what he's always done and always been as an Offense Coach? I mean, it's possible but I see no proof of this. It could happen I suppose but I don't believe that's what we will see out of a McCarty Offense.

    We will see....
     
  10. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    I agree, but look at it on it's face. This doesn't suggest that McCarty is going to run a balanced Offense. It suggests that he will pass the ball much more.

    I mean, I feel like you guys aren't listening. What is the original statement I made, say? The Contract for Zeke is looking worse and worse. He is being paid to lead the league in rushing year in, year out. That's not what I see out of a McCarthy Offense. None of what just posted speaks to what I originally said. You are talking about the Offensive production. I am talking about the contract. Two different things. You disagree with that?
     
  11. MikeB80

    MikeB80 Well-Known Member

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    His contract is fine with me, he is the most important piece of this offense currently. He along with the line and hopefully an improved group at tight end should lead this offense going forward. McCarthy being from the WCO gives me no worries that he cant be. Mike Holmgren had no problem giving the ball to his rb's a million times and I think McCarthy will do the same.

    I think anyone who has a problem with zeke's contract probably doesn't like zeke or falsely believes any rb can produce.

    Zeke is the bell cow and the catalyst. I am good with him being paid and now more than ever I believe cooper should not be.
     
  12. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    It's not with me. It's looking worse and worse. We can, and probably will, pay a guy much less to carry half the load. Contract is not looking good to me but hey, if you are OK with over paying, that's your business.

    The BS your throwing up with the whole "anybody who has a problem with the contract" is a dodge. Anybody with any amount of grey matter should be concerned with cap and contracts. If you can't see this, then you got no business calling out anybody about anything. That's a bunch of crap.
     
  13. MikeB80

    MikeB80 Well-Known Member

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    yep. next year when zeke is a 2000 yd from scrimmage player remember you didn't want him here. He is going to flourish in a new setup. His physical play is the backbone of what they will do.
     
  14. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    Yeah, come tell me all about it, when and if it happens.
     
  15. Keithfansince5

    Keithfansince5 Well-Known Member

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    Personally I am not loving a pass happy philosophy. I truly hope McCarthy is reigned in and runs more than passes. The top 4 passing teams all MISSED THE PLAYOFFS (Including Dallas). Meanwhile the top 4 rushing teams all made the playoffs. I would like to see 55% run and 45% passing.
     
  16. CouchCoach

    CouchCoach Well-Known Member

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    It is unknown how Big Mike will run his offense because this offense is not QB centric. He is not in the rebuilding stage with the offense, this is it and he has to work with it.

    He has never coached a team with the cap distribution like this one and the potential with re-signing the QB and WR is even greater. He has to adapt. He never had 4 OL in the top 6 paid at their position or the highest paid RB in NFL history. There are certain expectations from the owner in the deployment of these expensive weapons.

    Do you think he came to Dallas and spent 12 hours trying to convince the Joneses to blow it up and go WCO or do you think he came with a plan of how to better deploy those expensive weapons? He came with a plan, a plan that caused them to call off the coaching search and grab this one before someone else did.

    We really don't know how he's going to adapt his offense to this group of players but if you look at the history of these WCO guys, they all adapt and differ in their approach. Since the creation of the WCO, the NFL has changed and every team runs pieces of it.

    The first question he has to ask himself is which parts of the WCO does this QB fit and struggle with and the first one will be those slants and crossers with the speed guys. I think that's why he's interested in Moore, Prescott responded to him and Kitna and he will need more teaching.

    I think the mistake some make are thinking that was all he knew to do in GB, put it on Rodgers. Rodgers is the most accurate passer I have ever seen, any coach would be foolish not to rely on that but he must consider the difference between Prescott and Rodgers. He could rely on Rodgers to take over a game a lot easier.
     
  17. MikeB80

    MikeB80 Well-Known Member

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    will do.

    2003 Deuce McCallister

    rushed for 1641 yds and 8 Td's & 516 receiving yards.

    in all three of McCarthy's seasons as OC in NO McCallister rushed for over 1000 yds. Topping 1200 twice.

    He has a great player in Zeke and I can't imagine he doesn't know exactly how to use him just like he did with Ricky Williams and Deuce McCallister
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
    WillieBeamen likes this.
  18. CouchCoach

    CouchCoach Well-Known Member

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    You won't see that, the only teams that do that count on the QB to contribute to that like Jackson leading his team in rushing.

    The Cowboys hit that 55% level with Emmitt and Dorsett, Landry hit 60% a few times but times were different. I will be happy with 45% run because too often the DC's are focusing on shutting the run down.

    The major difference I will be looking for with Big Mike is gameday tactics. I don't think there was anything wrong with Garrett/Moore's strategy, it was the lack of adjustment and tactics and I am looking forward to see how that changes. That's the difference a tactician can make. I always wondered about how the players felt when they knew they were heading into a second half chess game.
     
  19. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Regular Joe....

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    This is true. I have been saying for several years now that I felt as if the pendulum was swinging back in the NFL. I mean, the passing game is here to stay so it's never going to be like it was but, the run game is coming back and balance is really the key IMO. I'm not a believer in Dak's abilities to win games in a pass heavy Offense. We have consistently shown that the formula for us to win is in the area of 25 to 30 carries for 125 to 200 yards rushing and 20 to 25 passes for 220 to 250 yards and no TOs. That formula is highly successful for this team. 15 carries for 80 to 100 yards and 30 passes for 300 is not. We are built to wear down opposing Defenses and basically get up on them and take out all the air in the room. Now, if you want to say that we are going to a high octane Offense that throws 35 to 50 times a game, OK, but that means seriously retooling our personnel. It means that you need to rethink the OL, you probably need to go to a two back system, you need to go out and find two significantly better TEs and you need to have a QB who can be a much better passer. Defensively, you need to go to a Defense that can really rush the passer and you need to have DBs who can cover because if you implement a high octane Offense, that means you are going to face teams trying to throw the ball a lot. It means you have to be able to rush the passer and stop completions all over the field. Now, the Defense probably needs to be reworked anyway but we are currently not the team who can bring the heat. That's not how we were built and our current personnel does not fit that style of attacking defense. What it really means is that you now are looking at a lot of changes on both sides of the ball. That's going to cost money, resources and time. We are trying to win now, according to everything we hear so I'm not sure how this really fits.

    I think it's a mistake to do this but hey, nobody pays me to think football so...........
     
    Keithfansince5 likes this.
  20. Keithfansince5

    Keithfansince5 Well-Known Member

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    "too often the DC's are focusing on shutting the run down."

    The reason is because if you do, you win more often than not. Number 1 priority is always shut down the running game because if you don't you are screwed.

    If Dallas continues down a pass happy pattern, they will not make the playoffs. They better run the ball and do it with better scheme (to your point about game day tactics). Football will never be better with too much passing. Balance is key, always has been, always will be. So 50% and 50% is ideal but I actually prefer slightly more runs than passes. I hope Dallas never turns into the Falcons, or Dolphins or Oiler's of yesteryear when they were lining up 5 wide and just passing all the time. That style doesn't fair that well in the playoffs if they even get to them.
     

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