Broaddus on Arkin

[burmafrd]

Would like someone to find a OL that was inactive for reasons besides injury for his first two years that ever made it to be a decent starter.

 

[cowboysooner]

I don't think anyone said Pro Bowler.

In this case, I would gladly settle for contributor.

From that round there is the one pro bowler Sherman, Denarius Moore who is a starter for the Raiders but probably would not start for most teams, a third down running back, and a backup quarterback, a rotational defensive end and a backup O tackle.

That is about 6 useful players (players that do more than take up roster space) out of more than 32 picks.

By starting 12 games, Josh Thomas is one of the better players in the round.

 

[Stash]

From that round there is the one pro bowler Sherman, Denarius Moore who is a starter for the Raiders but probably would not start for most teams, a third down running back, and a backup quarterback, a rotational defensive end and a backup O tackle.

That is about 6 useful players (players that do more than take up roster space) out of more than 32 picks.

By starting 12 games, Josh Thomas is one of the better players in the round.

Where did you ever see 12 starts?

 

[cowboysooner]

Where did you ever see 12 starts?

I didn't.

Jterrell did.

The point is that you have about a 25% chance of getting a useful piece with that pick. To gripe about not getting a good player with a particular late round pick is a tragically bad gripe, but carry on if it suits you.

 

[Stash]

I didn't.

Jterrell did.

The point is that you have about a 25% chance of getting a useful piece with that pick. To gripe about not getting a good player with a particular late round pick is a tragically bad gripe, but carry on if it suits you.

So then one error is taken as fact resulting in yet another?

 

[cowboysooner]

So then one error is taken as fact resulting in yet another?

Count him as a non-contributor like 75% of the rest of the round or any 5th or 6th round. The point is that you should not take a discrete pick in one late round and criticize an organization or GM for it.

If you want to make an informed point you might look at how the Cowboys compared to the rest of the league over some period of time, but even that is likely statistical noise- or better termed as luck good or bad.

 

[burmafrd]

Count him as a non-contributor like 75% of the rest of the round or any 5th or 6th round. The point is that you should not take a discrete pick in one late round and criticize an organization or GM for it.

If you want to make an informed point you might look at how the Cowboys compared to the rest of the league over some period of time, but even that is likely statistical noise- or better termed as luck good or bad.

PROBLEM is that this was a pick on the O line where we are near legendary status for our inability to draft good O line players. So its magnified

 

[Stash]

Count him as a non-contributor like 75% of the rest of the round or any 5th or 6th round. The point is that you should not take a discrete pick in one late round and criticize an organization or GM for it.

If you want to make an informed point you might look at how the Cowboys compared to the rest of the league over some period of time, but even that is likely statistical noise- or better termed as luck good or bad.

I don't think that you should us the term 'informed point' when you're calling Thomas a 12-game starter, do you?

So, by your logic the draft is simply a crap shoot and we should be thrilled when we're 'lucky enough' to get someone who can play?

Not very comforting.

I know that there were better options available there that the Cowboys failed to draft, opting instead for two guys who have never played a snap for them.

 

[Stash]

PROBLEM is that this was a pick on the O line where we are near legendary status for our inability to draft good O line players. So its magnified

Yeah.

I was also going to mention that.

Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[cowboysooner]

I don't think that you should us the term 'informed point' when you're calling Thomas a 12-game starter, do you?

So, by your logic the draft is simply a crap shoot and we should be thrilled when we're 'lucky enough' to get someone who can play?

Not very comforting.

I know that there were better options available there that the Cowboys failed to draft, opting instead for two guys who have never played a snap for them.

The draft is an informed crap shoot especially in the later rounds.

The scouting is usually very good in the first and second rounds. It does not mean that scouts/GM's don't miss but they are pretty good and the picks provide a pretty good success.

 

[Stash]

The draft is an informed crap shoot especially in the later rounds.

The scouting is usually very good in the first and second rounds. It does not mean that scouts/GM's don't miss but they are pretty good and the picks provide a pretty good success.

Whose scouting are you referring to?

 

[cowboysooner]

Whose scouting are you referring to?

The whole of the NFL.

About 80% of the first round ends up as good players and about 65% of the second round. It varies some from year to year and there is more failure when there is alot of coaching and scheme changes.

 

[Stash]

The whole of the NFL.

About 80% of the first round ends up as good players and about 65% of the second round. It varies some from year to year and there is more failure when there is alot of coaching and scheme changes.

And isn't 'the whole of the NFL' a combined 8-8 at the end of each season?

Some teams do better, some teams worse. That's why some are successful and some aren't.

Any other minutiae aside, this team has done a poor job of drafting offensive linemen for quite some time.

And Arkin looks to be yet another miss.

 

[jterrell]

I didn't.

Jterrell did.

The point is that you have about a 25% chance of getting a useful piece with that pick. To gripe about not getting a good player with a particular late round pick is a tragically bad gripe, but carry on if it suits you.

never said he started 12 games that i can find. said he started 5.

changes zero about how silly it is to write him off as bad pick given all the data presented however. he has produced more than 75% of the guys in that actual round.

good job by him of trying to cloud the issue.

 

[Stash]

never said he started 12 games that i can find. said he started 5.

changes zero about how silly it is to write him off as bad pick given all the data presented however. he has produced more than 75% of the guys in that actual round.

good job by him of trying to cloud the issue.

Whose 'clouding' anything?

If you think a 5th round draft pick used on a guy who never plays a snap for you is a good thing, yours is the judgement that's 'cloudy'.

Tell us more about how Arkin=Aaron Rodgers?

 

[jterrell]

I don't think that you should us the term 'informed point' when you're calling Thomas a 12-game starter, do you?

So, by your logic the draft is simply a crap shoot and we should be thrilled when we're 'lucky enough' to get someone who can play?

Not very comforting.

I know that there were better options available there that the Cowboys failed to draft, opting instead for two guys who have never played a snap for them.

ahh so i get it. unless we pick the very best player with every pick we make the draft sucks.

good job, good effort, please post more.

 

[Stash]

ahh so i get it. unless we pick the very best player with every pick we make the draft sucks.

good job, good effort, please post more.

Sure seems like you don't.

Unlike the ostriches who would rather stick their head in the sand, when the Cowboys make a mistake, I'll say they made a mistake.

They did very well in that draft overall, but missed out on doing even better.

See?

Both praise and lament.

You can do both.

Unfortunately, Arkin was another miss in an area where they have repeatedly struggled, making that miss more significant.

 

[jterrell]

Sure seems like you don't.

Unlike the ostriches who would rather stick their head in the sand, when the Cowboys make a mistake, I'll say they made a mistake.

They did very well in that draft overall, but missed out on doing even better.

See?

Both praise and lament.

You can do both.

Unfortunately, Arkin was another miss in an area where they have repeatedly struggled, making that miss more significant.

You have no idea if Arkin is a miss and thus far Josh Thomas hasn't been.
The fact they decided to release Thomas and gamble they could get by with him on the practice squad was a miss. Arkin contributing early was a miss if they ever had that intention.

You are hilariously and illogically knocking Thomas for his contribution to the team yet ignoring that Arkin can still contribute to the team. He's running with 1s right now. Maybe that's a last hurrah check or maybe he's going to win a job in the top 4 int OL spots. He's cheap enough.

The best you can do to answer real data about how others drafted that late and in that specific draft have done is say "you know there were better players". That's simply terrible logic.

Lament: We were morons to hire Lacewell as Personnel guru and then keep him until BP arrived. Hiring Campo was terrible. Hiring Garrett as OC before hiring Wade was terrible. Drafting players who can't actually make an NFL roster for anyone... terrible. Failing to hold on to legit NFL talents like Amendola and Thomas at least bad and may be terrible. Trading for WRs at the cost of high draft picks only to pay those guys mega-contracts: Terrible.
Terence Newman's play his final season with us, terrible. QCar's drug addiction: Terrible. Hutch and Henson's overall QB ability: Terrible. Not being smart enough to bottom out and start over but instead limp along with 5 wins for 3 straight seasons: Terrible.

 

[cowboysooner]

never said he started 12 games that i can find. said he started 5.

changes zero about how silly it is to write him off as bad pick given all the data presented however. he has produced more than 75% of the guys in that actual round.

good job by him of trying to cloud the issue.

Sorry. I misread.

A guy that starts 4 or 5 games and is in a nickle/dime package, has 35 tackles and 7 passes defended is not an awful identification of talent in the 5th round. The Cowboys deciding to keep only 3 corners was one of the strangest personnel moves I've seen in a while when 5 is the norm.

 

[Stash]

You have no idea if Arkin is a miss and thus far Josh Thomas hasn't been.

0 games played = miss. You can try to spin it any other way you want to help you feel better.

The fact they decided to release Thomas and gamble they could get by with him on the practice squad was a miss. Arkin contributing early was a miss if they ever had that intention.

That they released Thomas at all, whatever the intention, makes it a miss. Again, 0 games played = miss. Not that hard to understand.

You are hilariously and illogically knocking Thomas for his contribution to the team yet ignoring that Arkin can still contribute to the team. He's running with 1s right now. Maybe that's a last hurrah check or maybe he's going to win a job in the top 4 int OL spots. He's cheap enough.

Last I checked, they both played 0 games for the Cowboys, how hard is it for you to understand? And if you want to run out and get yourself a #62 jersey, feel free. But I would consider it an unwise investment...

The best you can do to answer real data about how others drafted that late and in that specific draft have done is say "you know there were better players". That's simply terrible logic.

Again, throw all the numbers and percentages together if you'd like, just don't forget to throw the wins and losses in there too, where the entire league as a whole finishes 8-8 every single year.

Lament: We were morons to hire Lacewell as Personnel guru and then keep him until BP arrived. Hiring Campo was terrible. Hiring Garrett as OC before hiring Wade was terrible. Drafting players who can't actually make an NFL roster for anyone... terrible. Failing to hold on to legit NFL talents like Amendola and Thomas at least bad and may be terrible. Trading for WRs at the cost of high draft picks only to pay those guys mega-contracts: Terrible.
Terence Newman's play his final season with us, terrible. QCar's drug addiction: Terrible. Hutch and Henson's overall QB ability: Terrible. Not being smart enough to bottom out and start over but instead limp along with 5 wins for 3 straight seasons: Terrible.

See? You can do it!