Broncos Fire Mike Shanahan

[Cochese]

Let Ginger go coach a bottom feeder, tell Wade to accept a demotion or GeeTeeEffO, and make this man our head coach.

 

[punchnjudy]

That's funny, because on the list of active head coaches (ranked by winning percentage) Wade is like 6th I believe, one spot behind Mike Shannahan. Proven winner?

edit: I can't find the list, but I know Wade is in the top 10

Great, now tell us where Switzer ranks.

Wade is what the rest of the league already knew him to be - a very good coordinator...and that's all.

When he's done here (probably after next year unless this latest firing excites Jerry), he will have no more head coaching offers. He will have many dc offers, because that's what he is.

Shanahan wouldn't be my first choice, but obviously he'd be an upgrade. Defense would be a concern, but I'd take that just to restore order on this team.

 

[RainMan]

Shanahan is a good example of why I think it's a poor decision to let the head coach also serve as a GM. A lot of really good coaches have gone south after earning GM roles. It's almost as if some of Shanahan's personnel decisions sabotaged his ability to do a better coaching job.

Clearly, he'd be an upgrade here. I don't know if Shanahan would be ideal -- old, hasn't had a lot of playoff success this decade, etc. But he'd be an absolute upgrade over the clown we have now, so I'd be on board tenfold.

 

[RainMan]

Great, now tell us where Switzer ranks.

Wade is what the rest of the league already knew him to be - a very good coordinator...and that's all.

When he's done here (probably after next year unless this latest firing excites Jerry), he will have no more head coaching offers. He will have many dc offers, because that's what he is.

Shanahan wouldn't be my first choice, but obviously he'd be an upgrade. Defense would be a concern, but I'd take that just to restore order on this team.

Yeah, I don't think we have to worry about Phillips being featured anytime soon in any books about the great field generals the NFL has had.

 

[Timbo2st]

I personally don't like the move at all. I can see the Broncos not contending for a couple years now.

They better load up on defense at the draft, because they need it.

 

[cowboyschmps3]

WHOA! he sure does know how to get a team running the ball. him paired with a good DC would be great for this team.

i agree

 

[masomenos]

seriously?! against the cowboys?! gimme a break! thats wade-ism right there.

cowboys had a bye week, cowboys were on home, giants had to go on road and beat a team that has beaten them twice in the regular season.

the odds were against them, not the cowboys. cowboys were the faves. thats why romo and co. had the time to go to cabo. eli and co. couldnt and didnt.

Actually, with such a limited sample (3 games), the Giant's were very likely to win at least one. It's the same effect that is seen in baseball, with the world series. A series is more likely to end with a one game split result than with a sweep.

Cowboys were the favorite based on the fact that people thought they had a better team. That's not how true odds should be determined though. There's a great book on probability called "The Drunkard's Walk" that has a chapter on this same thing.

 

[rcaldw]

That's funny, because on the list of active head coaches (ranked by winning percentage) Wade is like 6th I believe, one spot behind Mike Shannahan. Proven winner?

edit: I can't find the list, but I know Wade is in the top 10

Where does he rank in playoff winning pct?

 

[masomenos]

Great, now tell us where Switzer ranks.

Wade is what the rest of the league already knew him to be - a very good coordinator...and that's all.

When he's done here (probably after next year unless this latest firing excites Jerry), he will have no more head coaching offers. He will have many dc offers, because that's what he is.

Shanahan wouldn't be my first choice, but obviously he'd be an upgrade. Defense would be a concern, but I'd take that just to restore order on this team.

Switzer didn't coach long enough to qualify and he's not an active coach.

Why would Shanahan be an upgrade? What about his past 10 years in Denver inspires confidence?

 

[rcaldw]

Wade Phillips record: These are the places where he WASN'T an interim. Three patterns emerge. Diminishing returns. Unable to win in the playoffs. Apparently a short life span, since in his previous two spots 3 years was the tops.

DEN 1993 9 7 0 .562 3rd in AFC West 0 1 .000 Lost to Los Angeles Raiders in AFC Wild-Card Game.

DEN 1994 7 9 0 .437 4th in AFC West - - - -

BUF 1998 10 6 0 .625 3rd in AFC East 0 1 .000 Lost to Miami Dolphins in AFC Wild-Card Game.

BUF 1999 11 5 0 .687 2nd in AFC East 0 1 .000 Lost to Tennessee Titans in AFC Wild-Card Game.

BUF 2000 8 8 0 .500 4th in AFC East - - -

DAL 2007 13 3 0 .813 1st in NFC East 0 1 .000 Lost to New York Giants in NFC Divisional Game.

DAL 2008 9 7 0 .562 3rd in NFC East - - -

0-4, .000 winning pct as a playoff coach.

 

[masomenos]

Where does he rank in playoff winning pct?

Was George Allen a bad coach because he was 2-7 in the playoffs and never won a championship?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

masonmenos owns an entire thread

 

[rcaldw]

Was George Allen a bad coach because he was 2-7 in the playoffs and never won a championship?

Depends on what you want in a coach? He DID win a couple of playoff games. He DID get his team to the Super Bowl. But NO he WOULDN'T be my #1 candidate.

 

[rcaldw]

Was George Allen a bad coach because he was 2-7 in the playoffs and never won a championship?

I would also add this. I have said this to my kids when they are trying to explain away a poor performance in school with the performance of others.

If I'm looking for examples of people who finished poorly to prop up my performance we have a problem.

Why don't we find a coach who can compare favorably to coaches that won in the playoffs?

 

[rcaldw]

We did achieve something in the very first season, we won the division and took the eventual SB champs right to the brink. The odds were against us in the Giants playoff game and we lost. It sucked, but it was still a good season. Wade hasn't underachieved by a wide margin for two seasons, you can only make the case that he underachieved THIS season. And with that, I would say that injuries played a huge role.

You give Wade a 3rd year because, in his first two seasons, he won 22 games. That's just as many as Mike Tomlin. What did Tomlin's Steelers do in the playoffs last year? They got bounced in the first round. So, the difference between Tomlin and Wade, to this point, is 1 playoff appearance, that's it. That's not enough to justify firing the guy, especially with what our team faced.

Cut all the prima donna players? News flash, the NFL is filled with elite athletes who are generally in their 20's and early 30's, who are showered with millions of dollars and who captivate tens of millions of people. Do you think that may make a lot of players pretty vain and feel entitled? Talent is vain, that's true in almost ANY field.

This is an interesting take in the midst of your post. Didn't we win the division that the eventual SB champs are in? Didn't we have home field advantage and the eventual SB champs had to come to our place? Push them to the brink????????? Weren't we FAVORED in that game?

You talk about revisionist history. Its called a CHOKE job my friend. You go 13-3, win the division, have home field throughout and spit the bit right out of the gate.

 

[masomenos]

I would also add this. I have said this to my kids when they are trying to explain away a poor performance in school with the performance of others.

If I'm looking for examples of people who finished poorly to prop up my performance we have a problem.

Why don't we find a coach who can compare favorably to coaches that won in the playoffs?

Sometimes it is a valid explanation and it's why some profs. grade on a curve.

Winning in the playoffs isn't exactly a cake walk. Was the Bills teams that lost to the Titan's poorly prepared even though they only lost because of one of the more memorable plays in NFL history? Was the Cowboys team last year poorly prepared when it lost by 4 to the eventual Super Bowl champion Giants last year?

Put simply, no.

Wade is a good coach who has proved he can win against good teams in the NFL. Just because those results haven't translated to the playoffs doesn't mean that they never will.

 

[saphire1]

This is an interesting take in the midst of your post. Didn't we win the division that the eventual SB champs are in? Didn't we have home field advantage and the eventual SB champs had to come to our place? Push them to the brink????????? Weren't we FAVORED in that game?

You talk about revisionist history. Its called a CHOKE job my friend. You go 13-3, win the division, have home field throughout and spit the bit right out of the gate.

thank you! i dunno why all of a sudden, a game that the cowboys lost, when they were heavily favored, and even the team knew that, was suddenly the underdog in that game just bec the winner of that game eventually became the SB champs.

hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[masomenos]

This is an interesting take in the midst of your post. Didn't we win the division that the eventual SB champs are in? Didn't we have home field advantage and the eventual SB champs had to come to our place? Push them to the brink????????? Weren't we FAVORED in that game?

You talk about revisionist history. Its called a CHOKE job my friend. You go 13-3, win the division, have home field throughout and spit the bit right out of the gate.

We were favored, but only because we were considered the better team.

How much "better" of a team were we than the Giants? If we played them 10 times, how many games would we have won? Maybe 6? That means the Giants would have won 40% of the time. We didn't play them 10 times, we played them 3. What is 40% of 3? The odds of that Giants team beating us in one of those three games was incredibly good, it just came at the wrong time for us.

It's not "revisionist" it's the overlooked truth.

 

[rcaldw]

Sometimes it is a valid explanation and it's why some profs. grade on a curve.

Winning in the playoffs isn't exactly a cake walk. Was the Bills teams that lost to the Titan's poorly prepared even though they only lost because of one of the more memorable plays in NFL history? Was the Cowboys team last year poorly prepared when it lost by 4 to the eventual Super Bowl champion Giants last year?

Put simply, no.

Wade is a good coach who has proved he can win against good teams in the NFL. Just because those results haven't translated to the playoffs doesn't mean that they never will.

Sometimes, you are right, it could be a valid explanation, but your child should still score, relative to the rest of the class, according to his or her abilities. If they are underachieving, they are underachieving, whether you grade on the curve or not. Wade has taken 4 tests and failed all 4.

The answer to your second question is that the Cowboys WERE poorly prepared last year against the Giants. You can put simply no all you want and reflect on the fact that the Giants went on to win the Super Bowl, but I ask you again, WHO WAS FAVORED IN THAT GAME?

Wade is a good coordinator, not a good head coach. Wade was evaluated by the Broncos, that team that you used as an example of patience with Shannahan, (10 years), and released after year 2. Wade was evaluated by Buffalo and released after year 3.

 

[rcaldw]

thank you! i dunno why all of a sudden, a game that the cowboys lost, when they were heavily favored, and even the team knew that, was suddenly the underdog in that game just bec the winner of that game eventually became the SB champs.

hindsight is always 20/20.

You got it friend. It is called trying to prop up a weak argument for a weak head coach.