BTB: Stephen Jones: Kellen Moore as QBs coach is nearly a done deal for the Cowboys

[Clove]

I think Moore could become one of better offensive mind in few years. Romo used to speak high of his knowledge.

Maybe in 5 years, no threat to Garrett of course.

 

[OmerV]

They are all dumb because Jerry Jones is not a GM and 22 years proves it.

By this logic hiring Jimmy Johnson was dumb, and even outside Jimmy's time, drafting Larry Allen, Jason Witten, DeMarcus Ware, Sean Lee, Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick, Zack Martin were dumb, as was signing Deion Sanders.

I think this may illustrate the difficulty with your thinking - your belief seems to be if the overall track record isn't good that means every single move was bad, and that's not logical. It's not all or nothing. There were good things Jerry did, and things that were reasonable choices that didn't work out, and then there were a lot of bad choices. The overall track record shows that he has been a bad GM, no question about that, but that doesn't somehow make mean there was never a good move or reasonable choice. That's like saying if a player had an overall bad career it somehow means a touchdown he scored was a bad play.

 

[Clove]

By this logic hiring Jimmy Johnson was dumb, and even outside Jimmy's time, drafting Larry Allen, Jason Witten, DeMarcus Ware, Sean Lee, Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick, Zack Martin were dumb, as was signing Deion Sanders.

I think this may illustrate the difficulty with your thinking - your belief seems to be if the overall track record isn't good that means every single move was bad, and that's not logical. It's not all or nothing. There were good things Jerry did, and things that were reasonable choices that didn't work out, and then there were a lot of bad choices. The overall track record shows that he has been a bad GM, no question about that, but that doesn't somehow make mean there was never a good move or reasonable choice. That's like saying if a player had an overall bad career it somehow means a touchdown he scored was a bad play.

Jerry wasn't the GM when he hired Jimmy, who was a proven winner in College BTW. He was the owner when he made those moves. He was GM when he picked up Deion, anyone with a brain could have made that decision. But what smart moves has he made since our last Super Bowl title as a GM that worked?

 

[OmerV]

Maybe in 5 years, no threat to Garrett of course.

In 5 years Garrett will either have won and his job will be rock solid (I'm not betting on that) or he will be ousted regardless of who is the QB coach in 2018. It's not about the QB coach, its about whether Garrett finds a way to win or not.

Your whole idea doesn't even make sense. If the assistant coaches are highly successful, and therefore become a candidate for a head coaching spot, the head coach for the team they are an assistant with will also have been successful, therefore the assistant will have to move to a new team for a promotion, and was never a threat to the head coach to begin with. If the head coach fails, and therefore is vulnerable, his assistants will also have failed, and therefore will not be a candidate for the head coaching position anyway. That's how it works. QB coaches are not pushing their head coach out the door and taking their job with any team, and it's incredibly rare for that to ever happen with any team. You are acting as if that is a Jerry thing, but it is an NFL thing with every NFL team and throughout NFL history.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I’d take you guys more seriously if you could acknowledge there’s a lot of football knowledge spread between Linehan and Garrett. Even if you think they can’t call plays or put together game plans (they of course can), there’s a ton of QB and OC experience there.

And Moore can read defenses. He can’t throw footballs. He’s been in this offense since 2012. You’re not going to find a coach on the street who knows it better. You’ll find better coaches. But Linehan probably thinks we’ve already got that part covered.

I just prefer coaches that have actually, you know, coached before.

If you are going to build a house, do you hire somebody that has never actually built one before? If you are going to have a surgery, do you go to a doctor that just graduated from medical school and never actually has done the procedure before? If you are going to pick out a dentist for your kid to go to, do you pick out a pediatric dentist that has never actually worked on children's teeth before?

Experience matters, in both life and in football..............sometimes the best knowledge a person can have is knowing what they don't know.

 

[Clove]

In 5 years Garrett will either have won and his job will be rock solid (I'm not betting on that) or he will be ousted regardless of who is the QB coach in 2018. It's not about the QB coach, its about whether Garrett finds a way to win or not.

Your whole idea doesn't even make sense. If the assistant coaches are highly successful, and therefore become a candidate for a head coaching spot, the head coach for the team they are an assistant with will also have been successful, therefore the assistant will have to move to a new team for a promotion, and was never a threat to the head coach to begin with. If the head coach fails, and therefore is vulnerable, his assistants will also have failed, and therefore will not be a candidate for the head coaching position anyway. That's how it works. QB coaches are not pushing their head coach out the door and taking their job with any team, and it's incredibly rare for that to ever happen with any team. You are acting as if that is a Jerry thing, but it is an NFL thing with every NFL team and throughout NFL history.

What happened to Wade Phillips when Garrett was an assistant?

 

[Cowpolk]

Jerry finally found someone uglier than him do you really think he will let him go away

 

[OmerV]

Jerry wasn't the GM when he hired Jimmy, who was a proven winner in College BTW. He was the owner when he made those moves. He was GM when he picked up Deion, anyone with a brain could have made that decision. But what smart moves has he made since our last Super Bowl title as a GM that worked?

He was the owner making the decisions - do you really think Tex Schramm was the one who decided to hire Jimmy?

As for "anyone with a brain could have made that decision", it doesn't matter because you said all Jerry's decisions were dumb. Are you know saying all Jerry's decisions were dumb, except the ones that weren't? Besides, it wasn't just about the decision - it's not as if Deion didn't have other choices. Jerry had to make the deal happen, and Deion wasn't going to sign for chicken feed.

As for other decisions that worked out after our last Super Bowl title, how can you say all of Jerry's decisions have been bad, yet exclude Larry Allen and Deion Sanders? If I named nobody else, those two prove your point was wrong. But even so, I also named Witten, Ware, Lee, Smith, Frederick and Martin, and I would also say Romo was a strong player, along with Dexter Coakley and Andre Gurode, Jay Ratliff and Flozell Adams were strong draft choices and Terry Glenn and La'roi Glover were nice free agent pick ups. Again, not even close to enough to mean Jerry has been a good GM, but it's ridiculous to call these dumb decisions.

 

[Clove]

He was the owner making the decisions - do you really think Tex Schramm was the one who decided to hire Jimmy?

As for "anyone with a brain could have made that decision", it doesn't matter because you said all Jerry's decisions were dumb. Are you know saying all Jerry's decisions were dumb, except the ones that weren't? Besides, it wasn't just about the decision - it's not as if Deion didn't have other choices. Jerry had to make the deal happen, and Deion wasn't going to sign for chicken feed.

As for other decisions that worked out after our last Super Bowl title, how can you say all of Jerry's decisions have been bad, yet exclude Larry Allen and Deion Sanders? If I named nobody else, those two prove your point was wrong. But even so, I also named Witten, Ware, Lee, Smith, Frederick and Martin, and I would also say Romo was a strong player, along with Dexter Coakley and Andre Gurode, Jay Ratliff and Flozell Adams were strong draft choices and Terry Glenn and La'roi Glover were nice free agent pick ups. Again, not even close to enough to mean Jerry has been a good GM, but it's ridiculous to call these dumb decisions.

He didn't hire Jimmy as the GM of the Dallas Cowboys. He hired Deion as the GM, one decision on an already stacked Super Bowl caliber team, was his only good hire. So one out of a thousand bad mistakes makes him a terrible GM. Hiring Moore is one of thousands of mistakes. He hires no one that will challenge Garrett, but he hired Garrett to challenge Phillips. So your GM has done nothing but make mistake after mistake over a 22 year period. But continue to take up for him, and watch another decade pass you buy. For your sake, I hope you're like 13, that way you have time for Jerry to finally die and have a chance at a dominate franchise again.

 

[OmerV]

What happened to Wade Phillips when Garrett was an assistant?

WOW, you have one example in 100 years of NFL play, and 29 years of Jerry Jones owning the Cowboys! That's it - that makes it the norm around the entire NFL!

Holy smoke, you are still all or nothing, and it is totally illogical. For the purpose of your narrative, something that happens once is the way things are all the time as long as it suits your narrative, and something that doesn't fit your narrative never happens (like Jerry making a good decision). For your purposes the lessons of history mean nothing, and only the cherry picked things you that fit your narrative count.

Even so, Garrett wasn't the QB coach, he was the Assistant head coach and O-Coordinator, and Wade was fired mid-season, so there really isn't a choice except to go with an interim coach in that situation. And lets not mention that one incident does not change the fact that that it is incredibly rare for an assistant coach to take over for a head coach, and that it is miles and miles from what is normal in the NFL. You are acting like it is normal around the NFL and Jerry is the only one that isn't threating his head coach with a QB coach who is a head coaching candidate.

 

[Clove]

WOW, you have one example in 100 years of NFL play, and 29 years of Jerry Jones owning the Cowboys! That's it - that makes it the norm around the entire NFL!

Holy smoke, you are still all or nothing, and it is totally illogical. For the purpose of your narrative, something that happens once is the way things are all the time as long as it suits your narrative, and something that doesn't fit your narrative never happens (like Jerry making a good decision). For your purposes the lessons of history mean nothing, and only the cherry picked things you that fit your narrative count.

Even so, Garrett wasn't the QB coach, he was the Assistant head coach and O-Coordinator, and Wade was fired mid-season, so there really isn't a choice except to go with an interim coach in that situation. And lets not mention that one incident does not change the fact that that it is incredibly rare for an assistant coach to take over for a head coach, and that it is miles and miles from what is normal in the NFL. You are acting like it is normal around the NFL and Jerry is the only one that isn't threating his head coach with a QB coach who is a head coaching candidate.

I wish he would do a reversal and a hire someone to push Garrett out like he did with Phillips. Oh what a joyful day that would be.

 

[OmerV]

He didn't hire Jimmy as the GM of the Dallas Cowboys. He hired Deion as the GM, one decision on an already stacked Super Bowl caliber team, was his only good hire. So one out of a thousand bad mistakes makes him a terrible GM. Hiring Moore is one of thousands of mistakes. He hires no one that will challenge Garrett, but he hired Garrett to challenge Phillips. So your GM has done nothing but make mistake after mistake over a 22 year period. But continue to take up for him, and watch another decade pass you buy. For your sake, I hope you're like 13, that way you have time for Jerry to finally die and have a chance at a dominate franchise again.

So, you ARE saying Jerry has never made a good decision as GM .... except now contradicting yourself by admitting to one good hire.

Well, that's a start, but I still find it funny that you don't think guys like Larry Allen, who is arguably the best O-Lineman of all time, was a good choice. Or shoo in Hall of Famers like Ware and Witten. What is your argument against these guys except that Jerry was the GM at the time?

 

[OmerV]

I wish he would do a reversal and a hire someone to push Garrett out like he did with Phillips. Oh what a joyful day that would be.

He didn't hire Garrett to push Wade out, he hired Garrett before Wade got there. There was never much secret that Jerry saw Garrett as a rising star in the coaching ranks, and Wade took the head coaching job knowing that. It was an unusual situation

 

[Clove]

So, you ARE saying Jerry has never made a good decision as GM .... except now contradicting yourself by admitting to one good hire.

Well, that's a start, but I still find it funny that you don't think guys like Larry Allen, who is arguably the best O-Lineman of all time, was a good choice. Or shoo in Hall of Famers like Ware and Witten. What is your argument against these guys except that Jerry was the GM at the time?

Did they win any Super Bowl titles?

 

[OmerV]

Did they win any Super Bowl titles?

That's irrelevant to your argument that every choice Jerry made was a bad one. Not winning a Super Bowl doesn't mean every single player the team ever hired was a bad choice.

 

[Clove]

That's irrelevant to your argument that every choice Jerry made was a bad one. Not winning a Super Bowl doesn't mean every single player the team ever hired was a bad choice.

If any of your decisions doesn't lead to Super Bowl titles, I could care less about them, so yeah, they are bad.

 

[OmerV]

If any of your decisions doesn't lead to Super Bowl titles, I could care less about them, so yeah, they are bad.

Okay, just know it isn't logical to argue that it was a bad choice to hire some of the best players in the history. Clearly the team had a much better chance to win with these players than had the team acquired a lesser player. What you are saying is that for even a single choice to be a good choice, that one choice alone has to be able to carry the team to a Super Bowl victory.

Oh, and by the way, Deion and Larry Allen actually were contributors to a Super Bowl winning team.

I'm wondering, was drafting Peyton Manning a stupid choice by the Colts from 1998-2005?

 

[jjktkk]

Again, so why will he be better? I believe you stated that he will be better next year.

It's all hope so far. Especially with hiring a rookie QB coach. Simple hope.

No I did not. This 3rd year is crucial for Dak, that's for sure.

 

[Cowpolk]

If any of your decisions doesn't lead to Super Bowl titles, I could care less about them, so yeah, they are bad.

False

 

[Idgit]

I just prefer coaches that have actually, you know, coached before.

If you are going to build a house, do you hire somebody that has never actually built one before? If you are going to have a surgery, do you go to a doctor that just graduated from medical school and never actually has done the procedure before? If you are going to pick out a dentist for your kid to go to, do you pick out a pediatric dentist that has never actually worked on children's teeth before?

Experience matters, in both life and in football..............sometimes the best knowledge a person can have is knowing what they don't know.

I do, too.

I just don’t think Dak is going to be hurting for experienced QB support, overall.

Though I do hope was sign a veteran backup for him who’s won some games in the league. Dak seems to perform better when he’s getting pushed.