Burnett = bust?

[SupermanXx]

well there you have it boys.... blindzebra : bobby carpenter :: pittdawg : rob pettiti

 

[THUMPER]

I watched it. Several times. I wasn't as excited about his play as some here. It was fine play, but I'm not sure it was any better than Carpenter necessarily.

Carpenter had a pick on a tipped pass and a nice tackle but that was about it. Burnett was all over the place making plays and big hits. He was also in the QB's face a couple of times. It seemed to me that he was markedly more productive.

 

[blindzebra]

Where is the hypocrisy?

Where isn't it, is a better question.

 

[THUMPER]

Where isn't it, is a better question.

I don't believe it is hypocrisy. People have higher expectations of a 1st rounder than they do of a 2nd round pick. Your first pick should be a player and a starter. Spender was taken later than Carpenter yet he would be pushing Ellis for the starting job if Greg were healthy. As it is he will be the starter on Day-1 and Ellis is likely to be the guy coming in off the bench.

That's what you expect from a 1st round pick.

2nd rounders are not expected to start right away but they are expected to contribute. Burnett was hurt and had a tough time getting out of Parcells' doghouse. I also think he was misused some. He looks much more comfortable in Phillips' defense as it relies more on speed than on bulk, he seems better suited to it than to Parcells' 3-4.

 

[blindzebra]

There is a world of difference between the #18 (Carpenter) pick and the #42 (Burnett). They are NEARLY a round apart (#42 was the 10th pick in the 2nd round).

If you don't think so, then take a look at the value difference: 900 for #18, 480 for #42, NEARLY double.

And that means what exactly...care to dig up the success rates on picks 15-50, they are probably pretty damn even...every year we hear about this is a 10 player draft, a 15 player draft and after that, there isn't much of a difference between the rest of the first and the upper second.

It still comes down to this:

Both were high draft picks.

Both have yet to win starting jobs.

Every excuse you can make for Kevin, is also true for Bobby.

Bobby was drafted a little higher, Kevin has been in the league a year longer, it evens out.

 

[JIMMYBUFFETT]

I'll give him this year in a new system that supposedly plays "to the player's strength" before I hand out any labels . After that I'll be on the same bandwagon .

 

[Mr Cowboy]

I think BP soured on him when he showed up at the rookie mini camp in cruthches due to hip surgery he had w/o notifying the team. He never got out of BP's dog house after that.

Then he tears up his knee late in the year, and BP signs Ayodele, thinking Burnett wouldn't be ready and handed Ayodele the job. Burnett has never really had the chance to challenge for any of the jobs. BP did mention after drafting him that he was a bubble LB, meaning an ILB, yet he played him outside behind Ware.

 

[blindzebra]

I don't believe it is hypocrisy. People have higher expectations of a 1st rounder than they do of a 2nd round pick. Your first pick should be a player and a starter. Spender was taken later than Carpenter yet he would be pushing Ellis for the starting job if Greg were healthy. As it is he will be the starter on Day-1 and Ellis is likely to be the guy coming in off the bench.

That's what you expect from a 1st round pick.

2nd rounders are not expected to start right away but they are expected to contribute. Burnett was hurt and had a tough time getting out of Parcells' doghouse. I also think he was misused some. He looks much more comfortable in Phillips' defense as it relies more on speed than on bulk, he seems better suited to it than to Parcells' 3-4.

I love it, Ellis being hurt has nothing to do with it huh?

Had Ellis not popped his achilles, would we have even drafted Spencer?

If Ellis was healthy, Spencer is on the bench, Wade has said it, and you darn well know it's true.

Carp was coming off a broken leg, rolled an ankle the first week of TC, got moved inside, was learning the 3-4...like I said, every excuse you are making for Burnett is also true for Carpenter.

 

[HopeCowboyFan]

There is a world of difference between the #18 (Carpenter) pick and the #42 (Burnett). They are NEARLY a round apart (#42 was the 10th pick in the 2nd round).

If you don't think so, then take a look at the value difference: 900 for #18, 480 for #42, NEARLY double.

Bingo

Big difference between #18 and mid second rounder. Burnett is flying around out there and has nailed nickel LB Duties and I predict be starting at some point this season.

Both Carp and Burnett have underperformed to date.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I pretty much get what you're saying, BZ... Burnett seems like he's escaped some scrutiny.

But... Besides being a lower pick, I think Burnett benefits from one thing: I'm not sure Parells even wanted him to start with. I still scratch my head at why we'd even draft a converted safety whose game is speed and quickness and struggled to stay at 235 lbs, when that is exactly the opposite of what Parcells wanted in a linebacker. Did Lacewell activate the chip he'd implanted in Jerry's brain? Did we want strictly a cover/nickel LB? I dunno.

But I almost can't blame the player for not playing in a system that didn't suit him from the start. Carpenter, on the other hand, we know all the Parcells connections. So it seems more like Bobby just wasn't good enough.

And again... I like both players. Just offering some ideas on why people see them differently. I still think it's mostly that one was a first rounder and one a second. Plus, Ware is so good that he could almost save that draft almost by himself.

 

[Rack]

If he'd been put inside immediately we wouldn't have signed Ayodele and Burnett would be starting right now. Parcells mistakenly believed he was an OLB. Nevermind that he doesn't have the body type at all for a 3-4 OLB.

If only BP were as knowledgable as you.





Burnett wouldn't last the season as a starter.

And the fact that he's not starting (same for Carp) says more about the talent level on the roster then it does for the lack of talent from Burnett/Carp.

 

[AtlCB]

Where isn't it, is a better question.

If you are going to make the claim, you should give examples. You need to come up with examples of posters specifically saying Carp is a bust and Burnett isn't or vice versa without the poster giving some kind of good explanation.

 

[blindzebra]

I pretty much get what you're saying, BZ... Burnett seems like he's escaped some scrutiny.

But... Besides being a lower pick, I think Burnett benefits from one thing: I'm not sure Parells even wanted him to start with. I still scratch my head at why we'd even draft a converted safety whose game is speed and quickness and struggled to stay at 235 lbs, when that is exactly the opposite of what Parcells wanted in a linebacker. Did Lacewell activate the chip he'd implanted in Jerry's brain? Did we want strictly a cover/nickel LB? I dunno.

But I almost can't blame the player for not playing in a system that didn't suit him from the start. Carpenter, on the other hand, we know all the Parcells connections. So it seems more like Bobby just wasn't good enough.

And again... I like both players. Just offering some ideas on why people see them differently. I still think it's mostly that one was a first rounder and one a second. Plus, Ware is so good that he could almost save that draft almost by himself.

So Parcells would draft a guy in the first round, go against Jerry and the scouts, just because his dad played for him?

Parcells had his faults, but stupid sentimentality over his legacy wasn't one of them.

If that is the best they can come up with, they are wackier than I thought.:laugh2:

 

[blindzebra]

If you are going to make the claim, you should give examples. You need to come up with examples of posters specifically saying Carp is a bust and Burnett isn't or vice versa without the poster giving some kind of good explanation.

Their story-lines and careers are too similar at this point for them not to be connected...therefore, if a poster is calling one a bust, but not the other, they are doing it for reasons other than the reality of the situation...IOW, it's an agenda.

IMO, it screams hypocrisy.

 

[AtlCB]

Their story-lines and careers are too similar at this point for them not to be connected...therefore, if a poster is calling one a bust, but not the other, they are doing it for reasons other than the reality of the situation...IOW, it's an agenda.

IMO, it screams hypocrisy.

Examples?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

So Parcells would draft a guy in the first round, go against Jerry and the scouts, just because his dad played for him?

Parcells had his faults, but stupid sentimentality over his legacy wasn't one of them.

If that is the best they can come up with, they are wackier than I thought.:laugh2:

Where did I say Parcells went against the scouts?

Just saying that Carpenter was the big-bodied LB that Parcells liked. Burnett wasn't.

And was the fact that Carpenter's dad played for Parcells (and they joked about how Rob would have a LB son for him) the only reason they picked him? Of course not. But did it hurt? I doubt it. Parcells talked several times about knowing Bobby would be raised the right way, etc.

 

[superpunk]

If you are going to make the claim, you should give examples. You need to come up with examples of posters specifically saying Carp is a bust and Burnett isn't or vice versa without the poster giving some kind of good explanation.

I agree.

These broad sweeping claims of hypocrisy are useless unless you can find examples of poster A saying "Carpenter is a bust" AND "Burnett is becoming a stud." As it is, instead of being clever - the "call-out" thread has just ended up being confusing.

Who the heck is this directed to?

I want names.

 

[Mash]

Parcelle's always liked kids that were raised with a football background....that and east coast kids....especially from Jersey

So many wondering about how much a 2nd rd pick should contribute....

Carter was picked in the late second....started....was a .500 Qb and he never got the excuses these other 2nd rounders got......

the shame

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

I can't see where people say he's a bust... I believe he's more catalytic than people give him credit for, everytime I see him play he's making something happen...

 

[K-Mart]

All i see are 2 guys who serve as back ups on the most important positions on our defense....also 2 guys that other GM's in this league would give their right arm for in November and December if numbers become thin on their rosters....Busts....I think not.....see Ahmad Carroll if you are looking for a Bust....