Byron Jones Regressing?

visionary

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He's just not a SS in my opinion. He could be a better corner. We need true safeties on this team. The SS should be a monster tackler and the FS should be an extreme ball-hawk. Neither of the players are those type guys. I do think Jones can play corner much better. He is very average at Safety and I don't think it is his fault. Just not his strong suit.

This is the old Jason Garrett logic

Guy does nothing as QB coach? It's because he needs to be OC

He does nothing as OC? It's because he should be HC

Now doing the same nothing as HC? He needs to be the GM

lol

Just because jones is not a good safety does not mean he will be a good CB
 

Sydla

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This is the old Jason Garrett logic

Guy does nothing as QB coach? It's because he needs to be OC

He does nothing as OC? It's because he should be HC

Now doing the same nothing as HC? He needs to be the GM

lol

Just because jones is not a good safety does not mean he will be a good CB

It's more than that. He looks competent when he lines up and covers TE and WRs man on man. Not excellent but still competent. I think that's why people suggest he's probably more likely to be a better CB than S.
 

JeffInDC

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Then play him at CB. Because when he's asked to fulfill actual safety requirements, he's mediocre at best.

I have no issues with Jones. But frankly, I think the staff is trying to stick a square peg into a round hole with when it comes to Jones.

This..............Xavier Woods, in his limited time, has shown me more instincts than Jones......and, that's not a knock on Jones. Jones is a very athletic guy, but I rather they stick him at corner. The FS in this scheme has to be able to handle a multitude of assignments. and jones only seems to be good at a few of those (and, tackling ain't one of them).
 

TwoCentPlain

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Sure looked like NYG Safety Landon Jones was regressing yesterday. If that means anything :)
Colts Safety Malik Hooker just tore his ACL and MCL. I expect some regression.
 

Pants

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this humors me, the poor guy has to do 100 things for his brief career, so now that he is starting to get some players around him, he isn't doing enough...the guy can't catch an interception OR a break around here

Love this Mr Jones
 

Kevinicus

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Byron Jones seems to be regressing as a Safety.
He is taking bad angles too many times.
I noticed a couple of times yesterday where he made horrible plays on the ball. I think there was one egregious instance yesterday where the WR caught the ball across the middle and Jones was clueless of location of the ball and ran toward Garcon who was no where near the play and the 49er receiver had an open field after the catch.
Jones does make some good plays but he isn't nearly as consistent as is expected.

Everyone here attacked Heath after that play.
 

gimmesix

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It doesnt take a brain surgeon to watch the games and see no picks, no great plays, no jarring hits that cause fumbles, ect...ect.... Great players stand out and they dont need defending by anyone.

i.e. Dak Prescott, Zeke Elliott, Martin, ect...ect....

Dak making a play with his feet or arm is the same as Jones coming up and making a stop at or behind the line of scrimmage. Elliott breaking tackles is the same as Jones breaking up a pass or forcing a bad throw because he's in the tight end/receiver's hip pocket. You can't compare the positions for "stand out" plays. The key is whether Jones is executing his assignments. If he's in the right place, if he's making tackles, if he's knocking away passes, then he's doing what he's supposed to do.

Your depiction is limited by what you are watching for. It would be like more like watching Elliott when he isn't handed the ball or thrown the ball. If the ball doesn't come Jones' way he's doing his job by not standing out. When it does come his way, he is standing out by making the play most of the time. When he fails to make the play, it's no different than Elliott being stuffed or losing yardage ... every player has bad plays.

If Jones has more bad plays than good ones or stands out because he is constantly getting beaten, then there would be reason to complain. That's not the case. Whether he should be making more interceptions, etc., again depends on opportunity and assignment. If he's in the right position to make a play and the quarterback throws to an open player elsewhere because of the coverage, is that Jones' fault? If the running back cuts to the inside because Jones is filling outside, is that Jones' fault?

Some are only going to be satisfied by interceptions and what they interpret as big plays. The wow plays seem to be the only thing that matters when in reaility they are only a small part of a much larger picture.
 

TheCoolFan

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He is what he is. I don't see him becoming the quarterback/leader of the secondary that we've been needing though...and that just means we will have to continue that search that is 15 years in the making (since Woodson).

Those early 2000s teams were not very good but Dat Nguyen and Darren Woodson were the quarterbacks of those defenses and statistically, the Cowboys defenses were much better than the overall team record would indicate. The defense will take the next step and get over that hump when they find that leader in the secondary to pair with Sean Lee in the front seven.
 

Jkyle

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Look at the pass play to Goodwin at 2:08 left in the 2nd Quarter.
The pass was caught by Goodwin on Heath's side of the field and Jones had a clear shot to either break up or stop the WR at that point. But, he took a horrible angle toward Garcon who was to the right of Goodwin and was no where near where the ball was going.
 

Nightman

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Fine isnt good enough for a first round pick. That is the point. Fine is for 3rd round and under.
Fine is absolutely good enough for a 1st round pick..... no picks are guaranteed and a 3 year starter is a huge win as a draft pick
 

CowboyRoy

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Dak making a play with his feet or arm is the same as Jones coming up and making a stop at or behind the line of scrimmage. Elliott breaking tackles is the same as Jones breaking up a pass or forcing a bad throw because he's in the tight end/receiver's hip pocket. You can't compare the positions for "stand out" plays. The key is whether Jones is executing his assignments. If he's in the right place, if he's making tackles, if he's knocking away passes, then he's doing what he's supposed to do.

Your depiction is limited by what you are watching for. It would be like more like watching Elliott when he isn't handed the ball or thrown the ball. If the ball doesn't come Jones' way he's doing his job by not standing out. When it does come his way, he is standing out by making the play most of the time. When he fails to make the play, it's no different than Elliott being stuffed or losing yardage ... every player has bad plays.

If Jones has more bad plays than good ones or stands out because he is constantly getting beaten, then there would be reason to complain. That's not the case. Whether he should be making more interceptions, etc., again depends on opportunity and assignment. If he's in the right position to make a play and the quarterback throws to an open player elsewhere because of the coverage, is that Jones' fault? If the running back cuts to the inside because Jones is filling outside, is that Jones' fault?

Some are only going to be satisfied by interceptions and what they interpret as big plays. The wow plays seem to be the only thing that matters when in reaility they are only a small part of a much larger picture.

Im not comparing the positions I am comparing the impact and the obvious great play. Trust me I watch all the game and all the plays and know what to look for. Jones is NOTHING special. Nothing special at all. Solid coverage is NOT enough for a safety. Maybe for you and some others. Certainly not for me.
 

CowboyRoy

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Fine is absolutely good enough for a 1st round pick..... no picks are guaranteed and a 3 year starter is a huge win as a draft pick

Fine is obviously good enough for you. Definitely NOT good enough for me for a first round pick. Starter is NOT a huge win for a FIRST round pick. Especially when his competition has been scrubs like Heath, Wilcox, ect...ect......
 

gimmesix

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Im not comparing the positions I am comparing the impact and the obvious great play. Trust me I watch all the game and all the plays and know what to look for. Jones is NOTHING special. Nothing special at all. Solid coverage is NOT enough for a safety. Maybe for you and some others. Certainly not for me.

I understand that you are not comparing positions, but I think that you are wrongly comparing impact. Impact for a running back is gaining 5 yards when he should have gained 10, 10 when he should have been stopped for 5, etc. Impact for a safety is being in the hip pocket of a tight end and forcing the QB to hold the ball an extra second, navigating the blocking traffic or beating the blocker and sticking a running back. knocking away a pass. These have the same value based on the position.

Now, if your problem with Jones is that he's not making plays equivalent to Elliott's 25-yard TD run or 72-yard screen, then you're right but I think your standard is wrong. Remember that he doesn't get as many chances to make those kind of plays and that Elliott is only making those kind of plays on a few of his touches. Elliott touches the ball 20-30 plays per game. Passes are thrown to Jones' coverage responsibility probably less than 10. Maybe if I'm being generous, he has 10 other opportunities where a running play gets to his area of responsibility. Have the QB try to throw at Jones 20-30 times and let's see the result.
 

CowboyRoy

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I understand that you are not comparing positions, but I think that you are wrongly comparing impact. Impact for a running back is gaining 5 yards when he should have gained 10, 10 when he should have been stopped for 5, etc. Impact for a safety is being in the hip pocket of a tight end and forcing the QB to hold the ball an extra second, navigating the blocking traffic or beating the blocker and sticking a running back. knocking away a pass. These have the same value based on the position.

Now, if your problem with Jones is that he's not making plays equivalent to Elliott's 25-yard TD run or 72-yard screen, then you're right but I think your standard is wrong. Remember that he doesn't get as many chances to make those kind of plays and that Elliott is only making those kind of plays on a few of his touches. Elliott touches the ball 20-30 plays per game. Passes are thrown to Jones' coverage responsibility probably less than 10. Maybe if I'm being generous, he has 10 other opportunities where a running play gets to his area of responsibility. Have the QB try to throw at Jones 20-30 times and let's see the result.

There is nothing you can say to convince me that Jones has been a great draft pick or that he is a great safety. Only jones can do that by making big plays which he simply doesnt do.

You look around the league all day long and safeties are creating havoc around the football. Jarring hits, interceptions, creating fumbles, sacking the QB, ect....ect... This IS not jones. Talk all you want about covering some TE's, its not enough. Enough for you, not for me.
 

Yakuza Rich

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I think a lot of people don't understand safety play because it can be more complicated than other positions depending on what the safety is required to do. You can't just see a receiver make a catch and assign blame to the safety because he's nearest or even see a safety fill the "wrong" gap against the run. Without knowing his assignments from play to play, it's easy to misevaluate.

Unless you have the ability to diagnose exactly what his responsibility was supposed to be on every play, the only way I know of to judge Jones is to watch how he handles assignments when he is one-on-one or when the back tries to go through the hole he is filling. For the most part, I see no problem with Jones' play in those situations.

Bryon plays a ton of man coverage and when they put him in zone it's either in a matchup zone or a 2 deep shell. 2 deep zone is pretty much passe these days and it doesn't allow the safety to make much in the way of plays compared to bracket coverage where the safety can actually do less actual covering and make big plays off an bad pass or a receiver tips a pass and the safety is there for the tip drill.

He's not at Earl Thomas' level...few are. But Thomas gets a lot more short zone coverage which allows him to make more interceptions.

The only bad plays I've seen from Byron watching All-22 in the past few games was the Jordy Nelson TD where the Packers were gashing Tyrone Crawford off the run and GB used play action and had a wide open Nelson for the TD. But everybody bit on the playfake because Crawford and M. Collins were so godawful in that game that GB was going to score. And the reception from Kittle. Byron uncharacteristically played that poorly as he should have diagnosed that Kittle was either going to go inside (which he did) or run a stop route.

Byron really saves us out there and I would surmise that he is to the defense very similarly to what Sean Lee is to this defense. Without him, we would be in massive trouble because he makes up for a lot of bad play from Heath and Frazier and greatly takes the load off in the pass game by being able to lock down on TE's, WR's and RB's.

And with that said, I wouldn't have a problem with him moving to corner next year if it was due to us finding a good SS, moving on from O-Scan and putting Woods at FS. That just goes to show how good and valuable Byron's flexibility is.

I can say with confidence that nobody in the NFL thinks that Byron is even an average safety. They think he's one of the top safeties in the entire league and he's have a better season than Landon Collins is at this point in time.




YR
 

stiletto

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I can say with confidence that nobody in the NFL thinks that Byron is even an average safety. They think he's one of the top safeties in the entire league and he's have a better season than Landon Collins is at this point in time.

YR

Can you provide some sources of who is saying that? Never heard anyone say he is a "top" safety... in game announcers don't count.
 
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