Campbell compared to Romo

silverbear

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MarkBrunell;1288389 said:
:lmao2: Yes he does have something special the great ones have. A QB rating of 77 in December, 6-8 TD/INT ratio with a total of 9 fumbles.

1) That rating is higher than Campbell's was...

2) You conveniently omit the fact he was the NFC Offensive Player of the Month in November...

3) Tony's in the Pro Bowl, Jason isn't...

Here endeth the lesson... and what have we learned, boys and girls??

Why, we've learned that Tony Romo played better than Jason Campbell did, in both players' first season as a starter...
 

silverbear

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MarkBrunell;1288389 said:
and the great ones couldn't beat Quincy Carter, Vinny Testaverde and Drew Bledsoe for a starting job up until their 4rth season:lmao:

Which is more of a commentary on Parcells than on Romo, I think... besides, if Brunell hadn't sucked, Jason would STILL be riding the pines... so we're supposed to give him credit for "earning" the starting job, when the reason he earned it was the ineptitude of his predecessor??

Meanwhile, Cowboys fans knew that at some point this season, it was going to be Romo time, unless Bledsoe just absolutely caught fire...
 

dre1614

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i have to admit, even tho i like Romo better, i do like Campbell's poise in the pocket.

NOW SKINS FANS DONT TAKE THIS TOO SERIOUSLY. But Campbell reminds me quite a bit of Tom Brady in terms of pocket presence, throwing motion, and poise. He is more mobile than Brady, but hasen't shown that accuracy yet tho.

Time will tell.
 

silverbear

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SkinsFan07;1288417 said:
tell me when i said Romo ever sucked b/c thats what you are making me sound like I did.

I have been impressed with him since he took over in the Giants game to now. A pro bowl qb who didnt play a whole year is good in my book.

But this is about JC and trying to get his "intangibles" into your heads.

Intangibles are for losers... get back to us when he has some TANGIBLE success, because as it is, the best thing you can say about him is he didn't turn the ball over a lot...

That alone won't get you in many Pro Bowls...

He said he plans on working out privately with the wr's over the offseason to get their timing down. So next year, watch out.

Timing wasn't the problem this year, his inaccuracy was... and that came from poor mechanics... now, lots of quarterbacks come into the league with shaky fundamentals, but most of them get them corrected before the start of their 3rd season in the league... unless you'd have me believe the Skins coaching staff is incompetent, I have to believe they've TRIED to correct those flaws, but obviously without a whole lot of success thus far...

Which makes it fair to question whether he'll EVER get his mechanics ironed out to the point he'll be a semi-accurate quarterback...
 

silverbear

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SkinsFan07;1288420 said:
And either Asante Samuel or Nate Clements will join the skins as a fa cb this offseason as well.

Guarantee it.

Then you must be anticipating the Skins cutting Ron Springs, and one or two others... I say that because the Skins are currently less than a million dollars under next year's projected salary cap, which is next to last in the league...

There are a LOT of teams with a LOT of money to spend, to the point where the Boys (with nearly 25 mil in cap room) are only around the middle of the pack... this means 2 things for free agency this year:

1) More teams will be able to afford to keep their free agents, leaving less quality talent to be had...

2) The good free agents will be getting ridiculous money this year... which will make it even harder for the Skins to find the cap room to sign a Clements or Samuel...

Beyond that, a 5-11 team-- ANY 5-11 team-- is more than a first round draft pick and a top free agent CB away from being a serious contender...
 

silverbear

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SkinsFan07;1288425 said:
please don't compare us to a team that has no pride whatsoever in their football organization.

pathetic.

Yeah, that was a little over the top... them and the Cards belong on their own separate level, well below the rest of the league... the Raiders probably belong down there, too...
 

silverbear

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SkinsFan07;1288461 said:
I'm calm!

Just trying to make you respect my opinion and not hassle me about everything I say.

Respect my opinion and I'll respect yours.

Thats it.

Fair enough, but on message boards you generally need to back your opinions up with hard facts to earn respect... do a bit more of that, rather than pontificating about "intangibles", and we might take your arguments a bit more seriously...
 

SkinsandTerps

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silverbear ? Ron Springs ?
You are getting old bro. Ron is the father.

And the cap argument is still unsubstantiated.
 

silverbear

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steve09ru;1288611 said:
In that case, let's go ahead and wait 'til Romo retires and Campbell is still playing and then we can compare the two those years:huh:...this is basically what you are stating...

No, that's not what I'm saying... I'm saying let's compare the two THIS YEAR, given that neither one had ever thrown a pass in a "real" NFL game before this year...

sure he's never taken a nfl snap prior to this year...BUT WATCHING FROM THE SIDELINE AND GAMEFILM sure does help him out those four years.

There is no substitute for on the field experience, and you know it... maybe it Campbell and Romo had fairly similar numbers, with Tony having a slight edge, your argument about learning while riding the pines would have some validity... but not when the disparity is as huge as it is...

there is no reason to say that romo is off the charts compared to campbell like you all are saying

Of course there is-- Romo's in the Pro Bowl, despite only starting 10 games... he was the NFC Offensive Player of the Month in November...

Campbell has done neither... in addition, Romo led his team to a 6-4 record, Campbell led his to a 2-5 record... advantage, Romo...
 

silverbear

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steve09ru;1288614 said:
It can be easily fixed...if u didn't know, he hadn't been working with the recievers up until he got the shot at starter, and that means no practice time or anything with them.

Wrong again... Campbell threw more passes than any Skins QB in preseason, including a coupla starts... in both preseasons, he has gotten a chance to work with his starters...

we have no starting recievers over 6'.

Hey, blame that on the Skins' coaches and management...
 

silverbear

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AdamJT13;1288616 said:
Ooh, now I'm scared. And I posted those numbers and others (with a lot more yet to be posted) because I just received them, they're the final stats for the regular season, and they're not available to most people. When would Your Majesty rather I post them? In February? March? May? Never? Well, too bad, because a lot of people have been wanting those numbers, so I posted them.

You keep on doing what you're doing, Adam... we all figured out a long time ago that bb seems to enjoy being a pedantic PITA...
 

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SkinsandTerps;1288632 said:
You are clearly selling yourself short.

Naw, I'm pretty good at bringing the facts to an argument, but NOBODY has access to better numbers than Adam does...

Thanks for the compliment, anyway...
 

silverbear

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bbgun;1288639 said:
If there's one thing I hate, it's a rotisserie geek.

And if there's one thing I hate, it's your arrogant abuse of one of this forum's most highly respected members...

I'd go into the other things I loathe about you, but it would get me banned...
 

silverbear

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SkinsandTerps;1288675 said:
silverbear ? Ron Springs ?
You are getting old bro. Ron is the father.

Didn't even realize I'd done that, LOL...

And the cap argument is still unsubstantiated.

Adam posted the exact numbers in a thread a week or so back, and I have always found his numbers to be reliable...
 

Dale

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SkinsandTerps;1288638 said:
Hey, read my posts on this thread. I havent dogged Romo at all. I think he has that magic word; " potential". He has his short-comings as much as Campbell does. My thoughts are that neither of them is truly superior at this point. YPA is meaningless, and QB rating is about the same. Completion rating though is certainly noteworthy.

And his poise is one of the main reasons I think he has potential. He makes a mistake and shakes it off like a good pro should.

Don't you think Romo has advanced past just the "potential" stage, though?

I mean, to have put up the numbers he did (a hair shy of 3,000 yards and 20 TDs in 10 starts, plus 65% completion and a 95 QB rating) along with taking the team to the postseason and earning a Pro Bowl berth.

To me, a guy with potential is Alex Smith.

Certainly, I think Romo can still get better and must continue to work to improve -- like every player -- to not become stale in this league. It's just difficult for me to look at him and casually say, "Eh, he's not too bad. Got some potential."

Curious to see what you think on that...Not sure if I'm reading too much on your use of potential, or if I'm just misreading your use.

Also, I agree stats can be manipulated. Kitna, for instance, threw for tons of yards -- but when you look at the INTs and other numbers (like the number of pass attempts), it becomes less impressive.

But I disagree that yards per attempt is meaningless. I don't think it's the most important stat, but I think it absolutely reflects how much of a downfield passer you have. Granted, Romo's YPA is helped, in part, by his high completion percentage (Campbell's, likewise, is likely skewed by his relatively low completion percentage).

But I think it reflects the fact he's a downfield passer and not a guy who's just dinking and dunking all over the place (like Carr did when he had a decent rating going).
 

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silverbear;1288689 said:
Adam posted the exact numbers in a thread a week or so back, and I have always found his numbers to be reliable...

Again with the numbers.

Look at Terry Bradshaws' int numbers. Yet many consider him an all time great.

He has rings ya know.

:p:
 

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dre1614;1288666 said:
i have to admit, even tho i like Romo better, i do like Campbell's poise in the pocket.

NOW SKINS FANS DONT TAKE THIS TOO SERIOUSLY. But Campbell reminds me quite a bit of Tom Brady in terms of pocket presence, throwing motion, and poise. He is more mobile than Brady, but hasen't shown that accuracy yet tho.

Time will tell.

Brady? People throw his name around too much. He reminds you of one of the best of an entire era of QB's? He reminds me of Quincy, a decent arm and decision making that makes you want to commit suicide.

Brady....come on, get real.
 

AdamJT13

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bbgun;1288639 said:
Romo had a two-year head start, a ton of pre-season snaps, some limited playing time before the Giants game, and a healthy, dynamic receiving corps at his service. When are you going to concede that the deck was stacked in his favor?

When did I say it wasn't? Romo should have played better than Campbell, and he most certainly did. But he also played better than he should have, given his lack of experience. He played well enough to be among the league leaders in quite a few categories, to lead his team into the playoffs and to be selected to the Pro Bowl by the coaches and the players.


How 'bout never? If there's one thing I hate, it's a rotisserie geek.

The stats I post have nothing to do with fantasy football. I really could care less about fantasy stats. The stats I have posted, and those that I will post, are the same ones that a lot of NFL teams pay to receive.


Here's part of an article from the Wall Street Journal that you might want to read. (Actually, you won't want to read it, because it makes you look foolish) --


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Football Fans Likely Don't Know League's Most-Coveted Stats


By CARL BIALIK
Wall Street Journal

February 4, 2005


National Football League teams love numbers.

The teams have moved well beyond traditional statistics like yards gained and passes completed, and now track a dizzying array of metrics aimed at evaluating their players' performances with mathematical precision. The two Super Bowl teams are at the vanguard of this stats revolution.


Yet fans don't have broad access to the newer numbers now being recorded -- like number of tackles fought off by ball carriers, or how often the quarterback is knocked down after releasing the ball.

Did you know that rookie running back Mewelde Moore of the Minnesota Vikings, who gained just 379 yards this year (top backs gain at least 1,000 yards, at least by traditional accounting), led the league in percentage of plays in which he broke free from a would-be tackler, with 23%? That means he was remarkably elusive at dodging tackles. (The league's two leading backs by yardage, Curtis Martin and Shaun Alexander, broke tackles on just 4% and 5.6% of plays, respectively.) Or did you know that among wide receivers with at least 50 catches, Minnesota's Nate Burleson gained the most yards per catch after receiving the ball (6.71 yards per catch)?

These stats, from News Corp.'s Stats Inc., start with game logs kept by "reporters" -- football fans paid $45 a game to analyze tapes of games. Three reporters log every play for each game, recording advanced stats like how many yards a receiver gains after making the catch, and how many balls are underthrown and overthrown to intended receivers. Those logs are reconciled in the company's Morton Grove, Ill., offices and then converted into what the company calls X-Info -- measurements that go beyond the box score. About half of all clubs buy the data. (Closely held Elias Sports Bureau, the league's official statistician, also collects some similar data but declined to discuss details.) Neither Stats nor Elias makes esoteric stats available publicly; both sell some stats to TV broadcasters.

Clubs use the data to value their own players, to scout opponents and to help make decisions on trades. But teams are highly secretive about how they use the numbers. The New York Giants, for example, justified a controversial mid-season quarterback change in a New York Times Magazine article by explaining that the benched QB, Kurt Warner, held the ball after the snap for much longer than average. We can't know just how pervasive such measurements are in the secretive NFL; the Giants wouldn't comment for this article. A spokesman said, "We're really not interested in publicizing what numbers we study to evaluate players."

The New England Patriots have the reputation as one of the most statistically minded franchises, but they, too, declined to comment. Jeffrey Lurie, owner of the Patriots' Super Bowl opponent, the Philadelphia Eagles, granted an interview but apologetically declined to get into details of how his club uses stats. "It's awfully hard to get anyone to talk about it because we don't want to reveal competitive strategies," he says.

This all stands in stark contrast to baseball, where fans with a mathematical bent sparked a reformation in how to value players. As chronicled last year in the Michael Lewis bestseller "Moneyball," over the last 30 years advanced stats spread from mimeographed newsletters to baseball front offices, where a few smart general managers embraced them and used them to get more bang for their buck in player acquisition.

In football, though, the teams have driven most of the improvements. Kansas City Chiefs coach Dick Vermeil, a stats guru, suggests new numbers for Stats Inc. to track, says Pete Moris, who helps manage advanced stats for the team. The league's salary cap equalizes teams' budgets, which has made factors like statistical analysis more important for teams' fortunes.

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Have you ever listened to Bill Parcells' press conferences when he provides some obscure statistic about winning percentages or rushing or turnovers or whatnot? He doesn't know those stats because he's playing fantasy football.

So feel free to wallow in ignorance, Your Majesty, while I provide the others with information that NFL teams feel is important and helps them win.
 

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Dale;1288690 said:
Don't you think Romo has advanced past just the "potential" stage, though?

Not yet, he has show me great in one series and then crap in the next. Kinda like Majkowski.

Dale;1288690 said:
I mean, to have put up the numbers he did (a hair shy of 3,000 yards and 20 TDs in 10 starts, plus 65% completion and a 95 QB rating) along with taking the team to the postseason and earning a Pro Bowl berth.

To me, a guy with potential is Alex Smith.

Alex Smith, but not Vince Young or Leinart ? To me the pro-bowl is another BS accolade. Like I stated Romo has done a pretty good job overall. I just dont think he is the greatest thing since sliced bread at this point.

Dale;1288690 said:
Certainly, I think Romo can still get better and must continue to work to improve -- like every player -- to not become stale in this league. It's just difficult for me to look at him and casually say, "Eh, he's not too bad. Got some potential."

You obviously havent read the entire thread. I have given praise and criticism to both guys. But at this point I dont think one is a clear cut better player.


Dale;1288690 said:
Curious to see what you think on that...Not sure if I'm reading too much on your use of potential, or if I'm just misreading your use.

Here it is. They both have the potential to be very good. It will depend on their individual development though.

A
Dale;1288690 said:
lso, I agree stats can be manipulated. Kitna, for instance, threw for tons of yards -- but when you look at the INTs and other numbers (like the number of pass attempts), it becomes less impressive.

I agree.

Dale;1288690 said:
But I disagree that yards per attempt is meaningless. I don't think it's the most important stat, but I think it absolutely reflects how much of a downfield passer you have. Granted, Romo's YPA is helped, in part, by his high completion percentage (Campbell's, likewise, is likely skewed by his relatively low completion percentage).

It varies from passer to passer, game to game, system to system.


Dale;1288690 said:
But I think it reflects the fact he's a downfield passer and not a guy who's just dinking and dunking all over the place (like Carr did when he had a decent rating going).

Although I think Carr has the potential to still be a good QB, his OL doesnt help him at all, not to mention his RB situation.
 

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SkinsandTerps;1288638 said:
YPA is meaningless

YPA has one of the highest correlations to winning of any statistic in the NFL, which makes it a very meaningful statistic.

http://www.twominutewarning.com/correlations.htm

In general, quarterbacks who attempt longer passes complete a lower percentage, while those who attempt shorter passes complete a higher percentage. What is rare about Romo's season is that he attempted longer passes AND completed a high percentage overall. His average completion came 8.4 yards downfield, which was the highest in the league since 2004. And he still managed to complete 65.3 percent of his passes.
 
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