Can Dak shine with new coach?

[sideon]

I think he is who he is regardless of the coach, but it would be stupid of the Cowboys to not at least try to bring a new coach in. I hate the Goff/Fisher analogy because Goff was a 1st round pick with a skilled arm.

 

[xwalker]

you can't win consistently with your QB running and some of those was not planned runs, but him taking off after he pulled the ball down. The Jags weren't spying on him and thus he ran wild....the titans had a spy on dak and everytime he tried to take off, they had a LB or safety chasing him out of bounce....they had decided we will not let him beat us with his legs, we are going to force him to pass it, knowing that they had a better chance of stopping him....

and yes good pass protection helps, but watch the titans game and how quickly Mariotta would get the ball out when he felt the pressure and dak would just pull the ball down and start running....

The point was that running helped the pass pro which shows that methods other than just replacing OLinemen can improve the pass protection (i.e. Good coaches would scheme for better pass pro).

The scheme allowed Mariota a place to throw the ball quickly when pressured.

Linehan/Garrett have taken the approach that they have a great OL that does not require help from the scheme.

The reason Romo had success in Garrett's scheme is because he scrambled around waiting for receivers to get open. They didn't scheme for better pass pro and they didn't scheme to succeed by having Romo get rid of the ball quickly.

Good Pass Pro = Dak Wins.

Good Coaching = Better Pass Pro.

Good Coaching = Less dependence on Pass Pro.

Going into this season they had 5 must stay healthy players:
Tyron
Martin
Frederick
Zeke
Dak

The Frederick health issue doomed this team. Other teams with better scheme/coaching could manage with a Looney type replacement but the Cowboys scheme/coaching can't.

I like the player they acquired (Amari Cooper) but to win this season they needed to trade to acquire OL coach Bill Callahan...

 

[cowboy_ron]

I think the improvement would be almost immediate with a change in HC/OC/QC.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The point was that running helped the pass pro which shows that methods other than just replacing OLinemen can improve the pass protection (i.e. Good coaches would scheme for better pass pro).

The scheme allowed Mariota a place to throw the ball quickly when pressured.

Linehan/Garrett have taken the approach that they have a great OL that does not require help from the scheme.

The reason Romo had success in Garrett's scheme is because he scrambled around waiting for receivers to get open. They didn't scheme for better pass pro and they didn't scheme to succeed by having Romo get rid of the ball quickly.

Good Pass Pro = Dak Wins.

Good Coaching = Better Pass Pro.

Good Coaching = Less dependence on Pass Pro.

Going into this season they had 5 must stay healthy players:
Tyron
Martin
Frederick
Zeke
Dak

The Frederick health issue doomed this team. Other teams with better scheme/coaching could manage with a Looney type replacement but the Cowboys scheme/coaching can't.

I like the player they acquired (Amari Cooper) but to win this season they needed to trade to acquire OL coach Bill Callahan...

I don't disagree that losing fredrick hurt. this is the same scheme as before including 2016, that everyone raves about. The problem is that the element of surprise is gone and the coaching staff hasn't adjusted. I am still against having Dak run, except maybe here and there and not every game, its just not a formula for success. Can better scheme help? yes. can better OL play help? yes. can better QB play help? yes. it seems that all of it is going apart at the seams, just like it all came together seemingly in 2016. its a feast or famine with this team.

btw, Romo made many great plays without scrambling, his ability to scramble just allowed us to make some plays when things would fall apart or take too long. it wasn't the norm, but the exception and the exceptions stand out in our mind, and the routine plays are ho hum....Romo was also a down field attacker and thus he often needed more time for the down field plays to develop. that's natural. Dak is not a down field thrower and often just dumps the ball or throws underneath, which is surprising why he has one of the highest average in time before he makes a throw.

regardless, the coaching staff hasn't adjusted to Dak and vice versa. I am not sure they know what to do with Dak and his limited abilities.

 

[xwalker]

I don't disagree that losing fredrick hurt. this is the same scheme as before including 2016, that everyone raves about. The problem is that the element of surprise is gone and the coaching staff hasn't adjusted. I am still against having Dak run, except maybe here and there and not every game, its just not a formula for success. Can better scheme help? yes. can better OL play help? yes. can better QB play help? yes. it seems that all of it is going apart at the seams, just like it all came together seemingly in 2016. its a feast or famine with this team.

btw, Romo made many great plays without scrambling, his ability to scramble just allowed us to make some plays when things would fall apart or take too long. it wasn't the norm, but the exception and the exceptions stand out in our mind, and the routine plays are ho hum....Romo was also a down field attacker and thus he often needed more time for the down field plays to develop. that's natural. Dak is not a down field thrower and often just dumps the ball or throws underneath, which is surprising why he has one of the highest average in time before he makes a throw.

regardless, the coaching staff hasn't adjusted to Dak and vice versa. I am not sure they know what to do with Dak and his limited abilities.

Average time to throw does not account for how often the QB scrambled to avoid pressure. It's a meaningless stat in regards to judging the quality of pass protection.

Dak requires an open receiver for deep throws. He was 68% to Butler last season on throws over 20 yards. Butler's only value was going deep but it shows that Dak can complete long passes when given the opportunity and a receiver that can function downfield.

 

[Kevinicus]

No.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Average time to throw does not account for how often the QB scrambled to avoid pressure. It's a meaningless stat in regards to judging the quality of pass protection.

Dak requires an open receiver for deep throws. He was 68% to Butler last season on throws over 20 yards. Butler's only value was going deep but it shows that Dak can complete long passes when given the opportunity and a receiver that can function downfield.

LOL....68% to butler.....that;s funny.....you including butler in your argument..... just too funny...

Dak sucks, that's the beginning, middle and end of story....

 

[Doomsay]

He can’t change enough to compensate for the advantage that good defenses have over him. They will always force him to make anticipatory passes or accurate throws into tight coverage - 2 things he’s never been able to do, because he lacks talent, vision and forethought.

 

[Melonfeud]

Don't know. But I do know if we stick with Dak he needs new coaches. This offense is not working out.

@GORICO, the entire page#2 of yer' THREAD is worthy of an twice read for the most part,my friend
( IMO),,,

*Man, I spend way too much time reading every page of posted threads

 

[Melonfeud]

lol....This is Funny...dang Dak you even lost Skip.....look at 2:15 into the video LOL

Regardless of what my forum fellows personally think, I do enjoy SHANNON SHARPS presented take on most things,,,he reminds me of somebody I used to know,in his presented convictions ,that's long gone& dead in the past

 

[Zman5]

I think its really difficult to evaluate Dak based on our current coaching and play calling. Im not a Dak fanatical or a hater. I though I was seeing progress the last few games, and then last week happened and it was hard to watch.

If Im coaching Dak I am making certain he runs the ball 5 times a game MINIMUM. Im also putting him on the move where he seems to excel and Im calling faster developing plays.

Someone mentioned in another thread how Romo often held the ball too long as well and I have to question how much the system is hurting our QB play. It sickens me to see our lame coaching and play calling week after week.

All said Id be happy to give someone else a shot, but it appears we have no one else.

The reason Dak was doing better few games before the Titans game was because he was running more in those game. Either by design or the run option. He didn't run at all against the Titans.

I think Dak getting half concussed against the Deadskins spooked the coaches and didn't allow Dak to run. Unless the OL plays a great, Dak needs to run more to keep the defense honest.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

The point was that running helped the pass pro which shows that methods other than just replacing OLinemen can improve the pass protection (i.e. Good coaches would scheme for better pass pro).

The scheme allowed Mariota a place to throw the ball quickly when pressured.

Linehan/Garrett have taken the approach that they have a great OL that does not require help from the scheme.

The reason Romo had success in Garrett's scheme is because he scrambled around waiting for receivers to get open. They didn't scheme for better pass pro and they didn't scheme to succeed by having Romo get rid of the ball quickly.

Good Pass Pro = Dak Wins.

Good Coaching = Better Pass Pro.

Good Coaching = Less dependence on Pass Pro.

Going into this season they had 5 must stay healthy players:
Tyron
Martin
Frederick
Zeke
Dak

The Frederick health issue doomed this team. Other teams with better scheme/coaching could manage with a Looney type replacement but the Cowboys scheme/coaching can't.

I like the player they acquired (Amari Cooper) but to win this season they needed to trade to acquire OL coach Bill Callahan...

Another Dak employee here I guess oh well here goes ....ya gotta give Dak a perfect offensive world for him to perform we understans ..... now how much is Dak's PR guy paying you Walker man?
STOP posting Crazy .....Dak STINKS !!!!!!

 

[Jason 82 Witten]

Dak would be fine with the right coaching

 

[Section446]

Nope... Dak is a below average starting QB, he is what he is.

 

[CWR]

The reason Dak was doing better few games before the Titans game was because he was running more in those game. Either by design or the run option. He didn't run at all against the Titans.

I think Dak getting half concussed against the Deadskins spooked the coaches and didn't allow Dak to run. Unless the OL plays a great, Dak needs to run more to keep the defense honest.

Its so ridiculous, they act like they are conserving Peyton Manning. Daks games is his wheels, gotta let him roll.

 

[kevm3]

Dak can, and if he doesn't, we'll probably be in position to draft a qb high next year. This is why it's important to change coaches before next season starts. We need to see if Dak is the guy or not.

 

[Redsfan_83]

how many players over the years can be come up with who turned into all pro's with other teams? This should answer the question perhaps. Zeke has been wasted by these clowns, and look how our D has played under a tried and tested DC group? Coaching is so big it's not even funny, and clearly we lack in the offense and it all comes down to our coaches

 

[ConstantReboot]

Dak is #2 in QB rating when using play action and #28 in QB rating for the rest of the passes yet we are 20th in play action attempts. The Rams are #1 in playaction attempts.

Just think about that for a second. You have a player who is #2 in the league at doing one thing and #28 in doing another thing. Common sense will tell you that you should make him do more of thing he is really good at and not have him do what he is really bad at. Not this coaching staff.

That's equivalent to having DWare drop back to play coverage most of the time instead of having him rush the passer. How stupid can they be?

The coaching staff uses their talent the wrong way. For a run-heavy team, they never take advantage of play action, bootlegs or RPO. The offense just doesn't fit Dak.

Its like Byron Jones playing out of position all these years. Now he's at corner he seems to be doing pretty well. Put Dak in a position to success, he'll succeed.

Our coaches are that stupid.

 

[xwalker]

Another Dak employee here I guess oh well here goes ....ya gotta give Dak a perfect offensive world for him to perform we understans ..... now how much is Dak's PR guy paying you Walker man?
STOP posting Crazy .....Dak STINKS !!!!!!

People said Aikman was not good enough after his 2nd season. People wanted Steve Walsh to replace Aikman during the 1990 season.

Then Erik Williams arrived. By the start of the '92 season, Erik Williams at RT allowed Nate to move to OG. EW's take no prisoners attitude make that OLine feared by all opponents. They could pound the defense with Emmitt and Aikman could function to perfection.

Once the OL started declining after the 3rd Super Bowl, Aikman started to struggle.

Jerry thought Aikman needed another WR and traded two 1sts for Joey Galloway. In reality they needed another top OLineman to allow Aikman to run his style of offense.

Later Romo came along and his style didn't require an elite OL.

Now they are back to running the nineties type offensive scheme that was dependent on execution and individual receivers winning their matchups.

Unfortunately, regardless of Martin/Tyron/Frederick being All Pro, they don't have an Erik Williams making Reggie White cry for his momma or Romo running around avoiding defenders for 6 seconds waiting for Dez to get open. The simple scheme is not good enough.

At least this year they shifted their WR focus to smart players that are well above average route runners. This should allow for a better scheme than they could run with Dez as the primary target.

A better scheme would make it easier for Dak; therefore, there is no excuse for not implementing a modern scheme other than the coaches that are stuck in their old scheme.

Let's see a modern scheme and if Dak fails I'll jump on the draft a QB bandwagon.

They also have to sort out the OL. The OL coach that was fired appears to have made Collins worse. They say Collins struggled the most with the new techniques and he has struggled with penalties in the games. Columbo/Houck can't undo that immediately.

For next season, they can swap Collins and C-Williams.

Playing OG allows Collins to use his power and his limited foot quickness won't force him to hold outside speed rushers.

C-Williams has elite foot quickness but needs more size/power. He's already stronger than Doug Free and they managed to function quite well with Free at RT once Bill Callahan came in and devised an OL scheme to protect Free.

If Frederick returns, then the sky is the limit if they get a legit NFL offensive coordinator.

Even if you were right about Dak, there would be no point drafting a QB with Garrett/Linehan running the offense.

Give Josh McDaniels 10M a year to replace Garrett but keep him out of the draft room and Dak will be a Super Bowl caliber QB.

I can't root for the Cowboys to lose games, but long term it would be better if they failed this season to the point of getting Garrett fired.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

People said Aikman was not good enough after his 2nd season. People wanted Steve Walsh to replace Aikman during the 1990 season.

Then Erik Williams arrived. By the start of the '92 season, Erik Williams at RT allowed Nate to move to OG. EW's take no prisoners attitude make that OLine feared by all opponents. They could pound the defense with Emmitt and Aikman could function to perfection.

Once the OL started declining after the 3rd Super Bowl, Aikman started to struggle.

Jerry thought Aikman needed another WR and traded two 1sts for Joey Galloway. In reality they needed another top OLineman to allow Aikman to run his style of offense.

Later Romo came along and his style didn't require an elite OL.

Now they are back to running the nineties type offensive scheme that was dependent on execution and individual receivers winning their matchups.

Unfortunately, regardless of Martin/Tyron/Frederick being All Pro, they don't have an Erik Williams making Reggie White cry for his momma or Romo running around avoiding defenders for 6 seconds waiting for Dez to get open. The simple scheme is not good enough.

At least this year they shifted their WR focus to smart players that are well above average route runners. This should allow for a better scheme than they could run with Dez as the primary target.

A better scheme would make it easier for Dak; therefore, there is no excuse for not implementing a modern scheme other than the coaches that are stuck in their old scheme.

Let's see a modern scheme and if Dak fails I'll jump on the draft a QB bandwagon.

They also have to sort out the OL. The OL coach that was fired appears to have made Collins worse. They say Collins struggled the most with the new techniques and he has struggled with penalties in the games. Columbo/Houck can't undo that immediately.

For next season, they can swap Collins and C-Williams.

Playing OG allows Collins to use his power and his limited foot quickness won't force him to hold outside speed rushers.

C-Williams has elite foot quickness but needs more size/power. He's already stronger than Doug Free and they managed to function quite well with Free at RT once Bill Callahan came in and devised an OL scheme to protect Free.

If Frederick returns, then the sky is the limit if they get a legit NFL offensive coordinator.

Even if you were right about Dak, there would be no point drafting a QB with Garrett/Linehan running the offense.

Give Josh McDaniels 10M a year to replace Garrett but keep him out of the draft room and Dak will be a Super Bowl caliber QB.

I can't root for the Cowboys to lose games, but long term it would be better if they failed this season to the point of getting Garrett fired.

So Dak will become a star QB once Garrett and Linehan is gone....you have my sympathies and GL with that....