Can La'el Collins play RT?

[Toruk_Makto]

Martin has short arms and is an elite RG. We shouldn't (and likely won't) consider moving him.

 

[jobberone]

I think that might get considered. Tackle is a more premium position.

I do think the Cowboys like martin lined up next to Frederick. It virtually ensures a zone to run behind. (which we sometimes under-utilize)

This is off the top of my head so I might be misremembering it. But I think we ran best over Martin and Free which should surprise a lot of people. Somebody check me on it. I don't get PFF individual stats anymore.

 

[T-RO]

This is off the top of my head so I might be misremembering it. But I think we ran best over Martin and Free which should surprise a lot of people. Somebody check me on it. I don't get PFF individual stats anymore.

I posted some numbers about that 6 or 8 weeks ago. I don't recall the details, but the results did run counter to the harsher Free critics.

 

[SportsGuru80]

Yes I believe he'll be the starting RT in 2017...

 

[jobberone]

Green and Free will compete for RT in 17 is what I'm currently thinking. Dynamic and fluid situation though so could change. People don't want to hear that but we only gave up 36 sacks in 16 and were 2nd in rush yards with our best tandem being Martin-Free running off tackle. Now I don't how how much of that got skewed by EE jumping outside around right end so without an indepth look that should be looked at critically.

We only got 28 sacks which is pitiful. And giving up 36 is something to be improved on albeit ok.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Collins played some RT in OTA's when he first came to Dallas and was terrible, struggled with his footwork and technique.

He was quickly moved to LG where he has stayed the last two years, he has never played RT in college or in an NFL game.

Prior to the draft, scouts looked at him as a possible swing tackle but Brugler and others viewed him ideally suited for G in the NFL and based on what the Cowboys have done with him accordingly, he is right.

I think the question is not can he play RT but rather should he attempt to play any RT since he is better suited at playing G in the NFL.

Free agency and the draft can add to the RT position depth with players who are ideally suited to play the RT position.

I put this right with your take of his college ability.

They gave him a week there and decided to give him a shot at guard as a rookie. The stuff about footwork and technique is just more garbage you made up.

Brugler did not say that. Brugler said that he could play either. Shall we revisit the actual quotes again? This time you should try being intellectually honest and posting everything he wrote on the matter and not just what you want to read.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Collins has the lateral agility, length and otherwise ability to play either tackle spot in the NFL.

 

[noshame]

While this is a poor draft for left tackles there should be lots of guys falling that would be great right tackles

If there's a good one there halfway through the second I'd move up and grab him

 

[JoeyBoy718]

While this is a poor draft for left tackles there should be lots of guys falling that would be great right tackles

If there's a good one there halfway through the second I'd move up and grab him

Trade up for an OLman? No thanks. We already have two big-money OLmen with at least one more on the way. You can only devote so many resources to one positional group. Unless a can't miss RT falls to us, I don't see how we would go with RT over bigger needs. We've already had a dominant OL the past 3 years and we've failed every time because of weaknesses in other areas.

 

[noshame]

Trade up for an OLman? No thanks. We already have two big-money OLmen with at least one more on the way. You can only devote so many resources to one positional group. Unless a can't miss RT falls to us, I don't see how we would go with RT over bigger needs. We've already had a dominant OL the past 3 years and we've failed every time because of weaknesses in other areas.

How does spending one draft pick on a second round tackle preclude you from spending a ton of picks and resources on your defense

 

[RandyOh]

Trade up for an OLman? No thanks. We already have two big-money OLmen with at least one more on the way. You can only devote so many resources to one positional group. Unless a can't miss RT falls to us, I don't see how we would go with RT over bigger needs. We've already had a dominant OL the past 3 years and we've failed every time because of weaknesses in other areas.

Agreed. If one falls to us then great. Not trading up early for one. Especially in a draft that is deep in defensive playmakers and short on quality OT'S.

 

[TNCowboy]

Spending resources on the OL makes absolutely no sense unless you're getting great value.

If Martin, Smith, and Frederick are the best paid at their position or close to it, and we still have to put elite talent in the midst of them in order for them to be successful, then our big 3 OL aren't worth their salaries. Building an OL with 5 highly paid players is an impossibility with the salary cap. You have 3 superstar Olinemen and pay them like it, then you'd better be able to plug in Doug Free types at the other 2 spots and be successful.

I can't think of a worse idea for the draft and free agency than spending significant $$ or a high draft pick on the o-line.

 

[Eddie]

As crazy as it sounds, it might be Martin at RT someday.

I think that's the proper approach. He's like a Larry Allen ... Pro Bowl at OG and OT. If he's going to break the bank, then put him at a premium position.

We can find another Leary/Collins in the draft.

 

[dogunwo]

The guy can play right tackle is already on the roster, he just hasn't been healthy consistently.

 

[Rogerthat12]

I put this right with your take of his college ability.

They gave him a week there and decided to give him a shot at guard as a rookie. The stuff about footwork and technique is just more garbage you made up.

Brugler did not say that. Brugler said that he could play either. Shall we revisit the actual quotes again? This time you should try being intellectually honest and posting everything he wrote on the matter and not just what you want to read.

I have stated point blank that Brugler projected Collins as a swing tackle on the next level but that he is probably better suited as a G in the NFL due to his strengths and his limitations.

Collins has NEVER played RT in college or in the NFL (save OTA'S) and played LT/OG throughout his college career.

When he played RT in OTA's he was terrible, his footwork and technique were horrid and he was quickly moved inside at LG where he excelled and has been there ever since, those are the plain facts.

Collins himself said he struggled on the Right side!

Apparently you have not read or most likely have decided to not read what Dane Brugler said about Collins pre-draft in his annual draft guide comprehensively.

You will learn that I have not "made up" anything and rather you have failed to read everything in context Dane said about Collins and his ultimate conclusion and summary in terms of projection.

Below is his is entire analysis from his 2015 draft guide, everything in it is his own interpretation of the player and if you can not handle this fact, just like you could not handle the fact he said Spence was a better pure speed edge rusher than Bosa (but not the better player overall), then your denial is rooted in your need for your opinion to be correct, rather than to be truthful.

3. LA’EL COLLINS | LSU 6044|305 lbs|4SR Baton Rouge, La. (Redemptorist HS) 7/26/1993 (age 21) #70 2011: (7/0) GRADE 1st Round 2012: (13/13) LG MEASUREABLES Arm: 33 1/4 | Hand: 10 3/8 | Wingspan: 82 2013: (12/12) LT COMBINE 40-YD: 5.12 | 10-YD: 1.87 | 20-YD: 3.04 | BP: 21 | VJ: 27 | BJ: 09’00” | SS: 4.63 | 3C: 7.70 2014: (13/13) LT PRO DAY N/A (positional drills only) Total (45/38) 25 LT, 13 LG PRONUNCIATION Lah-ell

BACKGROUND:

A five-star offensive line recruit out of high school, Collins was wooed by a number of national programs, but there was very little question where he would play his college ball, committing to hometown LSU prior to his junior season. He saw action in seven games as a true freshman back-up before earning the starting left guard job as a sophomore, starting all 13 games in 2012. Collins kicked out to left tackle in 2013 as a junior and started 12 games (missed one due to injury), earning Second Team All-SEC honors. He started all 13 games as a senior and won the 2014 Jacobs Blocking Trophy as the top offensive lineman in the SEC, earning First Team All-SEC and some All-American honors. Collins played in the 2015 Senior Bowl.

STRENGTHS:

Well-proportioned frame with solid upper and lower body thickness…large hands and adequate length…squares his shoulders and plays with a strong base and natural anchor, making him tough to move or bully – doesn’t play on his heels…strong at the point of attack to sustain with grip strength and stout wrists, jolting and redirecting defenders…physical mentality and not shy using his brute power to be a people mover with his aggressive punch…functional mobility to be effective blocking in motion and at the second level…displays coordination on combination blocks, making contact on initial target before disengaging to pick up another defender…dependable finisher once he gets his hands on defenders as a run blocker, playing with a mean streak and consistent intensity…sells out each snap and plays with a chip on his shoulder, taking each play personally with the will to defeat his opponent…vocal team leader and not afraid to call out his teammates and hold them accountable – durable and led LSU in snaps in 2014…three-year starter in the SEC (38 career starts) with playing time at both tackle and guard.

WEAKNESSES:

Constantly lunges and leans with his upper half and falls off blocks, struggling to maintain his technique through contact…ends up on the ground too much with chaotic mechanics, starting with his base…average-at-best snap quickness and doesn’t consistently explode out of his stance to cut off speed on the edges – too often the last lineman to move off the ball…tends to labor in his kickslide with shuffle footwork that is more choppy than fluid…inconsistent footwork once engaged and relies on his upper body to get the job done…will struggle at times to decipher blitzes and tends to get mixed up with multiple rushers – needs to improve his focus and awareness…too grabby and lack of elite length shows at times as long-armed rushers get into his frame and knock him off-balance…allows his pads to rise and doesn’t rely on leverage…needs to improve his angles in the run game to better wall off lanes.

SUMMARY:

A wrecking ball in the run game, Collins isn’t always the most controlled, but he sells out to eliminate bodies in his path that are wearing the other color jersey. He needs to show better bend and consistency in pass protection, too often falling off balance with limited range in his kickslide, but there is no question about his 100% effort and mean streak. The bottom line with Collins is that it doesn’t always look pretty, but he consistently gets the job done, selling out each snap with the upper body strength to get away with some of his miscues. He has enough talent to survive on the edges, projecting as a starting swing tackle at the next level, but might be ideally-suited inside at offensive guard – top-25 talent and long-term NFL starter.

In the summary, we get the need for better bend and need for consistency in pass protection, too often falling off balance with LIMITED RANGE IN HIS KICKSLIDE (garbage that) above in weaknesses speaks of choppy and inconsistent footwork, trouble deciphering blitzes and gets mixed up with multiple rushers.

Further, he says he is "too grabby and lack of elite length shows at times as long-armed rushers get into his frame and knock him off-balance", there is the lack of Elite arm length.

In conclusion: He said he has enough talent to "survive" on the edges, projecting as a starting "swing tackle" but "might be ideally-suited inside at offensive guard".

The Cowboys started him at RT due in part to the Doug Free injury and as Garrett put it himself, to provide him with an easy transition.

He failed miserably at RT regardless and was moved inside to G and has never left the position because it is his perfect fit in the NFL given his strengths and weaknesses stated clearly above by Brugler in their fullness.

You really need to avoid the "attacking the man" logical fallacy, it is your modus operandi when someone challenges your opinions and reeks of not only poor logic but also frustrates any argument you propose.

Further, if Dane Brugler or any other analyst says something on video and/or print about a player and their weaknesses then it is their comment and perspective alone. If you agree with their perspective on a player you can easily support the validation of an argument as such while holding your own perspective.

To argue people can not critically think because they support their argument with expert analysis or that they are intellectually dishonest because they agree with a differing conclusion than you after looking at both the strengths and weaknesses of a player, then there is clearly a fundamental misunderstanding of basic argumentation on your part.

I understand and have read all of Brugler's comments above about both Collins strengths and weaknesses and agree completely with his summary conclusion that he " might be ideally-suited inside at offensive guard" for I have seen Collins play LG successfully in the NFL but not Right Tackle and when he tried, he failed regardless of short sample size or not.

He uses the language of "ideally-suited" at G because he talks about his limitations in arm length, limited kickslide range and footwork issues along with struggling with blitzes and multiple defenders. His strengths are better suited inside where these limitations are mitigated and where his strengths flourish.

You play players where they are the best fit and can excel, not where they can just "survive"!

 

[RandyOh]

Sure he can play RT. I don't think he will be as dominant at RT as he would at LG. It's a Question you have to ask yourself. Would you rather have another pro bowl Guard or an above average at best RT? His technique is not great and he gets by on his great athleticism. Posters on here was complaining about his Pass protection at guard where it's much easier to hide players with lack of pass protection ability (between arguably the best LT and Center at that). How quickly are yall gonna turn on him at RT when teams swith their top edge rusher onto the strong side and he allows a sack and a few QB hits each game?

 

[Rogerthat12]

Sure he can play RT. I don't think he will be as dominant at RT as he would at LG. It's a Question you have to ask yourself. Would you rather have another pro bowl Guard or an above average at best RT? His technique is not great and he gets by on his great athleticism. Posters on here was complaining about his Pass protection at guard where it's much easier to hide players with lack of pass protection ability (between arguably the best LT and Center at that). How quickly are yall gonna turn on him at RT when teams swith their top edge rusher onto the strong side and he allows a sack and a few QB hits each game?

Yes, the question is less about can he play or "survive" at RT but rather which position is he better suited for and provides him with the best chance for success as a player given his strengths and weaknesses, obviously it is LG.

 

[Parche]

I know its a bit off topic (but not entirely) so Im going to ask it anyway:

For us that are still learning the details of the game, which are the things and differences you find between playing tackle and guard? I know there are too many, but which ones would be the lets say, five things and differences between those two positions?

 

[RandyOh]

Yes, the question is less about can he play or "survive" at RT but rather which position is he better suited for and provides him with the best chance for success as a player given his strengths and weaknesses, obviously it is LG.

It not just gives him a better chance of success in the NFL but which is more likely to help the team. Someone dominating at guard or someone just good enough to beat out our other options currently on the team. Between Free, Green, Cleary, and possibly another OT taken in the draft, we will have enough to patch up RT for a year. Now thats of course a OT doesn't fall into our laps early in this years draft. But some teams have to patch their entire O line with Doug Frees and Emmit Clearys. I honestly think 2018 draft would be the perfect time to invest a premium pick on a OT if don't do that this year. Its a much deeper OT class then this years.

 

[Rogerthat12]

It not just gives him a better chance of success in the NFL but which is more likely to help the team. Someone dominating at guard or someone just good enough to beat out our other options currently on the team. Between Free, Green, Cleary, and possibly another OT taken in the draft, we will have enough to patch up RT for a year. Now thats of course a OT doesn't fall into our laps early in this years draft. But some teams have to patch their entire O line with Doug Frees and Emmit Clearys. I honestly think 2018 draft would be the perfect time to invest a premium pick on a OT if don't do that this year. Its a much deeper OT class then this years.

I think giving Collins the best chance for success is more likely to help the team.