Can La'el Collins play RT?

xwalker

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The problem with your comment is "Regardless of whether he is better at OG or not relative to RT is not the point.", that is my only point.

I think Brugler is one of the best evaluator's in the business and Pauline even agrees with this fact, other draft reports bring up these similar issues as well in his weaknesses.

Leary is probably gone in FA and the rest is simply conjecture that you have no evidence or basis of which to argue other than projection conjecture.

The fact that Collins was moved to G by the Cowboys staff within two weeks at RT and that he has flourished at G ever since really answers the question.

He was also rotating at G in between RT duties and obviously they were evaluating what he was better at accordingly.

I would rather draft a RT that is ideally-suited to play RT rather than move an ideally-suited G because I do not like Doug Free.
What you want to do is meaningless.

If Collins can play RT better than Free AND they could re-sign Leary to a reasonable contract, then they have to consider that option. Signing a RT to replace Free would likely be a lot more expensive than re-signing Leary. There probably isn't a RT available in FA the quality of Leary at OG.

There is really no point continuing to discuss this. I've already said that it is unlikely to happen because Garrett will convince them that Free is OK. It won't be the first time they've kept Free over better options.
 

GhostOfPelluer

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You can do what you like. You have not supported your claim and have admitted to my rebuttal. An assertion without basis is to be disregarded is my method.

And yes I know you like to cherry pick scouting reports that you think agree with you. Your issue is that it is not mutually exclusive with my argument that his issue is focus and technique and not ability.

Then of course there is the game footage I provided to support my claim which I have tried to rejoin several times. Neither of you have any interest in that.
You can provide footage of a play here or there and that wouldn't disprove my assessment. If you even read it. I've said all along the "slow feet" wasn't necessarily a measure of his athletic ability but something that wasn't natural for the player, which would effect his consistency. You even admitted he could be a mess at times.
 

CCBoy

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You can provide footage of a play here or there and that wouldn't disprove my assessment. If you even read it. I've said all along the "slow feet" wasn't necessarily a measure of his athletic ability but something that wasn't natural for the player, which would effect his consistency. You even admitted he could be a mess at times.
Ever taken to answering a question beyond just inventing another hypothetical in return?
 

BigStar

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As crazy as it sounds, it might be Martin at RT someday.
Late to thread, but that's spot on. I was thinkin Martin is nearing that Allen level of greatness (jumping the gun a little bit admittedly), but he's shown he has the agility and strength (not Allen's, he had body builder strength) to hold his own probably anywhere on the OL. Obv we have a franchise talent in Smith that's not moving anywhere but Martin is the guy I would give an extensive look at before Collins. We know he is an all pro G and doubt it would hurt his ego if he didn't check out as a formidable RT and had to revert back to his original position. His price tag would go up considerably though as a T, so not sure if that's a catch 22 situation w/the cap tbh? Either way, move on from Free this offseason if at all possible.
 
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GhostOfPelluer

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Ha, the insight of a rambler...carry on. :facepalm:

Or invest in a real degree or box tops enough for a decoder ring...:popcorn:

Care for an argument? Just start her up...
Ok.... not sure where this is coming from but more power to you
 

CCBoy

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Ok.... not sure where this is coming from but more power to you

And for the half-time show...

Man-Scratching-His-Head.jpg


Sonny and Cher's: 'I got you, Babe...'
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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You can provide footage of a play here or there and that wouldn't disprove my assessment. If you even read it. I've said all along the "slow feet" wasn't necessarily a measure of his athletic ability but something that wasn't natural for the player, which would effect his consistency. You even admitted he could be a mess at times.

I posted entire games. You have done nothing but assert and dissemble.

You've also not said that all along.
 

RamziD

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What would you all think about drafting Dan Feeney (OG, Indiana) at #28 and moving Martin to RT? Could be a long-term solution to our OL.
 

GhostOfPelluer

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I posted entire games. You have done nothing but assert and dissemble.

You've also not said that all along.
"It's probably not a matter of physical ability, but it also isn't natural for him."
That was a direct quote about his feet from my post when I got involved in this discussion. I also said he might be a serviceable OT but that it wouldn't be taking advantage of the guy's strengths.

But tell me again what I didn't say.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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"It's probably not a matter of physical ability, but it also isn't natural for him."
That was a direct quote about his feet from my post when I got involved in this discussion. I also said he might be a serviceable OT but that it wouldn't be taking advantage of the guy's strengths.

But tell me again what I didn't say.

I didn't say you didn't say that. I said that you did not always say that. Nuance is tough I know. :rolleyes:

You've been equivocating about his natural ability the entire time. That is about all that you have said. That and speaking in behest of others you have no business doing so.
 

GhostOfPelluer

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I didn't say you didn't say that. I said that you did not always say that. Nuance is tough I know. :rolleyes:

You've been equivocating about his natural ability the entire time. That is about all that you have said. That and speaking in behest of others you have no business doing so.
Maybe if I put it in my avatar that will be saying it enough for you.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Maybe if I put it in my avatar that will be saying it enough for you.

Then you can make your sig your dissembling. You have said he is not naturally quick and predicted he would struggle with it for his whole career too. You are all over the place. It is what it is.
 

Rogerthat12

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You can claim what you like. Sophistry is not ignorance. It is what it is. Sophocles was the head of a group of jurists and teachers in 5th century BC Athens. They would advocate and teach for a fee and then argue for a conclusion much like modern day lawyers to settle disputes. Plato and Aristotle both believed in truth in and of itself. That was part of where their whole thing about forms and categories derived from.

They reviled the Sophists for lack of ethics in particular a disregard for the truth. I agree with them. It has nothing to do with ignorance and everything to do with their behavior and methods. Sophists are not inherently wrong either but the method will not necessarily lead to the truth and lends to inequity.

Perhaps you should review your old coursework if you are not just lying to prop yourself up.

My argument is based on logic. Again his footwork is inconsistent because of technique issues not because of ability. It explains the disparate reports on it. You know very well that there are reports that support that plus I linked game footage that showed it too. I don't mindlessly let Dane Brugler think for me. That is you.

Further the burden of proof has been on you to support your claim for the basis of the Cowboy's coach's decision which you have claimed to know. You failed. An assertion without basis is to be disregarded. That is simple skepticism. If you want to believe something without proof or basis then have at it but it is unscientific amongst other issues.

And speak for yourself I have stated explicitly my argument about Collins several times. He has the physical traits and abilities but needs to work on his technique. I have no idea where he is in all that but I would not be against the coaches working towards it if they decided.

I am not the one that feigns certainty where there is none and I am comfortable with uncertainty. You should try it.

And finally as for Spence/Bosa, we both know that you were not just claiming that Brugler said that. You picked up what you thought Broaddus and he were selling too. It would be consistent with what you are doing here.

Brugler said all kinds of things and had Bosa in his top 2 or 3 the whole time leading up to the draft. He would equivocate a lot but if you think the difference between his #3 prospect and his #15 prospect was run stopping in today's NFL I think youre delusional. That is not even the point though.

The point is not whether or not I would admit such and such. Well maybe it is to you but you are blinded by your ego and getting some meaningless point of fact right. The point is that last year proved that Bosa was the superior player as a pass rusher or any other metric. Broaddus and Brugler if he indeed thought that were wrong.

Broaddus has no issue admitting it and Brugler claims that Bosa was his guy now. You should try honoring the truth.

Yawn, same old denial and poor logic.

Put simply, you have an argument based upon a a false premise, an invalid argument grounded in ignorance with a false conclusion that can not be proven to be true in the real world, that is sophistry.

You are wrong about Collins struggling with just technique Brugler mentions limited kickslide range, lack of elite arm length, choppy footwork, and the mental factors of recongnition of blitz pick up and struggling with multiple blitzers that would cause any player playing Right Tackle to struggle with protection, duh!

I have looked at all of Collins game tape and he had the same issues that Dane, Jeremiah and Pauline indicated that is why he is ideally suited to be kicked inside to G.

The Cowboys figured this out quick and he has played G ever since, that is the reality, you are literally arguing for something that is simply projection conjecture based upon your opinion which is wrong looking at the game tape and full body of work.

You are offering an argument and putting forth a premise and conclusion so you do owe a burden of proof which you can not give because your premise is false, argument invalid and conclusion is false an unprovable.

My argument is verified by the fact that Collins has been playing LG for the Cowboys exclusively for two years, was tried at RT and moved within two weeks.

Further, he has flourished at the position due to his strengths and by mitigating his weaknesses.

You have no idea what Collins would be at RT other than wish projection, you have no way to prove your conclusion as well, so this is literally just your misinformed opinion as usual.

Dane looks at all the tape as well and goes to the games and bowl games to evaluate while you sit at home in your snuggy and pontificate about things you know not of accordingly, it is obvious.

Last, the argument was literally about what Brugler said, that Spence was the best pur pass rusher in the draft off the edge, using words like speed or whatever does not change that he meant getting to the QB off the edge.

Because you were on Bosa's jock, oddly enough someone who Brugler likes and admits is the better overall player, you could not fathom how he could say Spence was the better pure pass rusher and he did numerous times on video, like you always do, you denied it, tried to play word semantics.

We are done on the subject because we are never going to agree, it is simply a waste of time.
 

Rogerthat12

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You haven't proven squash beyond conjecture...and ring tapping. You deny elements presented in argument by Fuzzy, and present no real logic beyond agenda. Philosophy? No, bias...

Fuzzy presents topical consideration which is ignored by yourself. Agenda? Not philosophy, which has merit and stated...not a witch hunt and insult.

This is a load of crap, nothing more.

His entire argument is based upon ignorance and conjecture, Collins has never played RT in the NFL other than OTA's and was moved to LG permanently, duh!
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Yawn, same old denial and poor logic.

Put simply, you have an argument based upon a a false premise, an invalid argument grounded in ignorance with a false conclusion that can not be proven to be true in the real world, that is sophistry.

You are wrong about Collins struggling with just technique Brugler mentions limited kickslide range, lack of elite arm length, choppy footwork, and the mental factors of recongnition of blitz pick up and struggling with multiple blitzers that would cause any player playing Right Tackle to struggle with protection, duh!

I have looked at all of Collins game tape and he had the same issues that Dane, Jeremiah and Pauline indicated that is why he is ideally suited to be kicked inside to G.

The Cowboys figured this out quick and he has played G ever since, that is the reality, you are literally arguing for something that is simply projection conjecture based upon your opinion which is wrong looking at the game tape and full body of work.

You are offering an argument and putting forth a premise and conclusion so you do owe a burden of proof which you can not give because your premise is false, argument invalid and conclusion is false an unprovable.

My argument is verified by the fact that Collins has been playing LG for the Cowboys exclusively for two years, was tried at RT and moved within two weeks.

Further, he has flourished at the position due to his strengths and by mitigating his weaknesses.

You have no idea what Collins would be at RT other than wish projection, you have no way to prove your conclusion as well, so this is literally just your misinformed opinion as usual.

Dane looks at all the tape as well and goes to the games and bowl games to evaluate while you sit at home in your snuggy and pontificate about things you know not of accordingly, it is obvious.

Last, the argument was literally about what Brugler said, that Spence was the best pur pass rusher in the draft off the edge, using words like speed or whatever does not change that he meant getting to the QB off the edge.

Because you were on Bosa's jock, oddly enough someone who Brugler likes and admits is the better overall player, you could not fathom how he could say Spence was the better pure pass rusher and he did numerous times on video, like you always do, you denied it, tried to play word semantics.

We are done on the subject because we are never going to agree, it is simply a waste of time.

I've already quoted Brugler pointing out his initial quickness in pass pro. That would be a dropstep. None of those things you named are mutually exclusive with poor technique in fact they are related.

For someone claiming to have a PhD in philosophy from Duke you lack even the barest ability to make a deduction.

Again you have no idea why the Cowboys chose to do what they did. You sure like to wishcast. Claiming that my arguing that is conjecture is rich in vitamin I. You have nothing but baseless conjecture to support your claim of the Cowboys rationale. You basically insert what you think like a megalomaniac.

Brugler said that he was the best speed rusher. As I pointed out to you there is more than just speed rushing. There are also speed to power and power moves. If you or Brugler thought that he was better than Bosa at those then you were and still remain wrong. That bears out in Bosa missing all of camp and playing a third less of the season and still doubling Spence's sack total.

You are right that I have a ton of respect for Bosa. He is the talented and pro ready 4-3 DE to come out in the past 20 years.
 

Rogerthat12

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What you want to do is meaningless.

If Collins can play RT better than Free AND they could re-sign Leary to a reasonable contract, then they have to consider that option. Signing a RT to replace Free would likely be a lot more expensive than re-signing Leary. There probably isn't a RT available in FA the quality of Leary at OG.

There is really no point continuing to discuss this. I've already said that it is unlikely to happen because Garrett will convince them that Free is OK. It won't be the first time they've kept Free over better options.

We can agree to disagree!

I do appreciate you not resorting to name calling and odd posting like some do on here just because we disagree on the subject because I know you are not that kind of guy.

I have no issue with drafting a player ideally suited to playing RT in the NFL, Leary will be gone most likely and the Cowboys could add RT depth in free agency as well.

I am keeping Collins at G where he fits best and finding an answer in house (Green if he can stay healthy) or through the draft and free agency to add to depth and options.

They will probably keep Free at a reduced rate there at RT anyway but depth and competition could change that if another player really stands out in camp and perhaps overtakes him during the season, we will not know until we get to that point if at all.
 
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