Can We Discuss The Job Jason Has Done With This Team

[jobberone]

he sucks whether or not we stumble into the playoffs

Who sucks? If Garrett please state the reasons. I won't jump off the fence until after the last two games go well which I expect. Much more pros than cons at this time. I'll await your answer before further retort.

 

[65fastback2plus2]

Who sucks? If Garrett please state the reasons. I won't jump off the fence until after the last two games go well which I expect. Much more pros than cons at this time. I'll await your answer before further retort.

I dont believe he is the cause for our success this year.

I dont like his coaching. I dont like his game management.

He's responsible for YEARS of mediocrity now.

Even a blind squirrel stumbles on a nut sometimes. I believe this should be more accredited to:

a) older players wanting to win and fighting harder
b) younger players who want to get paid and playing harder

 

[BigStar]

I think you hit on the main point of contention with Garrett...............OJT....................a large segment of the fanbase believed that you don't train a head coach on the job, you hire a head coach who is ready to hit the ground running day one.

Like you just said, Garrett was learning how to be a head coach while playing actual games and he messed up and made mistakes, I don't think anybody can sit here today and say Garrett did not make some crucial game management mistakes that directly contributed to loses.

Both Jerry and Stephen have even alluded to that saying that the "growing pains" with Garrett and the "mistakes" he made is a significant reason they do not want to get rid of him. They don't want another team to get the benefit of the mistakes Garrett learned from.

So yes, 4 years into Garrett's training its finally starting to pay off, but the fact still remains that the mistakes he made first starting out contributed to losses and when we have missed the playoffs by one game for three consecutive years, Garrett shoulders a lot of the blame for that just like he should be praised for a successful season this year.

Not to mention a Romo that is three years older with his health further declining...

 

[BoysFan4ever]

I think the staff has done a nice job this season. This is the first year since he's been the head guy that I believe that. I guess his training is paying off.

 

[Idgit]

"Jason Garrett was qualified for the job when they hired him". I think we need to back the truck up right here. Garrett may just becoming qualified now - maybe - but not then (even if Stephen says it). Garrett had done nothing but be a QB coach in Miami - and I think that was only for 2 years. Garrett's only qualification was that Jerry was comfortable with him. Period. And other than his first year, his run as an Offensive Coordinator was not that great either. As others have pointed out, he made mistakes that cost us games - and those games cost us trips to the playoffs. Just like this years loss to Washington might cost us the playoffs - that game was a coaching debacle; particularly the complete failure to handle the blitz - which should be covered in coaching 101. Garrett has been learning on the job because he didn't have the experience or ability when they hired him. I do like some of the things he has done - like focusing on the offensive line, cutting down penalties, making players compete. But when you need a coach for the Dallas Cowboys, you don't go to the minor leagues and give the job to an apprentice. Garrett does some good leadership things but he is still a work in progress. However there were - and are - better coaches than he is now. And if we had had any of those coaches we would probably have made the playoffs during a few of those 3 years.

Disagree. He was qualified the day they hired him, which is why you saw other teams offering him jobs, or interested in him for their jobs, as well. Everybody who's ever coached was a rookie head coach at one point, and all of them had things to learn when they got that first job. No exceptions.

You'll have to elaborate on what you didn't like about him as an OC.

As for the mistakes that cost us games, he definitely made mistakes that contributed to losses. But that's something you can say again about any coach whose team loses. There were a couple games where he made bigger mistakes than others, but you don't get a team in position to win a division without doing some things right in the first place. I've said many times, for each of the last three seasons, while you can point to specific criticisms that may or may not be fair criticisms of Garrett's coaching, there are bigger, more obvious reasons why the team lost some of those games. In 2011, it was turnover differential. In 2012 and 2013, it's been mostly the pass defense that has hurt us, and that mostly because we lack personnel on defense. Right now, it's that same pass rush limitation that's keeping us from being one of the truly elite teams in the NFC.

Finally, if fans are going to point to games like the WAS game and say that those are games we're losing because of coaching, then I'm of the opinion there is no solution to the problem. No matter what product is put on the field, people are going to either have unrealistic expectations or they're going to attribute losses to coaching that are more reasonably attributed to something else, and we as fans are just going to have to live with a certain amount of misplaced expectation.

Meanwhile, I hope we extend the guy and address the pass rush finally in the offseason.

 

[gmoney112]

Finally, if fans are going to point to games like the WAS game and say that those are games we're losing because of coaching, then I'm of the opinion there is no solution to the problem. No matter what product is put on the field, people are going to either have unrealistic expectations or they're going to attribute losses to coaching that are more reasonably attributed to something else, and we as fans are just going to have to live with a certain amount of misplaced expectation.

Meanwhile, I hope we extend the guy and address the pass rush finally in the offseason.

Stop copying me!

 

[Idgit]

Stop copying me!

Lol. I just read that page of this thread that I skipped, and was going to post an 'I guess I should have just read your post first' post.

Imitation is flattery, though, so you should take it as a nice compliment.

 

[Stryker44]

Serious question - how was Garrett able to maintain respect and control of the locker room after his playcalling duties were taken away from him after last season?

 

[Doomsday101]

Serious question - how was Garrett able to maintain respect and control of the locker room after his playcalling duties were taken away from him after last season?

Garrett took the playcalling back from Callahan last season and went out and got his former coaching mate in Linehan someone he trusted to run the offense as he wanted

 

[Stryker44]

Garrett took the playcalling back from Callahan last season and went out and got his former coaching mate in Linehan someone he trusted to run the offense as he wanted

Gotcha. Gotta admit - I thought the Dallas would be 5-11 or 6-10 this year and it would be Garrett's last after the 3 straight 8-8 seasons.

I've noticed though it seems during his tenure the team has never gone on a major losing streak and always seems to respond with a win after a loss much more often than not. So that says something.

 

[Doomsday101]

Gotcha. Gotta admit - I thought the Dallas would be 5-11 or 6-10 this year and it would be Garrett's last after the 3 straight 8-8 seasons.

I've noticed though it seems during his tenure the team has never gone on a major losing streak and always seems to respond with a win after a loss much more often than not. So that says something.

Listen to the players and Garrett the message is constantly the same.

 

[Idgit]

Serious question - how was Garrett able to maintain respect and control of the locker room after his playcalling duties were taken away from him after last season?

Easy answer is we'll never know. If I were to guess, I'd say that it's probably really apparent from meetings and the actual team interactions that Garrett's really the guy in charge of the team. So, if the QB and offensive veterans fall in line, it's not tough to sell the changes as freeing the head coach up to give more attention elsewhere to the team. It might be a bit of an embarrassing circumstance for him the way it's portrayed, but if the team generally respects you and thinks you know what you're doing and that you have a clear direction they ought to give you the benefit of the doubt. It's not uncommon for a HC not to call plays in his area of expertise. There's so much that goes into running an NFL team, and the end of the day, you just want guys in the positions to do what they're best at. If you can get a better play caller in there for game days, free up the HC, and improve the team, that's a win.

Now, if the HC had a reputation as a bumbler, say, the way Dave Campo did, that's something players are likely to take a lot more to heart. But I'd say most available evidence suggest the players really do think Jason knows what he's doing when it comes to putting together and leading the team.

 

[Sportsbabe]

This is what happens after a win like that.

People over reach to praise.

ll
It's really not an over reach after one game.
Just thinking of it analytically and less superficially could see this has been a 3 year process (with more to come) ... but I guess that's a little too in-depth of a process for some of us to endeavor.

 

[Sportsbabe]

Easy answer is we'll never know. If I were to guess, I'd say that it's probably really apparent from meetings and the actual team interactions that Garrett's really the guy in charge of the team. So, if the QB and offensive veterans fall in line, it's not tough to sell the changes as freeing the head coach up to give more attention elsewhere to the team. It might be a bit of an embarrassing circumstance for him the way it's portrayed, but if the team generally respects you and thinks you know what you're doing and that you have a clear direction they ought to give you the benefit of the doubt. It's not uncommon for a HC not to call plays in his area of expertise. There's so much that goes into running an NFL team, and the end of the day, you just want guys in the positions to do what they're best at. If you can get a better play caller in there for game days, free up the HC, and improve the team, that's a win.

Now, if the HC had a reputation as a bumbler, say, the way Dave Campo did, that's something players are likely to take a lot more to heart. But I'd say most available evidence suggest the players really do think Jason knows what he's doing when it comes to putting together and leading the team.

...and maybe we on the outside looking in saw it as his play calling duties being stripped, while those on the inside could see it as him having more oversight over the entire operation. 95% of the time, in all situations, the point of view is always the negative.

 

[Fletch]

"Jason Garrett was qualified for the job when they hired him". I think we need to back the truck up right here. Garrett may just becoming qualified now - maybe - but not then (even if Stephen says it). Garrett had done nothing but be a QB coach in Miami - and I think that was only for 2 years. Garrett's only qualification was that Jerry was comfortable with him. Period. And other than his first year, his run as an Offensive Coordinator was not that great either. As others have pointed out, he made mistakes that cost us games - and those games cost us trips to the playoffs. Just like this years loss to Washington might cost us the playoffs - that game was a coaching debacle; particularly the complete failure to handle the blitz - which should be covered in coaching 101. Garrett has been learning on the job because he didn't have the experience or ability when they hired him. I do like some of the things he has done - like focusing on the offensive line, cutting down penalties, making players compete. But when you need a coach for the Dallas Cowboys, you don't go to the minor leagues and give the job to an apprentice. Garrett does some good leadership things but he is still a work in progress. However there were - and are - better coaches than he is now. And if we had had any of those coaches we would probably have made the playoffs during a few of those 3 years.

So you end your oped with "probably". A speculative reach at best.

 

[Sportsbabe]

This was pretty cool, for any of you who haven't seen it yet:

http://www.dallascowboys.com/video/2014/12/15/coach-garretts-locker-room-speech-after-win-philly

I loved the brotherhood mentality I got from the video. How they had those chants. Calling each others names. Letting out those yells and hollering back. I watched it over and over.

 

[Sportsbabe]

I think you hit on the main point of contention with Garrett...............OJT....................a large segment of the fanbase believed that you don't train a head coach on the job, you hire a head coach who is ready to hit the ground running day one.

Like you just said, Garrett was learning how to be a head coach while playing actual games and he messed up and made mistakes, I don't think anybody can sit here today and say Garrett did not make some crucial game management mistakes that directly contributed to loses.

Both Jerry and Stephen have even alluded to that saying that the "growing pains" with Garrett and the "mistakes" he made is a significant reason they do not want to get rid of him. They don't want another team to get the benefit of the mistakes Garrett learned from.

So yes, 4 years into Garrett's training its finally starting to pay off, but the fact still remains that the mistakes he made first starting out contributed to losses and when we have missed the playoffs by one game for three consecutive years, Garrett shoulders a lot of the blame for that just like he should be praised for a successful season this year.

There are a lot of seasoned, re-treds, SB winning, you name them what you want successful coaches in this league who haven't taken their teams to 3 straight years from being one game away from the playoffs, Yes, its not good.... but if you tie all the circumstances together, I consider it unfortunate.

Until Jason has almost everything SB winning teams consist of (now it's a respectable D), he still gets his opportunities to get the job done.

 

[Sportsbabe]

Yep. Its remarkable. None of this could be expected from any other NFL HC's.

It's called discipline which a lot of teams don't have. You can best believe, you would not have recognized those plays if they weren't pointed out to you. And after they were pointed out to you, if the opposite would have happened (they didn't recover the ball and should have, or Philly threw it to that uncovered guy) there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth that Jason didn't have he team prepared.

It's not hard to figure out.

 

[Hostile]

Gotcha. Gotta admit - I thought the Dallas would be 5-11 or 6-10 this year and it would be Garrett's last after the 3 straight 8-8 seasons.

I've noticed though it seems during his tenure the team has never gone on a major losing streak and always seems to respond with a win after a loss much more often than not. So that says something.

You weren't alone. Most people had this team somewhere between 3-13 and 8-8 after Hatcher and Ware left.

I've said all along I like what I see being built here. I kind of expected some of this. Note, I said some. Certainly not all, but I am still not satisfied. I want more. A lot more.

 

[Sportsbabe]

Not just with the team, but with the cap.

I don't believe that Jerry & Co. all of a sudden changed their stripes as soon as Jason was hired. The cap was a total disaster, and this offseason we can re-sign Dez and still add some real talent for the first time in years thanks to some cheap offseasons in the recent past.

I've read stories of Jason attending the "analytics" conferences, which basically applies the Moneyball approach to football. That's pretty cool. I really believe his approach the last few offseasons, in an effort to save our cap, was an analytical-type maneuver to upgrade production/reduce impact of older salary cap heavy vets, at the lowest possible expense and who could play in our scheme. Example, Mincey signing with departure of Ware. I don't think anyone really wants Mincey starting if they're trying to field a top defense, but when you have to work with scraps I'd say he's had a lot of production from his contract. He has one less sack than Ware did last season at 1/6 the cost. He's never going to be mistaken for a HoF but as a stopgap, he's serving his purpose pretty well. I also really liked the Durant signing too.

It's just funny to me the people that will hate on Jason while at the same time say Chip Kelly is doing a fantastic job in Philly. "Chip Kelly is legit", and then when asked about Jason, "he needs to be fired." Haha, okay.

It's also fairly apparent some here wouldn't be happy with a Landy/Johnson/Belichek mutated ******* child as HC. There is no coach in the history of the NFL that has not lost a game they should have won, or made mistakes in playcalling/game management/etc. that cost their team a chance to win. Not one. Some point to the Commanders loss as some kind of defense that Jason is a poor coach. Games like that happen to every coach, every year. If you're expecting perfection from your coach you're going to be incredibly disappointed in anyone that leads the team because they're all human, not one is perfect and there won't ever be one that is. I guess some would rather be nonsensical than admit they may have been incorrect, which I don't really care, but they're going to miss out on enjoying a season where we're playing some damn good football. Their loss.

38 Likes (as in 38-27).
All I'm trying to do is enjoy this success we're having thus far by looking at it from that point of view.
I have no idea how some of these posters enjoy this success with the positions they take.
I guess they will explain it to me once they read this