Can we find a RB better than JuJones in the draft?

[joseephuss]

And Edge is only 27 years old. Plenty of tread left on the tires. It would be incredibly STUPID for the Cards to draft AP.



What?! You haven't been paying attention then, Old Man. T-Ham tripped over blades of grass and almost ALWAYS went down on first contact. Barber introduces defenders backsides to the grass.

Just cuz Barber is a backup with a high YPC doesn't mean he's the same as T-Ham. I think you chose your words unwisely on that one.

Barber deserves a shot to show what he can do as a starter.





Get over yourself, Stalker.

Edge is currently 28 and will be 29 before the season starts(born8-1-78).

 

[Rack]

Edge is currently 28 and will be 29 before the season starts(born8-1-78).

Close enough...

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The Draft is a roll of the dice. Every year Draft picks bomb. Even at RB. Here is a list of RBs taken in round 1 or 2 (I am assuming we couldn't get a 1st or 2nd for JJ) for the last 10 years who have not lived up to expectations. Note, I am not saying these players are terrible, just that they have not quite met expectations for them. I am skipping 2006 since it is too soon to determine.

2005...JJ Arrington
2004...Kevin Jones
2003...Tony Hollings
2002...William Green
2001...Michael Bennett
2000...Ron Dayne
1999...Ricky Williams
1998...Curtis Enis
1997...Antowain Smith
1996...Lawrence Phillips

Now, figure out a way to guarantee me that 2007 has no RBs that will end up on a list like that. Might there be a RB we could get who is better than Julius? Sure. It is just as likely, and maybe more so, that we can't get close to what we have in him.

And here is a list of RB in those drafts picked in the first two rounds that have been successful.

2005 Caddillac Williams, Frank Gore
2004 Steven jackson Tatun Bell
2003 Willis McGahee Larry Johnson
2002 Clinton Portis Ladell Betts
2001 Ladanian Tomlinson Lamnont Jordan Travis Henry
2000 Jamal Lewis Thomas Jones Shaun Alexander
1999 Edgerrin James


The bottomline is that the success rate for getting a high rate of return off backs in the first two rounds is very high. For every Curtis Enis there is a Jamal Lewis or Shaun Alexander

 

[joseephuss]

Close enough...

Maybe. He does have a lot of mileage on his body. Eight season has brought him 3104 total touches(rushes and receptions) including the playoffs. As a comparison, Emmitt after 8 seasons had 3303 total touches and was a year younger at the same time.

 

[joseephuss]

And here is a list of RB in those drafts picked in the first two rounds that have been successful.

2005 Caddillac Williams, Frank Gore
2004 Steven jackson Tatun Bell
2003 Willis McGahee Larry Johnson
2002 Clinton Portis Ladell Betts
2001 Ladanian Tomlinson Lamnont Jordan Travis Henry
2000 Jamal Lewis Thomas Jones Shaun Alexander
1999 Edgerrin James


The bottomline is that the success rate for getting a high rate of return off backs in the first two rounds is very high. For every Curtis Enis there is a Jamal Lewis or Shaun Alexander

You left off Julius Jones in the 2004 draft. He has more career yards than Tatum Bell and hasn't played behind as good a line or system.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

It is tough to give up on JJ.....he is a very good back......speed, doesn't fumble, works hard.....good person etc.....but, I would love a shot of Peterson with a star on his helmet

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You left off Julius Jones in the 2004 draft. He has more career yards than Tatum Bell and hasn't played behind as good a line or system.

Fine but 95% of the other guys are light years ahead of Jones.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think Jones is a good decent back, being a Cowboy fan I admit I miss having an elite back and look forward to the day we can get a guy who can come in and carry the load for the running game.

 

[Alexander]

The point is whizzing over everyone's head.

The fact is, he is in the final year of his deal and will be gone in all liklihood.

That is precisely why Buffalo traded McGahee. They realized the ceiling, didn't want to sign him to a long-term deal and got what they could. They weren't exactly counting their chickens this year and deciding they could get his replacement right now. That's why they hedged their bets with Chris Brown.

I can tell you with all certainty that we aren't prepared to ante up a contract for him right now. We are not convinced. So do we let him walk for nothing or do we get what we can right now when there is a market for runners.

But it has nothing to do with whether or not we can find a better back in this year's draft.

We might not have to. If Barber is highly thought of, the idea is to get a complementary back for him.

This is a contractual issue nearly as much as a talent issue.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Fine but 95% of the other guys are light years ahead of Jones.

Cadillac sucked this year, Jamal Lewis is on his last legs, Thomas Jones wasn't better than Julius this year, Tatum Bell :laugh1: he fustrated the Broncos, can you imagine that? a back Denver doesn't like? Willis McGahee is coming off a down year, c'mon now

 

[Rack]

Sorry but Thomas outplayed JuJo last season. Not "by far", but he did have a better season.


By the way, I like your sig. Can't wait to see what Carp and Ware can do next season.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The point is whizzing over everyone's head.

The fact is, he is in the final year of his deal and will be gone in all liklihood.

That is precisely why Buffalo traded McGahee. They realized the ceiling, didn't want to sign him to a long-term deal and got what they could. They weren't exactly counting their chickens this year and deciding they could get his replacement right now. That's why they hedged their bets with Chris Brown.

I can tell you with all certainty that we aren't prepared to ante up a contract for him right now. We are not convinced. So do we let him walk for nothing or do we get what we can right now when there is a market for runners.

But it has nothing to do with whether or not we can find a better back in this year's draft.

We might not have to. If Barber is highly thought of, the idea is to get a complementary back for him.

This is a contractual issue nearly as much as a talent issue.

now this makes more sense than, "Julius sucks, get anything for him while we can"

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Sorry but Thomas outplayed JuJo last season. Not "by far", but he did have a better season.

Thomas had more carries, same ypc average, more 1st downs, 1 less 20+ yard run, 2 more TDs

that's not light-years ahead as FuzzyBumpkins claims

By the way, I like your sig. Can't wait to see what Carp and Ware can do next season.

me too

 

[Alexander]

now this makes more sense than, "Julius sucks, get anything for him while we can"

I was going to say that, but I wanted to make that point first.

 

[Hostile]

And here is a list of RB in those drafts picked in the first two rounds that have been successful.

2005 Caddillac Williams, Frank Gore
2004 Steven jackson Tatun Bell
2003 Willis McGahee Larry Johnson
2002 Clinton Portis Ladell Betts
2001 Ladanian Tomlinson Lamnont Jordan Travis Henry
2000 Jamal Lewis Thomas Jones Shaun Alexander
1999 Edgerrin James


The bottomline is that the success rate for getting a high rate of return off backs in the first two rounds is very high. For every Curtis Enis there is a Jamal Lewis or Shaun Alexander

The ONLY problem I have with this list Fuzzy is that I don't for one minute believe we can get a 1st round or 2nd round pick for Julius Jones. So some of those names like LaDanian, simply don't fit in with the point I am trying to make. I'm in no way saying that all 1st and 2nd round Rbs fail. I'm saying we can't get one that high and even if we do there are no guarantees.

That means RBs taken in the 3rd round or later are what we would be looking at potentially.

I used those top 2 rounds to show that even they are hit and miss. Once you are past the first 2 rounds, finding a gem RB is harder. Not saying Julius is a gem, but he isn't a dud either.

Here are some 3rd round or later RBS who would fit the criteria of a "gem."

2005...Frank Gore, Marion Barber
2004...Michael Turner (iffy)
2003...honestly, no one.
2002...Brian Westbrook, Chester Taylor
2001...Rudi Johnson
2000...honestly, no one.
1999...honestly, no one.
1998...Ahman Green, Michael Pittman
1997...Duce Staley
1996...Stephen Davis

For a list of all the RBs drafted and to see if I am being unfair.

Link

That is a lot of RBs taken to have hit on so few after the 1st and 2nd rounds who are gems. This is why I think it is very risky at best to get rid of a RB who is having success with this team.

 

[Alexander]

The ONLY problem I have with this list Fuzzy is that I don't for one minute believe we can get a 1st round or 2nd round pick for Julius Jones. So some of those names like LaDanian, simply don't fit in with the point I am trying to make. I'm in no way saying that all 1st and 2nd round Rbs fail. I'm saying we can't get one that high and even if we do there are no guarantees.

That means RBs taken in the 3rd round or later are what we would be looking at potentially.

I used those top 2 rounds to show that even they are hit and miss. Once you are past the first 2 rounds, finding a gem RB is harder. Not saying Julius is a gem, but he isn't a dud either.

Here are some 3rd round or later RBS who would fit the criteria of a "gem."

2005...Frank Gore, Marion Barber
2004...Michael Turner (iffy)
2003...honestly, no one.
2002...Brian Westbrook, Chester Taylor
2001...Rudi Johnson
2000...honestly, no one.
1999...honestly, no one.
1998...Ahman Green, Michael Pittman
1997...Duce Staley
1996...Stephen Davis

For a list of all the RBs drafted and to see if I am being unfair.

Link

That is a lot of RBs taken to have hit on so few after the 1st and 2nd rounds who are gems. This is why I think it is very risky at best to get rid of a RB who is having success with this team.

And you are carrying on the point about finding a back better than Jones.

That might not be our thought process.

If we are willing to part with him, it is not at the expense of running the gambit in the draft to find his replacement.

We will be looking for Barber's running mate and that is another topic entirely.

Complementary backs can be found into the later stages of the draft.

It all depends on how we really feel about Barber. That's all there is to it.

 

[joseephuss]

And you are carrying on the point about finding a back better than Jones.

That might not be our thought process.

If we are willing to part with him, it is not at the expense of running the gambit in the draft to find his replacement.

We will be looking for Barber's running mate and that is another topic entirely.

Complementary backs can be found into the later stages of the draft.

It all depends on how we really feel about Barber. That's all there is to it.

Good points. Maybe another Notre Dame back can be a compliment to Barber and should be available on the 2nd day. Can't remember his name right now. There will be other choices in the later rounds as well.

I don't think other teams are going to throw anything higher than a 3rd at Dallas to get Julius Jones. Maybe not even that much. If that is the case, I would just keep him for this season. He has not been stellar, but has had his moments. Even if Barber ascends to the #1 role, it is good to have an experienced back up.

 

[Hostile]

And you are carrying on the point about finding a back better than Jones.

That might not be our thought process.

If we are willing to part with him, it is not at the expense of running the gambit in the draft to find his replacement.

We will be looking for Barber's running mate and that is another topic entirely.

Complementary backs can be found into the later stages of the draft.

It all depends on how we really feel about Barber. That's all there is to it.

Not better, suitable.

I am fully aware of this being the last year of his rookie deal and we could get nothing for him.

I am also aware that Jerry Jones might want to move towards Barber more.

I am also aware that the cap will go up in 2008.

I am also aware that we could transition tag Julius and get something in return.

I am also aware that if he has fewer carries in 2007 because Barber gets more use that his value on the FA market is more palatable.

There are just as many reasons not to panic and as some seem to have to hit the panic button. Tell me this, what do we do if we trade him, don't get a suitable replacement, and Barber either can't hack the load of being feature back or gets hurt as RBs sometimes do?

What then? Say oops and throw the ball 75% of the time a la the 2005 Eagles?

I'm simply saying trading him just for the sake of trading him is a risk. We have a good 1-2 punch at RB. Barber is the type of RB I love and I want to see him as the featured guy. I do not want to have no other options. By trading Julius away we might not have any.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I'm simply saying trading him just for the sake of trading him is a risk. We have a good 1-2 punch at RB. Barber is the type of RB I love and I want to see him as the featured guy. I do not want to have no other options. By trading Julius away we might not have any.

 

[burmafrd]

Without Fuzzy and the other haters, some good points have been made in the last 10 posts or so.