Collins a no go at RT?

Stash

Staff member
Messages
78,835
Reaction score
103,565
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Not a weak endorsement at all. You said his playing through injuries was a negative trait. I disagree with that point

I don't think I said it was a negative trait, I said that having to frequently play through injuries (as in repeatedly having said injuries) can be viewed as a negative.

Also, you say he doesn't have an established role. All things equal he's the starting 3T and a nickle rusher from inside. At this point he's more polished than Collins although the rookie did come on strong late in 2016 and could push him from that spot.

That's not remotely accurate or true. Collins is the obvious starter inside at 3T. And while Crawford very well might have been listed as getting the start at LDE, he was, at best a rotational guy at the position.
 

erod

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,705
Reaction score
60,327
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
I would like to trade Collins for a high pick, and re-sign Leary.
 

CF74

Vet Min Plus
Messages
26,167
Reaction score
14,623
It's not player hate, it's awful contract hate.

He's a player that will, in total, cost this team $10 million this season in salary, and various bonuses.

And as it stands today, nobody can even tell me where Crawford will start. In all of the debates and arguments I've had about him, even his most staunch and ardent defender can't answer that question.

Maliek Collins has outperformed Crawford at the 3T as a rookie, moving Crawford there, where he himself has admitted to not fitting well and getting banged U.K. too often, would be forcing things for the sake of money.

And David Irving was a more catalytic player than Crawford was at LDE, a role that Crawford played out of necessity, not design.

And we can all agree that this team's biggest need is at defensive end anyway, so where does that leave a guy like Crawford?

And you mention "played through injuries" as if it's a good thing, it's not. While I can admire and respect him 'gutting it out', the fact is that we're getting diminished level of play. And he's coming off of a second consecutive shoulder surgery, in addition to a previous Achilles surgery. The track record there doesn't instill confidence either.

To sum it up, we're looking at a rotational role player with an escalating salary who will cost this team over $7 million in salary and $10 million overall. A player without a true scheme fit in our 4-3 defense, not big enough to play inside, not fast or flexible enough to play outside.

To be that situation is "criminal", and he absolutely is grossly overpaid for the role he will play here.


The sad reality is that he hasn't been healthy enough for us to say damn we truly over paid the guy. I give him kudos for playing thru 2 bad shoulders but I'd rather the guy take a pay cut and not play at all till healthy. It's just one of those things that nobody has control over..
 

GhostOfPelluer

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,389
Reaction score
5,309
I don't think I said it was a negative trait, I said that having to frequently play through injuries (as in repeatedly having said injuries) can be viewed as a negative.



That's not remotely accurate or true. Collins is the obvious starter inside at 3T. And while Crawford very well might have been listed as getting the start at LDE, he was, at best a rotational guy at the position.
I guess we'll see when the season rolls around who is starting at 3T. I'll admit if I'm wrong, I don't think I will be (barring injury).
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,574
Reaction score
27,859
I don't think I said it was a negative trait, I said that having to frequently play through injuries (as in repeatedly having said injuries) can be viewed as a negative.



That's not remotely accurate or true. Collins is the obvious starter inside at 3T. And while Crawford very well might have been listed as getting the start at LDE, he was, at best a rotational guy at the position.

The only SDE in the NFL with more sacks and pressures were Bosa and Wake. I think you have unreasonable expectations of what SDE do in the NFL.
 

DallasDomination

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,791
Reaction score
6,205
Developing offensive line is one of the hardest things to do in the NFL. We've been extremely fortunate and I mean extremely fortunate that 3 of our picks adjusted and succeeded in the pro level. Most of these guys are straight trash once they get into the pros.


Collins was a stud in college but he has some learning. There's no way he plays tackle. He still has to get better as a guard. We'll have to figure that out some other way.
 

Stash

Staff member
Messages
78,835
Reaction score
103,565
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
The only SDE in the NFL with more sacks and pressures were Bosa and Wake. I think you have unreasonable expectations of what SDE do in the NFL.

What about the 6 sacks Pierre-Paul got in 12 games?

How many of those other guys are costing their teams $10 million for 2017?
 

Nightman

Capologist
Messages
27,121
Reaction score
24,038
What about the 6 sacks Pierre-Paul got in 12 games?

How many of those other guys are costing their teams $10 million for 2017?
come on now....don't be a liar.....you know it is 7.25m

and if try to say cap hit...... when DAL restructures him and his cap hit is 5.5m will he be worth it and will you report it that way???

ps- and he said sacks and pressures
 

MichaelWinicki

"You want some?"
Staff member
Messages
47,997
Reaction score
27,917
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Why would you say that?

He has 2 years of cheap control and is one of the best young OGs in the league

He's coming off an injury that kept him on the shelf for the majority of the season.

And as far as his play goes... It's been uneven. Some good (run blocking), some not so good (pass blocking). I don't think anyone would trade for him based on his potential at tackle, which would drive the demand down even more when it comes to trying to turn him for anything significant, i.e. a 3rd round pick or higher.

I'd just as soon take the comp pick that Leary is going to bring.
 

Nightman

Capologist
Messages
27,121
Reaction score
24,038
He's coming off an injury that kept him on the shelf for the majority of the season.

And as far as his play goes... It's been uneven. Some good (run blocking), some not so good (pass blocking). I don't think anyone would trade for him based on his potential at tackle, which would drive the demand down even more when it comes to trying to turn him for anything significant, i.e. a 3rd round pick or higher.

I'd just as soon take the comp pick that Leary is going to bring.
The so called comp pick is very conditional and will be a 5th(130 or higher) rounder in 2018

Collins injury is healed.....that is a stretch.......he has proven to a very good NFL OG
 

MichaelWinicki

"You want some?"
Staff member
Messages
47,997
Reaction score
27,917
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
The so called comp pick is very conditional and will be a 5th(130 or higher) rounder in 2018

Collins injury is healed.....that is a stretch.......he has proven to a very good NFL OG

I think you're perception of what he's done so far is greater than my perception of what he's done so far...

I do think there's room for improvement and he will, but he's not there yet IMO.

On the other side of the coin I simply don't think the Cowboys have any interest in resigning Leary for a long-term, expensive contract no matter what they did with Collins.
 

Nightman

Capologist
Messages
27,121
Reaction score
24,038
I think you're perception of what he's done so far is greater than my perception of what he's done so far...

I do think there's room for improvement and he will, but he's not there yet IMO.

On the other side of the coin I simply don't think the Cowboys have any interest in resigning Leary for a long-term, expensive contract no matter what they did with Collins.

Everyone can improve....but Collins beat out Leary twice so you may want to adjust your ratings

I agree about not re-signing Leary but I don't have this need to tear down Collins to prop up Leary
 

MichaelWinicki

"You want some?"
Staff member
Messages
47,997
Reaction score
27,917
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Everyone can improve....but Collins beat out Leary twice so you may want to adjust your ratings

I agree about not re-signing Leary but I don't have this need to tear down Collins to prop up Leary

Oh, i'm not down on Collins' potential. I like the kid's potential at guard. I just don't think he's quite the player yet at guard... which is OK in my book, he's a young guy who simply hasn't played a lot yet. I think his ceiling at guard is high.
 

CF74

Vet Min Plus
Messages
26,167
Reaction score
14,623
Everyone can improve....but Collins beat out Leary twice so you may want to adjust your ratings

I agree about not re-signing Leary but I don't have this need to tear down Collins to prop up Leary


It seems like half the board forgot how good Collins was prior to his injury...
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,574
Reaction score
27,859
What about the 6 sacks Pierre-Paul got in 12 games?

How many of those other guys are costing their teams $10 million for 2017?

I said sacks and pressures but even if you put JPP above Crawford, you still only have 3 guys in front of him. There are 15 teams running the 4-3.

No one is saying he is a world beater but you are treating him like he is George Selvie out there.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,574
Reaction score
27,859
Oh, i'm not down on Collins' potential. I like the kid's potential at guard. I just don't think he's quite the player yet at guard... which is OK in my book, he's a young guy who simply hasn't played a lot yet. I think his ceiling at guard is high.

Leary didn't come into his own until his 3rd year; it was not certain what we had in him after 2013. Collins has been much better in his first year than Leary was in his second.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,574
Reaction score
27,859
He's coming off an injury that kept him on the shelf for the majority of the season.

And as far as his play goes... It's been uneven. Some good (run blocking), some not so good (pass blocking). I don't think anyone would trade for him based on his potential at tackle, which would drive the demand down even more when it comes to trying to turn him for anything significant, i.e. a 3rd round pick or higher.

I'd just as soon take the comp pick that Leary is going to bring.

His pass blocking has been less about ability and more about reaction time to blitz, stunt, and twist pickup.
 
Top