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DallasEast

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Link > Star Trek: Section 31 | Teaser Trailer | Paramount+ (Video contains language)
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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I really enjoyed Deadpool and Wolverine. The story itself wasn't anything special, but Jackman was great, the cameos were fun, the action was good, and the humor was to my liking.
Loved Cavillrine[\SPOILER]
Agreed, reminded me a lot of Age of Ultron in a way. The plot was basically just “stuff happened”, but otherwise entertaining.
 

DallasEast

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Agreed, reminded me a lot of Age of Ultron in a way. The plot was basically just “stuff happened”, but otherwise entertaining.
Just my opinion and I agree the plot for Deadpool & Wolverine can be summarized as 'stuff happened' but not sure how it is similar to Avengers: Age of Ultron. A plot is the execution of a general explanation, followed by a notable opening event, action constructed upon it, a pinnacle point or climax, post-climax action, and lastly, the final clean-up of everything that transpired.

Both AOU and D&W have established plotlines, but they are not executed the same. I could go more in-depth for how I see an orderly procession of plot elements in AOU but could not do the same for D&W. The latter's plot is a manic collage. The League of Extraordinary Gentleman is an example I would make of randomly throwing a lot of stuff disorderly at an audience. I enjoyed TLOEG but still acknowledged how disjointed its presentation was.

D&W, like any Deadpool movie, is a helter-skelter machine gun illustration of the protagonist's mind. In my opinion, that is why these three movie plots have worked so dang well for much of the audience. Deadpool plots flow like river rapids--bunches of chaos with momentary moments of calm mixed in. Yet, that is who Deadpool is! The character is the nucleus, who ties all the expected zaniness together from start to finish.

Apologies for the rant. It is just me but I do admit AOU is a superhero movie that is a trigger of mine. So is Man of Steel, lol.
 

DallasEast

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Is it still a bottom 5 MCU movie or have they made enough clunkers to move it up to bottom 10?

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Hilarious.

I will mention this and move on from this sub-discussion. The parameter is now 'MCU movie'.

You do make a good point about relative audience apparel for the movie. For example, Rotten Tomatoes' All Marvel MCU Moves, Ranked By Tomatometer list (link) has AOU slotted at #26 of 34 movies. Definitely, AOU is a bottom nine consensus opinion according to that site. It is also six spots below D&W per its Tomatometer currently.

However, my earlier point addressed 'stuff happened' as a comparison evaluation of what happened in D&W and AOU, not how entertaining either movie was. And while I personally disagree with RT's general audience grade of 79% for D&W over 76% for AOU, I would contend that the list's #20 and #26 out of 34 MCU movies were both above average rankings for their overall entertainment value--despite their below average rankings per the list.

That is enough out of me. The last thing I need is for Taylor Swift to use me for inspiration for another one of her songs. :laugh:
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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Hilarious.

I will mention this and move on from this sub-discussion. The parameter is now 'MCU movie'.

You do make a good point about relative audience apparel for the movie. For example, Rotten Tomatoes' All Marvel MCU Moves, Ranked By Tomatometer list (link) has AOU slotted at #26 of 34 movies. Definitely, AOU is a bottom nine consensus opinion according to that site. It is also six spots below D&W per its Tomatometer currently.

However, my earlier point addressed 'stuff happened' as a comparison evaluation of what happened in D&W and AOU, not how entertaining either movie was. And while I personally disagree with RT's general audience grade of 79% for D&W over 76% for AOU, I would contend that the list's #20 and #26 out of 34 MCU movies were both above average rankings for their overall entertainment value--despite their below average rankings per the list.

That is enough out of me. The last thing I need is for Taylor Swift to use me for inspiration for another one of her songs. :laugh:
No I agree, none of the MCU movies are actually bad. The only one I found even a little boring was Captain Marvel because she was never in any drama, it was the same problem Superman movies had pre-MoS.

Separating for a moment from our opinions, we can observe that like MoS, you have a triggering to people criticizing AoU because it happens often enough to warrant your reaction. Are there people upset at the criticisms toward Avengers 1? Iron Man 1? Winter Soldier? Ragnarok? Probably not so much.

AoU is, anecdotally, a more divisive movie than many of the other installments in the franchise. In my opinion it is because the pacing wasn’t nearly as well done as Joss’ first movie in the series, and there are points where they’re just throwing stuff at you left and right.

Take D&W ((SPOILERS)):

We meet the survivors fighting against Cassandra Nova. They are suspicious of Deadpool, but D&W tell them that Johnny died and they were in the compound. Survivors immediately agree to help D&W, and then D&W have a heart to heart with Cassandra about Xavier and how she can be good like him. Not 3 minutes later, she has decided to destroy all of reality and nothing, not even the people she literally just helped to save their reality, can stop her from destroying it. And then for no particular reason, every Deadpool in the universe works for her except for prime. Though this never comes up in all the previous interactions between the two.

That reminded me a lot of the time the twins hated Tony Stark so much that they were willing to hurt people to get to him, and then immediately changed their minds partway through the movie and never brought it up again. And then Stark started creating a second Ultron, and then the twins are good now except they’re helping Cap fight stark and need to stop Ultron 2.0, and then Thor has a cave vision about the infinity gauntlet so he then also wants to make Ultron 2.0, and then Ultron 2.0 and Thor get into a brew ha ha, and then Ultron 2.0 decides to help Everyone and now Ultron 2 and Thor and Stark and the twins and Cap are all a happy team

and it’s like… is that the best way you could have done that? Thats what I mean about “stuff happens.”

“And then this happened! And then this happened! And then this happened!”
 

DallasEast

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No I agree, none of the MCU movies are actually bad. The only one I found even a little boring was Captain Marvel because she was never in any drama, it was the same problem Superman movies had pre-MoS.

Separating for a moment from our opinions, we can observe that like MoS, you have a triggering to people criticizing AoU because it happens often enough to warrant your reaction. Are there people upset at the criticisms toward Avengers 1? Iron Man 1? Winter Soldier? Ragnarok? Probably not so much.

AoU is, anecdotally, a more divisive movie than many of the other installments in the franchise. In my opinion it is because the pacing wasn’t nearly as well done as Joss’ first movie in the series, and there are points where they’re just throwing stuff at you left and right.

Take D&W ((SPOILERS)):

We meet the survivors fighting against Cassandra Nova. They are suspicious of Deadpool, but D&W tell them that Johnny died and they were in the compound. Survivors immediately agree to help D&W, and then D&W have a heart to heart with Cassandra about Xavier and how she can be good like him. Not 3 minutes later, she has decided to destroy all of reality and nothing, not even the people she literally just helped to save their reality, can stop her from destroying it. And then for no particular reason, every Deadpool in the universe works for her except for prime. Though this never comes up in all the previous interactions between the two.

That reminded me a lot of the time the twins hated Tony Stark so much that they were willing to hurt people to get to him, and then immediately changed their minds partway through the movie and never brought it up again. And then Stark started creating a second Ultron, and then the twins are good now except they’re helping Cap fight stark and need to stop Ultron 2.0, and then Thor has a cave vision about the infinity gauntlet so he then also wants to make Ultron 2.0, and then Ultron 2.0 and Thor get into a brew ha ha, and then Ultron 2.0 decides to help Everyone and now Ultron 2 and Thor and Stark and the twins and Cap are all a happy team

and it’s like… is that the best way you could have done that? Thats what I mean about “stuff happens.”

“And then this happened! And then this happened! And then this happened!”
Got some work to catch up on but I will reply later.
 

VaqueroTD

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Good quick clip of Marvel's Comic Con presentation. The 3 movies coming up this year, and a preview of next two Avengers projects.

 

DallasEast

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No I agree, none of the MCU movies are actually bad. The only one I found even a little boring was Captain Marvel because she was never in any drama, it was the same problem Superman movies had pre-MoS.
While I agree the Marvel Cinematic Universe has not pumped out a bad movie, I will add that a fair number of them have left me wanting more according to what I expect the translation from comic book page-to-screen should be. That has been my stance from Superman: The Movie to present.
Captain Marvel was not boring in my opinion. Do not worry, my fellow members. I will not be writing a 10,000 word essay explaining why I think that. :muttley: That said, The Marvels did come close for me.

Now, there have been non-MCU films that did though. X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance. My brain checked out for over an hour during The Flash. Eric Bana's rendition of Banner in the first Hulk movie had my eyes rolling for a good bit of the movie.

Dolph Lundgren's Punisher movie put me literally to sleep for about five minutes. I know. There were not that many people in the theater with me but several of them were staring at me after a snore woke me.

Add Superman III and (OMG) Superman IV: The Quest for Peace to that list. I would include 2015's Fantastic Four but that movie was so poor AND boring that it royally pissed me off. Still pissed off.

Superman Returns did not bore me but Brandon Routh sure as heck did. :laugh: My blood pressure is going back up thinking about him as Kal-El...

Separating for a moment from our opinions, we can observe that like MoS, you have a triggering to people criticizing AoU because it happens often enough to warrant your reaction. Are there people upset at the criticisms toward Avengers 1? Iron Man 1? Winter Soldier? Ragnarok? Probably not so much.
Guilty as charged about my triggers and I know what you are suggesting about other people's opinions of those examples or similar ones. However, I hold my opinion about all others--although I respect as my differing opinions from my own as possible. Age has helped me in that department.

AoU is, anecdotally, a more divisive movie than many of the other installments in the franchise. In my opinion it is because the pacing wasn’t nearly as well done as Joss’ first movie in the series, and there are points where they’re just throwing stuff at you left and right.
I do understand your perspective but disagree about pacing. The story's flow was smooth from start-to-finish in my view. I could go point-to-point, act-to-act, in describing how I perceived the plot building with new material falling logically into place as the movie progressed. For what it is worth, I do think I see where you are coming from.

Take D&W ((SPOILERS)):

We meet the survivors fighting against Cassandra Nova. They are suspicious of Deadpool, but D&W tell them that Johnny died and they were in the compound. Survivors immediately agree to help D&W, and then D&W have a heart to heart with Cassandra about Xavier and how she can be good like him. Not 3 minutes later, she has decided to destroy all of reality and nothing, not even the people she literally just helped to save their reality, can stop her from destroying it. And then for no particular reason, every Deadpool in the universe works for her except for prime. Though this never comes up in all the previous interactions between the two.

That reminded me a lot of the time the twins hated Tony Stark so much that they were willing to hurt people to get to him, and then immediately changed their minds partway through the movie and never brought it up again. And then Stark started creating a second Ultron, and then the twins are good now except they’re helping Cap fight stark and need to stop Ultron 2.0, and then Thor has a cave vision about the infinity gauntlet so he then also wants to make Ultron 2.0, and then Ultron 2.0 and Thor get into a brew ha ha, and then Ultron 2.0 decides to help Everyone and now Ultron 2 and Thor and Stark and the twins and Cap are all a happy team
I agree with your summation of throwing stuff for Deadpool & Wolverine. LIke I have stated previously, zany, a.k.a. quirky and eccentric, is central to a Deadpool plot.

I disagree with it being similar to what you described in Age of Ultron. Yes. Initially, Wanda and Pietro hated Stark, Wanda moreso than her brother. Their mutual animosity felt for Iron Man and his compatriots peaked during their initial fight at the adamantium exchange.

However, the plot did not have the twins flippantly switch emotional gears afterwards. Their feelings changed, shifted, became more introspective as the movie's action phase continued to build as:
  • Wanda getting a mental glimpse of Ultron's plan reading The Vision's mind
  • Both siblings watching their enemies fight their revenge partner while extracting The Vision
The plot exposed the twins to the same truth that the audience already knew. Ultron's true plans would be far more devastating to all of humanity than the war and horrors they suffered in part because of Stark's weaponry. They experienced the reality of sticking with the story's antagonist. It was not presented to them in secondhand fashion, thus requiring zero need to convince them which side to take.

Wanda was still not completely on The Avengers side when Cap told her Stark would take care of The Vision's containment pod. Her bias opinion of Tony's intentions prompted her to tell Steve his assumption of what HIS friend would do was wrong. Wanda did not just fall in line with the people she now needed. She lectured an Avenger of the inherit danger of trusting Stark since she knew his programming was Ultron's twisted version of him

Then the twins listened to The Vision's rationalizing with The Avengers of Ultron's plan. That experience cut even further and deeper into their previous feelings of revenge.

Understandably, the bulk of what happened to this point was focused interactions between team members. It is an Avengers movie, not a Maximoff movie, lol. The team retreating to Clint's farm to regroup took up a notable chunk of film time. That aside, the plot demonstrated how and why the twins' allegiance switched in logical progression that fit neatly within its presentation as it was nearing the eventual climax.

The cave scene? I found it essential. The original Avengers movie taught the team that Earth must fend itself from external threats but they did not know just how much of a threat existed. The AUDIENCE knew the real threat was Thanos. Ultron was a puppet in Thanos' plan. And what was Thanos' ultimate plan?

Answer: To gain possession of the Infinity Gauntlet and enact his insane universal plan of balancing want and need.

That is what the cave scene accomplishes. Omitting it does not provide the team any clue of the horrific danger they could face in Avengers: Infinity War. In short, it is a tie-in to what was to come.
and it’s like… is that the best way you could have done that? Thats what I mean about “stuff happens.”

“And then this happened! And then this happened! And then this happened!”
I have a better understanding of your stuff happening definition. Thanks. We may not share the same opinion depending upon any particular movie (or television series) and the specific plot.
 

DallasEast

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https://variety.com/2024/film/news/gwyneth-paltrow-robert-downey-jr-doctor-doom-marvel-1236088322/


Gwyneth Paltrow Reacts to ‘Iron Man’ Co-Star Robert Downey Jr.’s Shocking Marvel Return as Doctor Doom: ‘I Don’t Get It, Are You a Baddie Now?’​


GettyImages-167373035.jpg
LMBO! I cannot criticize Paltrow. She was a moving part within the MCU's Phases 1 though 3. She did not participate in any of the 17 movies and television series in Phase 4. Currently, Phase 5 has pumped out eight more projects without Pepper Potts.

What has been the focus of Phase 4 forward? Answer: the multiverse concept.

Plus, I seriously doubt she follows anything to do with the MCU passively as well. She was fortunate to have even seen Downey's Instagram post.

It is extremely likely she knows nothing about Marvel's multiverse story. I would almost bet she knew anything of characters associated with Iron Man. Why would she know anything about Doctor Doom?

Paltrow's clueless. It is not her fault.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Bringing Downu back almost kills how special the last phase was. That’s without knowing what role he will have. There is a way to make Doom work with Downey but if this is just a one off with Tony Stark as Doom that would be depressing.
 

John813

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Curious if Marvel has Dr. Doom more as an "anti-hero" than a Villain. Guess it also depends on how many films he'll actually be in too.
First anti-hero, then villain in the last film?

Feel like Dr. Doom should stretch out an entire phase/not die off like they do with others.

Not a spoiler as it's just a guess, if this is indeed a Stark variant I would say this is Stark after the first Avengers his paranoia is never kept in check and instead of creating Ultron he turns into Dr. Doom.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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Bringing Downu back almost kills how special the last phase was. That’s without knowing what role he will have. There is a way to make Doom work with Downey but if this is just a one off with Tony Stark as Doom that would be depressing.
rdj-robert-downey-jr.gif



I think if they did that it would really sully everything they’re building. They’re acutely aware that no one would enjoy a Dr Doom fake out. They said in the reveal that the character he’s playing is named Victor Von Doom. The Russos know Downey really well and I think they just don’t mind that he’s playing multiple characters.

Also strong possibility we never actually see Robert’s face. Doom doesn’t take his mask off for anyone. Some eyeball acting required though
 

DallasEast

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Also strong possibility we never actually see Robert’s face.
That possibility would be extremely atypical considering practically every mask wearing character has gotten uncovered face time throughout the MCU. I do see mask staying on initially during a possible cameo or two. Heck. No one saw Anson Mount's face during his [Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness one-shot, lol.

But Robert Downey hiding behind von Doom's mask throughout all his appearances? That would be unbelievable to me. There is one situation I conceive (and others will likely NOT appreciate happening) where Tony Stark's old family or friends are confronted by Doom. A face-to-face confrontation. It just begs for a climatic 'NO IT CANNOT BE YOU TONY!' moment with the mask coming off as shock value.
 
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