Commanders | B. Lloyd lands contract extension

[Bob Sacamano]

Ferguson struggled in our scheme last year.

hindsight is 20/20 my friend, and our team with Ferg at NT was better against the run than the Washington Oakland Raiders and Sam Adams Buffalo BIlls, but the fact remains, Ferg was a FA with credentials, while Adam Archuleta isn't

 

[Vintage]

hindsight is 20/20 my friend, and our team with Ferg at NT was better against the run than the Washington Oakland Raiders and Sam Adams Buffalo BIlls, but the fact remains, Ferg was a FA with credentials, while Adam Archuleta isn't

There are 10 other players on the defense outside of the NT.

That dictates a lot, no?

We are in better shape at those other 10 spots than either Oakland or Buffalo are, I think we can agree.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

There are 10 other players on the defense outside of the NT.

That dictates a lot, no?

We are in better shape at those other 10 spots than either Oakland or Buffalo are, I think we can agree.

how convenient, it's not worth debating with you if you're going to spin things around

 

[Vintage]

Its not like I don't understand why we signed Rivera or Ferguson. We had needs there that needed to be upgraded.

I would have rather signed Wahle, but that doesn't matter. And I don't doubt Ferguson was the best NT in free agency last year (for lack of anything, I cannot remember if any other NT's were available in free agency).

That doesn't mean Ferguson was one of the best NT's last year. He wasn't. Can he turn it around? Absolutely. His job is to eat blockers and clog the middle. As long as he does that next year, I am happy. That being said, we overpaid IMO for his services last year (in terms of what he gave us). Hopefully, this wont be the case this year. I still think we need to draft a big body at some point in the draft to help rotate with Ferguson.

Rivera was overpaid for the production he gave us last year. Hopefully he returns back to form (and healthy).

 

[Vintage]

how convenient, it's not worth debating with you if you're going to spin things around

So run defenses are all predicated on the NT?

It has nothing to do with the LB's backing him up?

Unless you are suggesting the NT is SOLEY responsible for stopping the run.

 

[peplaw06]

There are 10 other players on the defense outside of the NT.

That dictates a lot, no?

We are in better shape at those other 10 spots than either Oakland or Buffalo are, I think we can agree.

OK then. What do you base a NTs performance off of Vintage? Because it occurs to me that if you don't think run defense is a good indicator of who's playing well at the NT, then there must be something else you're looking at. What is it??

The reality is, then NT spot is meant to occupy OL so the LBs can get to the ball carrier without getting blocked. If the run defense of the Cowboys was better than the Raiders or Bills then that would mean our LBs are running more freely out there. Let's face it, these are NFL LBs we're talking about, they don't just miss for little or no reason very often. Just want to know what your basis is for saying Washington and Adams were better? Is it that the LBs behind them were wildly missing tackles way more often than the Cowboys LBs (who were a shell of themselves in the end of the season with all the injuries)?

 

[SultanOfSix]

I cannot believe I am siding with a Skins fan on this issue.

I'm not, because you probably are one. This thread seemed like one made in good humor, and the first thing you pointed out was how he burned the 'Boys in one game. It was a typical Commanders' fan response. Whoopee di doo.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

the fact remains, that in one way or another, Ferg and Rivera had credentials, Archuleta has none

also, we needed to sign Ferg in order to make the 3-4 switch, his experience in the scheme, and size and quickness, was vital, SSs the ilk of Archuleta are a dime a dozen, no need to overpay for him

 

[Bob Sacamano]

So run defenses are all predicated on the NT?

It has nothing to do with the LB's backing him up?

Unless you are suggesting the NT is SOLEY responsible for stopping the run.

I'm not saying any of that, just it can't be one way for ADams, and be different for Ferg

 

[Vintage]

OK then. What do you base a NTs performance off of Vintage? Because it occurs to me that if you don't think run defense is a good indicator of who's playing well at the NT, then there must be something else you're looking at. What is it??

The reality is, then NT spot is meant to occupy OL so the LBs can get to the ball carrier without getting blocked. If the run defense of the Cowboys was better than the Raiders or Bills then that would mean our LBs are running more freely out there. Let's face it, these are NFL LBs we're talking about, they don't just miss for little or no reason very often. Just want to know what your basis is for saying Washington and Adams were better? Is it that the LBs behind them were wildly missing tackles way more often than the Cowboys LBs (who were a shell of themselves in the end of the season with all the injuries)?

NT is a hard position to evaluate. Because generally, a NT is doing his job, he has little stats to show. He is there to occupy the center and a G. He tries to keep a G off the ILB so the ILB is free to roam/stop the run.

Its unfair to Washington, bec. the Raiders surrounding defense (sans Burgess) is terrible. We have more talent around Fergy than Washington has. There run defense would be terrible even with Hampton, IMO, bec. they have no LB's worth mentioning.

That was the point of it. It would be like having Tom Brady with no OL. Brady cannot work miracles if he is given no protection. But surround him with a good OL, good things happen.

Same sort of deal with NT. Washington did his job. His teammates around him sucked.

 

[Vintage]

I'm not, because you probably are one. This thread seemed like one made in good humor, and the first thing you pointed out was how he burned the 'Boys in one game. It was a typical Commanders' fan response. Whoopee di doo.

OK. Does the fact that I am a subscriber to the RR help matters anyway? Why would I want to be a RR subscriber if I was a Commander fan? Makes no sense to me.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

We have more talent around Fergy than Washington has.

yeah, our talent was so great that we're totally revamping the LB group outside of Ware

 

[BigDFan5]

Rivera was an aging veteran OG with a back injury.

I was upset with the signing, when we could have had Wahle for a little more. Not saying Rivera won't be better next season or Wahle is necessarily better, but IMO, Wahle was better last season and is younger/healthier. Not saying Rivera is not a healthy person. I wouldn't know. But he did have a back injury. I am not saying he will always have a back injury. But he did have one last year.

Ferguson is one of the best NT's in the game? C'mon....that's a stretch. He's solid. He got off to a slow start bec. of injuries. But last season he didn't play up to his contract. Not saying he won't ever, or won't next season...(I better start including these type of statements from now one, I guess....)


Archuleta is an upgrade over their SS from last year. Maybe they overpaid for him...(but he won't see the back years of the contract anyway).

Rivera had no injury when we signed him, Whale wanted to go to Carolina I believe he is from there and its the only place he visited

He had the back injury after we signed him not before and before week 16 last season he had not missed a game in 8 years

 

[Vintage]

I'm not saying any of that, just it can't be one way for ADams, and be different for Ferg

Ferguson had more help than Washington did. Ware would have been Oakland's best LB. Bradie would have been their second. Or vice versa. Oakland doesn't have the run supporting S we do in Roy either.

Fujita would have fit in nicely there though.....:laugh2:

And I am not doubting Rivera's credentials. I would just have preferred Wahle over Rivera. I am not the only Cowboy fan who wanted that either.

 

[Vintage]

Rivera had no injury when we signed him, Whale wanted to go to Carolina I believe he is from there and its the only place he visited

He had the back injury after we signed him not before and before week 16 last season he had not missed a game in 8 years

I know Rivera didn't miss a game until late in the season. He played the entire season hurt.

I forgot the injury occured after the signing. That was my error.

 

[peplaw06]

NT is a hard position to evaluate. Because generally, a NT is doing his job, he has little stats to show. He is there to occupy the center and a G. He tries to keep a G off the ILB so the ILB is free to roam/stop the run.

Its unfair to Washington, bec. the Raiders surrounding defense (sans Burgess) is terrible. We have more talent around Fergy than Washington has. There run defense would be terrible even with Hampton, IMO, bec. they have no LB's worth mentioning.

That was the point of it. It would be like having Tom Brady with no OL. Brady cannot work miracles if he is given no protection. But surround him with a good OL, good things happen.

Same sort of deal with NT. Washington did his job. His teammates around him sucked.

Give me a reason please... It can't be just that our LBs were that much better. We were playing with Shanle/Fowler and Fujita for most of the season back there. Come on. I guess you watched every Raiders and Bills games and did charts on how many tackles their LBs missed. Since that obviously didn't happen, what is it that makes you say Washington and Adams were "better?" That is what you said right? Maybe I misread you, or forgot to read your mind. Go ahead, tell me what you meant to say. Did you mean Washington and Adams tend to be better than Fergie, or they're probably better, or they may be better??

 

[Vintage]

yeah, our talent was so great that we're totally revamping the LB group outside of Ware

Bradie and Ware would have started for Oakland. Fujita would have given a run at it.

And we also have Roy in the box.

Something Oakland doesn't have either.

Plus, we could rotate Fergy with Glover (Pro Bowler). And we had Ellis, Spears, Canty, Coleman, and Ratliff (for part of the season). I think we were better suited with talent than Oakland. Though, Burgess did play well.

 

[peplaw06]

Ferguson had more help than Washington did. Ware would have been Oakland's best LB. Bradie would have been their second. Or vice versa. Oakland doesn't have the run supporting S we do in Roy either.

True, Roy is a great Run supporting S... but he didn't get to do too much of that last year remember?? He was getting "burned" week after week, since "he's so awful in coverage." RW had to make up for the fact that we had a special teamer playing FS last year. He wasn't able to make his presence felt too often in run support, not from lining up in the box anyway.

 

[peplaw06]

Ferguson had more help than Washington did. Ware would have been Oakland's best LB. Bradie would have been their second. Or vice versa. Oakland doesn't have the run supporting S we do in Roy either.

Fujita would have fit in nicely there though.....:laugh2:

And I am not doubting Rivera's credentials. I would just have preferred Wahle over Rivera. I am not the only Cowboy fan who wanted that either.

Wait a second, I just realized something Vintage. Oakland runs a 4-3!!! Good lord man, you can't compare Fergie to Washington. Fergie is being double teamed every play. DTs in the 4-3 have it easy compared to NT in the 3-4.

I absolutely LOVE the baseless comparisons. You're just spewing out rankings from the mediots. Whatever Tom Jackson tells you, that's the gospel. "Ted Washington is one of the top 4 NTs in the league." I guess this is what you get at RR. Clown.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I think we were better suited with talent than Oakland. Though, Burgess did play well.

fact of the matter is, in the 3-4, the LBs are responsible for taking down RBs in the running game, and applying pressure on the QB, and our LB group from last year is being revamped, you do the math