CFZ Comparing Bobby Wagner and LVE with recent stats

[jrumann59]

I respect your perspective here. Where I disagree is I think if you have a chance at a HOFer whose stats show he’s still got a ton of production, he’s worth it. I understand that some don’t. And I could be dead wrong too! I just think he would make this D even better whereas LVE and Wilson make it about what we’ve been getting. Which is good. But I don’t see it better.

HOFers towards the end of their career are like that, you run the same risk with Gilmore as well. Barr was not at Wagner's level but you could see the tread was thin with him last year. Father Time is undefeated.

 

[jrumann59]

Wagner may be like Ray Lewis who played at a very high level until he was 37. Wagner turns 33 this season.
And regarding being ”cap strapped”, the teams competing for SBs have all had cap limitations. They find a way to put a better roster together.

Hey I’m excited about the Gilmore trade today. But I would rather have the additions of Wagner+Gilmore + a rookie S and no Wilson or LVE. That IMO would give us a better D. Again, I could be wrong.

Baltimore built their defense and philosophy around Ray. They knew exactly what they needed in front of him and behind him so he could lead that defense. Wagner wopuld be stepping into a defense that has some positions that are fluid and also scheme he may not fit.

 

[Walker]

We NEED to go after Wagner. Signing LVE should not have barring on a game changing player.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Comparing Bobby Wagner with LVE…I know we signed LVE now but wish it would’ve been BW.
Here’s comparison of recent stats:

Bobby Wagner:

• Has started every game for 4 straight seasons
• Averages over 80 solo tackles a season for 7 straight years.
• Had 140 total tackles, 81 solo last year
• Had 6 sacks in 2022
• Had 2 INTs in 2022
• Had 10 TFLs in 2022
• Had 10 QB hits in 2022.

This does not look like a guy who has declined significantly.

LVE:

• Has only played one full season without missing a game over a 5 year career and has missed 22 games over that period.
• Averages about 57 solo tackles a season over 5. (Had one great year in 2018 in tackles)
• Had 90 total tackles, 54 solo in 2022.
• Had 1 sack in 2022.
• Had 1 INT in 2022.
• Had 4 TFLs in 2022.
• Had 1 QB hit in 2022.

I like LVE, but Wagner is a bona-fide HOFer and 6 time first team ALL Pro who still has lots to give.

Gosh I still want Wagner. They should let LVE and Wilson go.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

He's not going to get a long term deal at this point

NFL teams are notorious for doing dumb things, he may not get a long term deal, but stranger things have happened...

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Stop. Bobby Wagner is a much better player. Go get the upgrade and actually improve the team rather than sticking with the status quo.

Stop. Nobody said LVE is just as good as Wagner. There are other considerations - money and age.

It's not an either/or situation...

 

[jterrell]

Comparing Bobby Wagner with LVE…I know we signed LVE now but wish it would’ve been BW.
Here’s comparison of recent stats:

Bobby Wagner:

• Has started every game for 4 straight seasons
• Averages over 80 solo tackles a season for 7 straight years.
• Had 140 total tackles, 81 solo last year
• Had 6 sacks in 2022
• Had 2 INTs in 2022
• Had 10 TFLs in 2022
• Had 10 QB hits in 2022.

This does not look like a guy who has declined significantly.

LVE:

• Has only played one full season without missing a game over a 5 year career and has missed 22 games over that period.
• Averages about 57 solo tackles a season over 5. (Had one great year in 2018 in tackles)
• Had 90 total tackles, 54 solo in 2022.
• Had 1 sack in 2022.
• Had 1 INT in 2022.
• Had 4 TFLs in 2022.
• Had 1 QB hit in 2022.

I like LVE, but Wagner is a bona-fide HOFer and 6 time first team ALL Pro who still has lots to give.

Sheesh man and from a mod....

You can only sign the guys who want to be signed.
Wagner gave LA a sweetheart deal last year to go there and lose weekly because they were defending champs and it was home.
He returned to Seattle where he played all but that one year of his career and won a Super Bowl thus signing a retirement deal.

Wagner is likely a better player than LVE in 2023 but LVE was half the cost per year, with half the length.
And LVE is 6 NFL years younger.

LVE was a really good signing at well below his expected 7M AAV market.
He is a health risk but that is a sweetheart deal for Dallas to hand to a very loyal guy.

 

[StuckMojo]

I was hoping for a run stopping thumper at LB to go with Parsons

 

[jterrell]

I was hoping for a run stopping thumper at LB to go with Parsons

You got exactly that in Dono Wilson.
Dallas is going to play 3 safeties about 40% of the time.
Wagner would have been great here but he would have been very costly and he would have wanted to leave the West Coast.

 

[Bobhaze]

You got exactly that in Dono Wilson.
Dallas is going to play 3 safeties about 40% of the time.
Wagner would have been great here but he would have been very costly and he would have wanted to leave the West Coast.

Where I disagree is we don’t know yet what Wagner would have cost.
What we do know is Gilmore probably makes us better. But keeping Wilson keeps us the same. Is Wilson in his 6th season going to turn into something more than he’s been? He’s a decent S. He’s good. But he’s not going to be a huge difference maker IMO.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Where I disagree is we don’t know yet what Wagner would have cost.
What we do know is Gilmore probably makes us better. But keeping Wilson keeps us the same. Is Wilson in his 6th season going to turn into something more than he’s been? He’s a decent S. He’s good. But he’s not going to be a huge difference maker IMO.

Yup just like LVE. Same guy that is charmin soft and is a detriment to the run defense

 

[Whirlwin]

Comparing Bobby Wagner with LVE…I know we signed LVE now but wish it would’ve been BW.
Here’s comparison of recent stats:

Bobby Wagner:

• Has started every game for 4 straight seasons
• Averages over 80 solo tackles a season for 7 straight years.
• Had 140 total tackles, 81 solo last year
• Had 6 sacks in 2022
• Had 2 INTs in 2022
• Had 10 TFLs in 2022
• Had 10 QB hits in 2022.

This does not look like a guy who has declined significantly.

LVE:

• Has only played one full season without missing a game over a 5 year career and has missed 22 games over that period.
• Averages about 57 solo tackles a season over 5. (Had one great year in 2018 in tackles)
• Had 90 total tackles, 54 solo in 2022.
• Had 1 sack in 2022.
• Had 1 INT in 2022.
• Had 4 TFLs in 2022.
• Had 1 QB hit in 2022.

I like LVE, but Wagner is a bona-fide HOFer and 6 time first team ALL Pro who still has lots to give.

I think that’s the problem. This is a show me what you have today game. Not what you did last season.

 

[Hennessy_King]

I think that’s the problem. This is a show me what you have today game. Not what you did last season.

Huh?? Not only did wagner have the better career but he was leaps better than Vander Trash last season

 

[Whirlwin]

Huh?? Not only did wagner have the better career but he was leaps better than Vander Trash last season

We got two linebackers for the price of one and we signed Gilmore. If we got Bobby that might not have happened. Lv played extremely well at the end of the season when we needed him most. Just because players have a great career doesn’t mean it continues elsewhere down the road. That’s the only point I was trying to get across. It’s still a show me game . He’s always had talent around him.

 

[calicowboy54]

Comparing Bobby Wagner with LVE…I know we signed LVE now but wish it would’ve been BW.
Here’s comparison of recent stats:

Bobby Wagner:

• Has started every game for 4 straight seasons
• Averages over 80 solo tackles a season for 7 straight years.
• Had 140 total tackles, 81 solo last year
• Had 6 sacks in 2022
• Had 2 INTs in 2022
• Had 10 TFLs in 2022
• Had 10 QB hits in 2022.

This does not look like a guy who has declined significantly.

LVE:

• Has only played one full season without missing a game over a 5 year career and has missed 22 games over that period.
• Averages about 57 solo tackles a season over 5. (Had one great year in 2018 in tackles)
• Had 90 total tackles, 54 solo in 2022.
• Had 1 sack in 2022.
• Had 1 INT in 2022.
• Had 4 TFLs in 2022.
• Had 1 QB hit in 2022.

I like LVE, but Wagner is a bona-fide HOFer and 6 time first team ALL Pro who still has lots to give.

Not Disagreeing here just playing Devil's advocate, just look at what LVE had done in a 3rd of the time. wait until he's played 4 straight seasons and then see who's better.

 

[blueblood70]

Where I disagree is we don’t know yet what Wagner would have cost.
What we do know is Gilmore probably makes us better. But keeping Wilson keeps us the same. Is Wilson in his 6th season going to turn into something more than he’s been? He’s a decent S. He’s good. But he’s not going to be a huge difference maker IMO.

hey bob, you do realize we are not in the know, neither are most of the SM sports writers, you know who most likely knows what Wagner wants? right, the Cowboys have already talked to his agents two season in row and recently, they have general idea of Wagners asking price..

they moved to the next group while bobby works out his options. other were interested in LVE 2, other teams were in talks.. like i said i know Wagner is the better LB but his cost , age, and are ability to basically get 2-3 players on defense instead of him, was the final factor in their decisions.

THE FO knows what bobbys asking$..he might come down bit later but for now we must infer they passed over his cost.

 

[blueblood70]

Not Disagreeing here just playing Devil's advocate, just look at what LVE had done in a 3rd of the time. wait until he's played 4 straight seasons and then see who's better.

Bobbys better no matter how LVE career end, he will never have wagners ceiling but i agree with the FO move to instead get LVE, Wilson and Gilmore on very team friendly deals.

 

[Whyjerry]

Comparing Bobby Wagner with LVE…I know we signed LVE now but wish it would’ve been BW.
Here’s comparison of recent stats:

Bobby Wagner:

• Has started every game for 4 straight seasons
• Averages over 80 solo tackles a season for 7 straight years.
• Had 140 total tackles, 81 solo last year
• Had 6 sacks in 2022
• Had 2 INTs in 2022
• Had 10 TFLs in 2022
• Had 10 QB hits in 2022.

This does not look like a guy who has declined significantly.

LVE:

• Has only played one full season without missing a game over a 5 year career and has missed 22 games over that period.
• Averages about 57 solo tackles a season over 5. (Had one great year in 2018 in tackles)
• Had 90 total tackles, 54 solo in 2022.
• Had 1 sack in 2022.
• Had 1 INT in 2022.
• Had 4 TFLs in 2022.
• Had 1 QB hit in 2022.

I like LVE, but Wagner is a bona-fide HOFer and 6 time first team ALL Pro who still has lots to give.

They are not even in the same class. I wish they would not have signed LVE.

 

[Hennessy_King]

We got two linebackers for the price of one and we signed Gilmore. If we got Bobby that might not have happened. Lv played extremely well at the end of the season when we needed him most. Just because players have a great career doesn’t mean it continues elsewhere down the road. That’s the only point I was trying to get across. It’s still a show me game . He’s always had talent around him.

What u talkin about Wagner was pff's #1 lb in the nfl last year and stats backed it up. He balled out, lve wishes he could be in the same room with him last season

 

[TexasHillbilly]

LVE is cheaper and 27 years old. He’s solid. And if you sign Wagner you may have to let Wilson walk. I am ecstatic with what the Cowboys accomplished today. It’s been a long time since they had a day like today in the offseason. Enjoy it.

LVE is solid until he hits someone with his head. He then gets injured. I think that's really what keeps him from getting too aggressive. He's not bad but he is no Wagner....if stats are any indication.