CFZ Comparing Bobby Wagner and LVE with recent stats

[Cowboys22]

Looking at the depth chart, it looks like they still need another veteran LB and one in the draft so we'll see what happens. I view LVE as a solid move they probably felt they had to pull the trigger on when a quick deal couldn't be had with Wagner but I'm hoping they are still open to adding another above average LB at some point.

 

[Whirlwin]

What u talkin about Wagner was pff's #1 lb in the nfl last year and stats backed it up. He balled out, lve wishes he could be in the same room with him last season

Again, I don’t care what happened in the past.

 

[T-RO]

I wasn’t that high on Donovan Wilson. He’s a good player but I don’t see him a big piece of this D.

You are very much mistaken about that. I'm going to post a thread on Wilson soon with some stunning info on him. You'll see.

As others have noted: Wagner would have been nice, but price for him at his age would have been high risk, and limited our other moves.

 

[Bobhaze]

You are very much mistaken about that. I'm going to post a thread on Wilson soon with some stunning info on him. You'll see.

As others have noted: Wagner would have been nice, but price for him at his age would have been high risk, and limited our other moves.

I am often wrong my friend, so you could be right. As I’ve said, I don’t dislike Wilson. I just don’t think he’s anything special. Wagner on the other hand is special. And as far as risk, he hasn’t missed a game in 4 years and was again ranked by PFF as a top 5 LB in the NFL. His stats have remained consistently good for years.

 

[MyFairLady]

The LVE deal is fine. He will probably be worth the money he got. If not little harm done. Not sure what Wagner thinks he is worth but I can promise you any team that hands over 30 million in guaranteed money will end up sad. If he will come on board for 2 years at 18 million then lets go baby. I feel like he would turn his nose up at that offer pretty quick. Probably wants 50 million over 4 years with 30 million guaranteed. That would be foolish unless you are just going all in 100% this year and plan to blow it all up in 2 years and spend the next 4 rebuilding. Not saying that is a bad plan. Definitely not the Cowboys way.

 

[KDM256]

LVE deal is fine if that was the only option for Dallas. Me personally will love a play making thumper (Wagner) in the middle of the field that isn't timid on sticking his helmet in a gap and who is available for all 18 games. Availability is the best ability!

LVE might not be the worse signing Dallas could have done but history has shown this guy is going to miss some games at some point during the season and has the tendency to easily get caught up in the wash at times against dominant running teams.

 

[eromeopolk]

Comparing Bobby Wagner with LVE…I know we signed LVE now but wish it would’ve been BW.
Here’s comparison of recent stats:

Bobby Wagner:

• Has started every game for 4 straight seasons
• Averages over 80 solo tackles a season for 7 straight years.
• Had 140 total tackles, 81 solo last year
• Had 6 sacks in 2022
• Had 2 INTs in 2022
• Had 10 TFLs in 2022
• Had 10 QB hits in 2022.

This does not look like a guy who has declined significantly.

LVE:

• Has only played one full season without missing a game over a 5 year career and has missed 22 games over that period.
• Averages about 57 solo tackles a season over 5. (Had one great year in 2018 in tackles)
• Had 90 total tackles, 54 solo in 2022.
• Had 1 sack in 2022.
• Had 1 INT in 2022.
• Had 4 TFLs in 2022.
• Had 1 QB hit in 2022.

I like LVE, but Wagner is a bona-fide HOFer and 6 time first team ALL Pro who still has lots to give.

Neither one will look good behind inferior DTs and DT performance. NEED DTs.

 

[Bobhaze]

LVE deal is fine if that was the only option for Dallas. Me personally will love a play making thumper (Wagner) in the middle of the field that isn't timid on sticking his helmet in a gap and who is available for all 18 games. Availability is the best ability!

LVE might not be the worse signing Dallas could have done but history has shown this guy is going to miss some games at some point during the season and has the tendency to easily get caught up in the wash at times against dominant running teams.

I like LVE. He’s a decent LB who has flashed great moments but battled injuries and a lack of interior DL help to keep blockers off him. He has pretty good coverage skills when needed and his range is above average. My problem with re-signing him and Donovan Wilson is this: We won’t be BETTER with them back…unless we get some upgrades at DL.

Neither one will look good behind inferior DTs and DT performance. NEED DTs.

Agree 100%.

 

[AbeBeta]

Comparing Bobby Wagner with LVE…I know we signed LVE now but wish it would’ve been BW.
Here’s comparison of recent stats:

Bobby Wagner:

• Has started every game for 4 straight seasons
• Averages over 80 solo tackles a season for 7 straight years.
• Had 140 total tackles, 81 solo last year
• Had 6 sacks in 2022
• Had 2 INTs in 2022
• Had 10 TFLs in 2022
• Had 10 QB hits in 2022.

This does not look like a guy who has declined significantly.

LVE:

• Has only played one full season without missing a game over a 5 year career and has missed 22 games over that period.
• Averages about 57 solo tackles a season over 5. (Had one great year in 2018 in tackles)
• Had 90 total tackles, 54 solo in 2022.
• Had 1 sack in 2022.
• Had 1 INT in 2022.
• Had 4 TFLs in 2022.
• Had 1 QB hit in 2022.

I like LVE, but Wagner is a bona-fide HOFer and 6 time first team ALL Pro who still has lots to give.

I wouldn't focus on tackles. They are not official and Seattle is notorious for inflated box scores in those areas. We once had a DT who they credited with 10 tackles. We traded him soon after for a 7th. Wouldn't have noticed him in the game.


Also, your averages are frankly, stoopid. If someone missed games, it makes no sense to talk about yearly averages. You are just compounding the games played statistic.

 

[Bobhaze]

I wouldn't focus on tackles. They are not official and Seattle is notorious for inflated box scores in those areas. We once had a DT who they credited with 10 tackles. We traded him soon after for a 7th. Wouldn't have noticed him in the game.


Also, your averages are frankly, stoopid. If someone missed games, it makes no sense to talk about yearly averages. You are just compounding the games played statistic.

The stats I quoted are from NFL.com not an individual team.

 

[Stash]

Comparing Bobby Wagner with LVE…I know we signed LVE now but wish it would’ve been BW.
Here’s comparison of recent stats:

Bobby Wagner:

• Has started every game for 4 straight seasons
• Averages over 80 solo tackles a season for 7 straight years.
• Had 140 total tackles, 81 solo last year
• Had 6 sacks in 2022
• Had 2 INTs in 2022
• Had 10 TFLs in 2022
• Had 10 QB hits in 2022.

This does not look like a guy who has declined significantly.

LVE:

• Has only played one full season without missing a game over a 5 year career and has missed 22 games over that period.
• Averages about 57 solo tackles a season over 5. (Had one great year in 2018 in tackles)
• Had 90 total tackles, 54 solo in 2022.
• Had 1 sack in 2022.
• Had 1 INT in 2022.
• Had 4 TFLs in 2022.
• Had 1 QB hit in 2022.

I like LVE, but Wagner is a bona-fide HOFer and 6 time first team ALL Pro who still has lots to give.

It will be interesting to compare the contracts whenever Wagner signs somewhere.

 

[Bobhaze]

It will be interesting to compare the contracts whenever Wagner signs somewhere.

It certainly will. Because the LB market is not as high as Wagner probably hoped it is. I still have a slight hope he could end up here. Slight, lol.

 

[CouchCoach]

They had Wilson and Vander Esch last season and the run D was below par. Wagner would have helped the run D. And he is a leader on D.

 

[Bobhaze]

They had Wilson and Vander Esch last season and the run D was below par. Wagner would have helped the run D. And he is a leader on D.

My main argument against signing both LVE and Wilson is they don’t make us better. I like both those guys but if getting better is THE goal, we shouldn’t have signed both IMO.

 

[Pass2Run]

Comparing Bobby Wagner with LVE…I know we signed LVE now but wish it would’ve been BW.
Here’s comparison of recent stats:

Bobby Wagner:

• Has started every game for 4 straight seasons
• Averages over 80 solo tackles a season for 7 straight years.
• Had 140 total tackles, 81 solo last year
• Had 6 sacks in 2022
• Had 2 INTs in 2022
• Had 10 TFLs in 2022
• Had 10 QB hits in 2022.

This does not look like a guy who has declined significantly.

LVE:

• Has only played one full season without missing a game over a 5 year career and has missed 22 games over that period.
• Averages about 57 solo tackles a season over 5. (Had one great year in 2018 in tackles)
• Had 90 total tackles, 54 solo in 2022.
• Had 1 sack in 2022.
• Had 1 INT in 2022.
• Had 4 TFLs in 2022.
• Had 1 QB hit in 2022.

I like LVE, but Wagner is a bona-fide HOFer and 6 time first team ALL Pro who still has lots to give.

LVE was cheap. And he'll make more money for being cheap in Dallas.

I'm all good with it. He's earning his spot.

 

[Pass2Run]

Replacing Wilson and getting a HOF LB who excels at (you guessed it) run defense. Is much easier than you think. I’d take Gilmore and Wagner without Wilson over LvE Gilmore and Wilson.

I think that's where you're wrong though. I also under-estimated how good Wilson was, until last year.

You'll see.

He's important. Plus, that's just one player.

How do you feel about that if Wagner, who is older, misses 8 games due to injury?

I'll take three above average players over a really good one, an above average, and a below average pick on my roster.

 

[Pass2Run]

My main argument against signing both LVE and Wilson is they don’t make us better. I like both those guys but if getting better is THE goal, we shouldn’t have signed both IMO.

I think signing them both shows how we may be drafting though. We have them for known depth guys, then we draft Campbell or land Branch and we're looking at a situation where they're back ups, or starters, while the younger guy develops. You still have room to draft a LB, and this draft has some nice ones, I think.

 

[Bobhaze]

I think that's where you're wrong though. I also under-estimated how good Wilson was, until last year.

You'll see.

He's important. Plus, that's just one player.

How do you feel about that if Wagner, who is older, misses 8 games due to injury?

I'll take three above average players over a really good one, an above average, and a below average pick on my roster.

Wagner has missed 2 games in the last 7 years. He’s incredibly durable.
LVE has missed 22 games in 5 seasons. I like LVE, but there’s no comparison in talent or durability.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Comparing Bobby Wagner with LVE…I know we signed LVE now but wish it would’ve been BW.
Here’s comparison of recent stats:

Bobby Wagner:

• Has started every game for 4 straight seasons
• Averages over 80 solo tackles a season for 7 straight years.
• Had 140 total tackles, 81 solo last year
• Had 6 sacks in 2022
• Had 2 INTs in 2022
• Had 10 TFLs in 2022
• Had 10 QB hits in 2022.

This does not look like a guy who has declined significantly.

LVE:

• Has only played one full season without missing a game over a 5 year career and has missed 22 games over that period.
• Averages about 57 solo tackles a season over 5. (Had one great year in 2018 in tackles)
• Had 90 total tackles, 54 solo in 2022.
• Had 1 sack in 2022.
• Had 1 INT in 2022.
• Had 4 TFLs in 2022.
• Had 1 QB hit in 2022.

I like LVE, but Wagner is a bona-fide HOFer and 6 time first team ALL Pro who still has lots to give.

Asking price. One is affordable. One isn't.

 

[Pass2Run]

Neither one will look good behind inferior DTs and DT performance. NEED DTs.

Wasn't Wagner playing behind Donald?