Twitter: Competition Committee says Dez caught it **merged**

[KJJ]

Actually tripping is a foul.

SECTION 40 TRIPPING
Tripping is the use of the leg or foot to obstruct any opponent (including a runner) (12-1-4-c and 12-1-8).

Article 8: Tripping by Defensive Player. A defensive player is prohibited from tripping an opponent, including the runner.

There has to be intent. If a defender is falling to the ground after a receiver has caught the ball and his foot happens to trip up the receiver who’s also falling that’s not a foul. Those of you who are trying to spin that Sheilds tripped Dez are just looking for a new angle.

 

[KJJ]

sure he was going to go to the ground because he was setting up a lunge.

That’s just more solid evidence that you don’t know what going to the ground means. He had to lunge because he was falling. Had he been able to keep his feet he wouldn’t have needed to lunge.

 

[Aviano90]

That’s just more solid evidence that you don’t know what going to the ground means. He had to lunge because he was falling. Had he been able to keep his feet he wouldn’t have needed to lunge.

Logic. He would have just waltzed on into the end zone.

So I guess he wasn’t an idiot just because he wouldn’t wrap the ball up on 4th down, but also because he felt the need to dive when he could have just ran in for the score.

 

[blindzebra]

That’s just more solid evidence that you don’t know what going to the ground means. He had to lunge because he was falling. Had he been able to keep his feet he wouldn’t have needed to lunge.

Obviously, you don't know what a lunge means. He attempted to propel himself into the endzone, that has nothing to do with going to the ground.

 

[blindzebra]

Logic. He would have just waltzed on into the end zone.

So I guess he wasn’t an idiot just because he wouldn’t wrap the ball up on 4th down, but also because he felt the need to dive when he could have just ran in for the score.

For someone with no interest to change anyone's mind you sure keep posting. I see you also follow the lets spin what was actually said into something else tactic.

 

[KJJ]

Obviously, you don't know what a lunge means. He attempted to propel himself into the endzone, that has nothing to do with going to the ground.

He couldn’t stay on his feet because he was falling so he had no choice but to lunge and reach for the endzone to try and score. There would have been no need for him to lunge and reach for the endzone if he could have stayed on his feet.

 

[KJJ]

Logic. He would have just waltzed on into the end zone.

So I guess he wasn’t an idiot just because he wouldn’t wrap the ball up on 4th down, but also because he felt the need to dive when he could have just ran in for the score.

We’re dealing with someone who doesn’t use logic. No need for Dez to lunge and reach for the endzone if he could have just ran it in. A dive and reach is move a receiver makes when they’re falling.

 

[MarcusRock]

Here's why the old A.R. 15.95 had to go:
It said a player could complete the catch process and become a runner, even while falling (In the old A.R. 15.95, the player didn't get his second foot down until he was already falling).

Except A.R. 8.12 also has a player not getting his second foot down until he was already falling.

A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS
First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted
by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right
arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the
goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out.​

This A.R. 8.12 also appears in the 2014 Rules and 2015 Rules, hence if "a player could complete the catch process and become a runner, even while falling" as you say above, then they could do so in both years, meaning the rule didn't change, did it? This must be why there's zero support out there for the rules changing meanwhile a bunch that says the rules did not change. Hmmmm. Ol' zebra couldn't provide any support, where's yours?

Ooops.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/...anges-and-points-of-emphasis-to-watch-in-2015
"Let's be clear. The rule that disallowed an apparent catch by Dallas Cowboys receiver Dez Bryant in the NFC divisional playoffs, and another by Detroit Lions receiver Calvin Johnson in 2009, remains unchanged in substance. The NFL did modify its wording, however, in hopes of making the rule make more sense to players, fans and media members in cases where a player is falling while in the process of making a catch."

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/2...hange-catch-rule-after-dez-bryant-controversy
"To put it bluntly, the rule itself has not changed."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...rule-and-it-might-actually-be-more-confusing/
"The interesting part here is that Dez Bryant's no-catch, the thing that sparked the rule change, would still be a no-catch under the new rule."​

 

[KJJ]

He attempted to propel himself into the endzone, that has nothing to do with going to the ground.

Why did he attempt to propel himself into the endzone if he wasn’t going to the ground?

 

[MarcusRock]

BS, it fits your opinion. We have stated all along that case plays can not all be covered, and if this magical lunge existed why can't you ever find a rule citation to support it?

The rule clearly states time to perform ANY ACT common to the game. Not a gather and a lunge. Find a rule citation then we will talk. Marcus ran from this, I am sure you will too. My side has 8.1.3.c and 3.2.7 to corroborate my stance. You have some dreamed up scenario built around your opinion.

While we are at it explain why Blandino himself said a hand down is a football act in the article in post 632. You and I both know Dez did a hell of a lot more than that including putting a hand down in GB.

Ran from this? Lol. I told you, you're trying to shoehorn rules that apply to a receiver catching a pas on his feet to a receiver who is going to the ground. Different sets of rules. Shoehorning (and lying about the rules changing) is what catch theorists have to do to prevent going to the ground from applying because you know your argument is toast if it does. Unfortunately for you, that is what happened.

 

[MarcusRock]

We supplied the case plays to you, so yeah we had no idea what they said.

You guys had no idea about anything when this started. If nothing else we taught you where to look. Sadly, you still have no idea how to interpret what you find/

Which is why I had to correct you in this post on the case plays. Yup. The place where you said the player didn't actually have to lunge because he was a runner beforehand. I mean, at least make the nonsense believable when you're mucking stuff up, lol.

 

[MarcusRock]

Link?

I never saw one provided either. Must be lie and never offer support time (again).

 

[Aviano90]

For someone with no interest to change anyone's mind you sure keep posting. I see you also follow the lets spin what was actually said into something else tactic.

Yeah, that wasnt directed at you. Surely you don’t need to be told that. Are you just used to getting your own way and everyone bowing to your greatness? Well, suck it up, buttercup.

 

[MarcusRock]

You are right. I just watched it again a second time. It looks similar to the Ertz play.

Dez's play is somewhere between the Calvin play and the Thomas play. Dez was caught it in the air, landed and took a couple of steps (while going to the ground) and then reached for the end zone.

It is clear the NFL is treating steps taken while going to the ground differently than steps taken by a player that caught the ball while running. I am not sure I see anything like this in the rules, but that is the position they have been taking.

But I guess the question then is, what does a receiver that jumps in the air and catches a ball need to do to establish himself as a runner? I don't think this was ever clear from previous rules or the new rules. If the receiver catches the ball while running, a few steps and a reach will do, but if the receiver jumps and then comes down with the ball, when do we consider such receiver a runner?

For a player that leaps and comes down with the ball to be considered a runner, he needs to first make sure that he doesn't continue down to the ground, because then Item 1 (going to the ground) is slapped on him unless he does an act that demonstrates he's not going to the ground. Case plays (3 of them) illustrate that a lunge does this. If he can come down without falling to the ground then those sets of rules that apply to receivers on their feet apply (parts a-b-c) just like applied to Thomas in that video.

 

[blindzebra]

Why did he attempt to propel himself into the endzone if he wasn’t going to the ground?

One more time, show where I said he wasn't?

 

[blindzebra]

For a player that leaps and comes down with the ball to be considered a runner, he needs to first make sure that he doesn't continue down to the ground, because then Item 1 (going to the ground) is slapped on him unless he does an act that demonstrates he's not going to the ground. Case plays (3 of them) illustrate that a lunge does this. If he can come down without falling to the ground then those sets of rules that apply to receivers on their feet apply (parts a-b-c) just like applied to Thomas in that video.

Thomas was going to the ground. The case plays said an act common to the game ended it, you know like the title of case play A.R. 15.95.

Still waiting on that rule citation, by the way.

 

[KJJ]

One more time, show where I said he wasn't?

So you agree Dez was going to the ground during the process of making the catch?

 

[blindzebra]

Except A.R. 8.12 also has a player not getting his second foot down until he was already falling.

A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS
First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted
by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right
arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the
goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out.​

This A.R. 8.12 also appears in the 2014 Rules and 2015 Rules, hence if "a player could complete the catch process and become a runner, even while falling" as you say above, then they could do so in both years, meaning the rule didn't change, did it? This must be why there's zero support out there for the rules changing meanwhile a bunch that says the rules did not change. Hmmmm. Ol' zebra couldn't provide any support, where's yours?

Ooops.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/...anges-and-points-of-emphasis-to-watch-in-2015
"Let's be clear. The rule that disallowed an apparent catch by Dallas Cowboys receiver Dez Bryant in the NFC divisional playoffs, and another by Detroit Lions receiver Calvin Johnson in 2009, remains unchanged in substance. The NFL did modify its wording, however, in hopes of making the rule make more sense to players, fans and media members in cases where a player is falling while in the process of making a catch."

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/2...hange-catch-rule-after-dez-bryant-controversy
"To put it bluntly, the rule itself has not changed."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...rule-and-it-might-actually-be-more-confusing/
"The interesting part here is that Dez Bryant's no-catch, the thing that sparked the rule change, would still be a no-catch under the new rule."​

And you guys accuse Percy of copy and paste...what is this the 10th time you have posted this in this thread?

 

[KJJ]

Thomas was going to the ground.

He wasn’t going to the ground during the process of making the catch. He caught the ball, turned up field, began to run then he fell to the ground. All those parts established him as a runner.

 

[blindzebra]

So you agree Dez was going to the ground during the process of making the catch?

No he had 2 feet down with control and then went to the ground where he took a step, moved the ball to his left hand, and reached, which completes the catch process and he landed as a runner down by contact, just like the case plays say.