Could teams be holding Micah on purpose?

[silvernblu]

Yall are arguing with a guy who defended the Detroit shenanigans on the two point play as legit. Aint worth the effort. Just assume that if it screws the Cowboys then he's all for it and move on.

Got it.

 

[1942willys]

What gets me is the part where supposedly you can hold a guy if there is two of you. In What dystopian world is that OK?

 

[MarcusRock]

Well I’ll be. We were talking about two different plays the whole time. We are both right it seems

Two different plays? We were always talking about the photo in the OP. You asked me to tell you why that wasn't a hold, remember? So if you're agreeing it wasn't a hold then which play are you talking about and what's the timestamp in the game so I can find it?

 

[MarcusRock]

Yall are arguing with a guy who defended the Detroit shenanigans on the two point play as legit. Aint worth the effort. Just assume that if it screws the Cowboys then he's all for it and move on.

Shaddup Ronnie. How many times have I busted you lying about Cowboys victimization? Lol. I can always tell when I'm right because then the minions get angry and start throwing stones to distract from it.

 

[silvernblu]

Two different plays? We were always talking about the photo in the OP. You asked me to tell you why that wasn't a hold, remember? So if you're agreeing it wasn't a hold then which play are you talking about and what's the timestamp in the game so I can find it?

Same game around the Miami 40.

 

[glimmerman]

When a team can get away with it they will keep doing it. And laugh about it…

 

[Blackspider214]

The only thing casual fans hate more than a low scoring defensive game is a flag fest. So, there isn't much incentive for the NFL to press for more penalties, unless it's to protect their precious QBs.

So then don't call flags for both sides. The issue is, Dallas gets called for ticky tack junk constantly, while other teams are allowed to get away with literally choking our guys to slow them down. Allow us to do the same. Heck, we get called for penalties that were supposed to be for the other team (tripping on Detroit) that almost lost us the game.

 

[Blackspider214]

Wont happen because they don't want to open up that can of worms. They start calling holding for Parsons the refs are going to start calling the holding on the Cowboys oline too. It sucks for these EDGE players, but it really seems like the NFL has sort of quietly agreed that they'd rather not get a few calls in their favor to not get the calls on offense in their detriment and keep their QBs as clean as possible.

Ummmm they already call Dallas for holding. Every. Single. Game.

 

[blueblood70]

yes

I think they are now, but they know they can get away with it or if it's going to be a seldom rare penalty thrown why not hold the best player on the field that can actually wreck your offense??

It's ridiculous really,

I don't see how the league is allowing this to go on it's almost like they become stubborn you know the referees wouldn't call the pass interference when they made it a new rule to review it is you can challenge it and they just ignored it... they literally basically told Roger Goodell in the NFL that they run **** and they should just back off because they're doing things how they feel like it.... And I think all the complaints and all the drama concerning Micah Parsons not getting penalties have made the refs actually dig in more and say well we get to control things because it's subjective, we don't believe those holds affected the play..UGGH!

 

[thunderpimp91]

Ummmm they already call Dallas for holding. Every. Single. Game.

How many on passing plays? Not very many at all. THey don't chart it specifically so you have to go through the logs and count manually. I did quickly yesterday so it may not be completely accurate, but I only counted 5 holding on pass plays called against the Cowboys. The vast majority of holding calls seem to be on run plays or special teams.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/

 

[Cowboys5217]

I like how that still shot was actually not a hold when you run the video. And Micah posted it on his social media to boot.

As for on purpose, it's in the rules that holding chances could be exempted during a double team. So I'd double team him all game if I was an offense.

It absolutely was a hold. I don't think you even believe yourself at this point. you just can't let it go because you have taken it so far.

 

[Pantone282C]

Yes, absolutely. Jeff Saturday said as much after the Miami game.
https://atozsports.com/dallas/former-nfl-coach-says-shocking-reality-about-micah-parsons/

This isn't just a Micah thing though, it's a Cowboys thing. There were two egregious ones on Clark in that Miami game that also weren't called.

NFL officiating is reaching a polarizing zenith. To have more than just a team's fans discuss the dilemma publicly in such a revealing manner is significant. Either a lot of fans, and now some analysts, are missing the point or there really is a problem. Or, perhaps this has always been a problem, and the giant microscope of social media is simply pointing it out? Maybe. I do not know for sure. Some opinions refer to, "material holding." Does that refer to clothing or to some broad definition of blocking techniques? That would give a lot of leeway in decision making by refs, maybe too much.

 

[Pantone282C]

Instruct the line that if you're losing, hold on every 7 step drop. Even if they call it on 2 of 20 plays, you lost 10 yards. But if you connect on a big play elsewhere you will make those yards up.

Risk management lawyers in big corporations do the same thing all the time. Affordable loss.

 

[Cowboys5217]

Really they are though. The Cowboys have 25 holding penalties on the year (accepted penalties against the Cowboys). The vast majority of them are coming on run plays and special teams. I really don't think the league is targeting the Cowboys pass rush to not throw the flag, they simply are not calling holding penalties league wide in order to (I would assume) protect the QBs. We see more holding calls on run plays by a heavy majority, in the Cowboys case it's almost 80% of the time.

If the Cowboys Oline isn't being told to push the rules on a pass rush that's a failure of our coaching staff. Micah Parsons is the most obvious victim of how they are calling the games, but Myles Garrett, TJ Watt, etc. are all frustrated by the lack of calls they are getting.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/offensive-holding?year=2023

None of those teams are getting hosed like Dallas on holding calls.

Dallas got called for 36 total holding calls (worst in the NFL).

Dallas' holding call differential (calls for vs calls against) was -16 (worst in the NFL).
* The league average for holding call differential was -1.5.

Meanwhile, Parsons went 11 straight games (and counting) without a holding call in his favor while having generated 71 QB pressures.

These numbers are criminal. There is no incompetence excuse that will hold here against this, especially the extreme outlier from the average in holding call differential. These are hard receipts.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/offensive-holding?year=2023&view=team
https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/defensive-holding?year=2023&view=team

 

[Pantone282C]

None of those teams are getting hosed like Dallas on holding calls.

Dallas got called for 36 total holding calls (worst in the NFL).

Dallas' holding call differential (calls for vs calls against) was -16 (worst in the NFL).
* The league average for holding call differential was -1.5.

Meanwhile, Parsons went 11 straight games (and counting) without a holding call in his favor while having generating 71 QB pressures.

These numbers are criminal. There is no incompetence excuse that will hold here against this, especially the extreme outlier from the average in holding call differential. These are hard receipts.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/offensive-holding?year=2023&view=team
https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/defensive-holding?year=2023&view=team

That is a disturbingly significant statistical value.

 

[CxC1993]

It’s blatant at this point.

 

[Cowboys5217]

That is a disturbingly significant statistical value.

Give us 14 more holding calls in our favor in 2023 to bring us closer to league avg and we go 14-3 rather than 12-5. We are getting hosed 2 games worth on holding call b.s.

 

[thunderpimp91]

None of those teams are getting hosed like Dallas on holding calls.

Dallas got called for 36 total holding calls (worst in the NFL).

Dallas' holding call differential (calls for vs calls against) was -16 (worst in the NFL).
* The league average for holding call differential was -1.5.

Meanwhile, Parsons went 11 straight games (and counting) without a holding call in his favor while having generated 71 QB pressures.

These numbers are criminal. There is no incompetence excuse that will hold here against this, especially the extreme outlier from the average in holding call differential. These are hard receipts.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/offensive-holding?year=2023&view=team
https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/defensive-holding?year=2023&view=team

Everything you're saying is true, but again I think it comes back to run plays vs pass plays. Right or wrong NFL officials are not calling holding on pass plays with any regularity and the vast majority of what has been called on the Cowboys has been in the run game or special teams. I'd have to go back through the data as it's a few weeks old now, but I know TJ Watt had 5 holding penalties called against him, only 1 was on a pass rush, the other 4 were in the run game. No idea if he's had more flags in his favor since or not. Micah Parsons is maybe the best pass rusher in football, but has been very middle of the pack in the run game. If my theory is true and refs are letting Olines get away with holding on passing plays around the league it starts to make some sense...again i'm not saying that it's the right thing to do, but from the NFLs perspective with so many elite athletes as EDGE players these days it would make for terrible TV as you'd have 10 flags thrown for holding every game easily and more QBs would be out with injuries. The Cowboys are an excellent team throwing the football, but have struggled all year in running it. From that perspective it starts to make more sense why the Cowboys offense would get more holding calls on them, especially with the constant shuffle they've played this year with so many players missing time and Steele getting a very slow start to the season coming off his injury.

Are the Cowboys getting screwed over? Yeah. Is it to the extent people are making it out to be? No. It is some big conspiracy against the team? I highly doubt it.

 

[Cowboys5217]

Everything you're saying is true, but again I think it comes back to run plays vs pass plays. Right or wrong NFL officials are not calling holding on pass plays with any regularity and the vast majority of what has been called on the Cowboys has been in the run game or special teams. I'd have to go back through the data as it's a few weeks old now, but I know TJ Watt had 5 holding penalties called against him, only 1 was on a pass rush, the other 4 were in the run game. No idea if he's had more flags in his favor since or not. Micah Parsons is maybe the best pass rusher in football, but has been very middle of the pack in the run game. If my theory is true and refs are letting Olines get away with holding on passing plays around the league it starts to make some sense...again i'm not saying that it's the right thing to do, but from the NFLs perspective with so many elite athletes as EDGE players these days it would make for terrible TV as you'd have 10 flags thrown for holding every game easily and more QBs would be out with injuries. The Cowboys are an excellent team throwing the football, but have struggled all year in running it. From that perspective it starts to make more sense why the Cowboys offense would get more holding calls on them, especially with the constant shuffle they've played this year with so many players missing time and Steele getting a very slow start to the season coming off his injury.

Are the Cowboys getting screwed over? Yeah. Is it to the extent people are making it out to be? No. It is some big conspiracy against the team? I highly doubt it.

There's no other reason more valid than intentional bias. Incompetence cannot explain the numbers. Incompetence does even out over time. incompetence would mean that Parsons would get some of these holding calls made, and even would get some phantom calls in his favor. He gets no calls at all.

And this ain't unusual for Dallas.
2017 - Dallas went 8 straight games without getting a holding call of any kind in their favor.
2018 - Dallas went 325 straight opponent passing plays (9 games) without the opponents getting called for holding.

Use Occam's Razor. If incompetence cannot reasonably explain it then it must be intentional.

 

[MarcusRock]

Same game around the Miami 40.

Is there video on YouTube or something or do you have a timestamp or quarter it happened? If not, who made a play that down and maybe I can find it in the play by play.