Cowboys looking to trade for more picks...

[TheMarathonContinues]

The guy to trade for picks is Ware.

He could fetch a ton, and frankly, I think he's close to done. He's not special anymore.

So why on earth would a team give you a "ton" for a guy you feel is "close to done"? That makes no sense...

 

[KJJ]

@SullyBaldHead: Cowboys really like the depth in this draft, don't be surprised if they trade future picks (2014-15) for more selections this April.

Jerry also liked the depth in the 09 draft when he wants more picks he just keeps trading down to acquire them. It's always a little unnerving when you read the Cowboys really like the depth in the upcoming draft.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Jerry also liked the depth in the 09 draft when he wants more picks he just keeps trading down to acquire them. It's always a little unnerving when you read the Cowboys really like the depth in the upcoming draft.

Fortunately, it's not just the Cowboys who believe this is a deep draft. A lot of people are saying the same thing. I think it is a deep draft but I just think that because you really don't have the Top Rated #1 bulletproof QB, LOT, CB or WR in this draft, the perception is that it's weak. It's deep and there are a lot of really good player IMO. If you draft well in this draft, you could have some guys who are helping your team for 10 years down as low as the 4th round.

 

[jjktkk]

Jerry also liked the depth in the 09 draft when he wants more picks he just keeps trading down to acquire them. It's always a little unnerving when you read the Cowboys really like the depth in the upcoming draft.

Please no!!!

 

[DFWJC]

Jerry also liked the depth in the 09 draft when he wants more picks he just keeps trading down to acquire them. It's always a little unnerving when you read the Cowboys really like the depth in the upcoming draft.

The trading away from good players was bad, but the premis that there were not good players intrade downs was not.

The problem was that in almost every single pick, they took a player that would not even contribute or not even make the team while passing (even with the traded down pick) on some really good talent.

Examples

69) We took Jason Williams and passed on MICHAEL JOHNSON, DE and Terrance Knighton

75) We took Robert Brewster and passed on MIKE WALLACE, WR

101) We took Stephen McGee and passed on HENRY MELTON, DT

110) We took Victor Butler (not too bad) and passed on GLOVER QUIN, S.

120) We took Brandon Williams instead of LAWRENCE SIBURY, DE

143) We took Deanglo Smith instead of THOMAS MORESTEAD, P

164) We took Michael Hamlin instead of MATT SLAUSEN, G

172) We took David Beuhler (not bad) instead of Brandon Gibson, WR and Javon Ringer, RB.

197) We took Steven Hodge (or anyone after him) instead of ARIAN FOSTER

ETC, ETC, ETC

all hindsite, I know.

The points are two fold though
1) We could have traded back and done just fine in that draft
2) The draft is the far better and cheaper way to build a team IF you can identify the talent.

Could imagine if we had
Mike Wallace, WR
Arian Foster, RB
Micheal Johnson, DE
Henry Melton, DT
Glover Quin, S
Matt Slausen, G

all starting for us?

Not to mention the others

 

[honyock]

Fortunately, it's not just the Cowboys who believe this is a deep draft. A lot of people are saying the same thing. I think it is a deep draft but I just think that because you really don't have the Top Rated #1 bulletproof QB, LOT, CB or WR in this draft, the perception is that it's weak. It's deep and there are a lot of really good player IMO. If you draft well in this draft, you could have some guys who are helping your team for 10 years down as low as the 4th round.

Agreed, it's not a great draft to be picking in the top 10 or if you need a QB or elite skill player, but the depth of talent through early in day three looks really strong. It looks like a really good lunchpail draft class.

 

[xwalker]

1) We could have traded back and done just fine in that draft

Agree. Trading down was not the real problem with the 2009 draft.

 

[speedkilz88]

2009 was a weak draft though. And I'm pretty sure the Cowboys thought that. But there are always going to be good players available in a weak draft its that its a whole lot more difficult to hit on the good ones. Instead of picking out the ones that did pan out show the actual rounds and show all the guys who didn't. Where the Cowboys screwed up is thinking that the more picks would give them a better chance to find those good ones. When trading up and getting quality is what a smart team should do. The best chance of hitting was in the first two rounds and the Cowboys didn't have any picks in those rounds thanks to the RoyW trade and the trade down.

 

[L-O-Jete]

The draft is not remotely weak...it's very strong, in fact. You must be referring to 1st round QBs. Then yes, it would be weak.

This draft is weak at the top. I really only believe there are like 20 guys who seriously worth a 1st but from 2nd down to 4th round, this draft is really good. There are lots of guys at positions that are not usually available in the lower rounds. This is a very deep draft IMO, just not as good at the top.

It just seems deep because there is no drop-off, because there is no true elite talent. Who's considered a blue chipper?
When the top guys are an 8.5 it makes the 7's in the middle rounds more alluring, but they are no better than the 7's you get every draft.

 

[KJJ]

Fortunately, it's not just the Cowboys who believe this is a deep draft. A lot of people are saying the same thing. I think it is a deep draft but I just think that because you really don't have the Top Rated #1 bulletproof QB, LOT, CB or WR in this draft, the perception is that it's weak. It's deep and there are a lot of really good player IMO. If you draft well in this draft, you could have some guys who are helping your team for 10 years down as low as the 4th round.

When teams start talking about how deep a draft is that usually means it's not very good at the top. From everything I've been hearing there's not going to be that big a drop off in talent between the 5th player taken and the 15th player which means we're looking at a real crapshoot this year. Anytime a draft isn't strong at the top it makes for a real roll of the dice. According to a thread that was started the Cowboys only have 4 players left from the 06, 07, 08 and 09 drafts. The Cowboys don't draft well which is one of the reasons the team keeps spinning it's wheels every season. They'll certainly be some good players that will come from this draft but like all drafts it's comes down to picking the right players which is something the Cowboys...errr Jerry has a tough time doing.

With no consensus #1 player this will be a very interesting top 10. Even though there isn't a great QB prospect out there there's a possibility 3 QB's could still go in the top 10. A month ago none of these QB's looked very appealing but teams that need QB's are slowly starting to warm up to them with the draft a little more than a month away. JAX is still having issues at QB. Philly could take a flier on one. AZ definitely needs a QB and Buffalo needs one now that Fitzpatrick has been released. All these QB's start looking a lot better come draft day when you're desperate.

No one knows for sure what's going to happen on draft day but one thing I do know is Jerry isn't about to trade future picks especially as far down the road as 2015 for picks in this draft. When you've been 8-8 the past 2 seasons you don't trade future picks you want to "receive" future picks. Trade downs and trading future picks for Joey Galloway and Roy Williams haven't worked out well for Jerry the past 15 years. If I'm Jerry I'm picking the best players available in this draft unless someone offers me a great deal to move down. Jerry gets too trade down happy and he's been burned. His best drafts have been when he's either traded up or stayed pat.

 

[L-O-Jete]

Agree. Trading down was not the real problem with the 2009 draft.

You could do that excercise for every draft and you'd get much better results/more options other years.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It just seems deep because there is no drop-off, because there is no true elite talent. Who's considered a blue chipper?
When the top guys are an 8.5 it makes the 7's in the middle rounds more alluring, but they are no better than the 7's you get every draft.

No. I mean, the top talent might not be as good as in years past but the talent in rounds 2 thru 4 is deeper then in past years and it has nothing to do with the players rated at the top of the boards.

 

[DFWJC]

2009 was a weak draft though. And I'm pretty sure the Cowboys thought that. But there are always going to be good players available in a weak draft its that its a whole lot more difficult to hit on the good ones. Instead of picking out the ones that did pan out show the actual rounds and show all the guys who didn't. Where the Cowboys screwed up is thinking that the more picks would give them a better chance to find those good ones. When trading up and getting quality is what a smart team should do. The best chance of hitting was in the first two rounds and the Cowboys didn't have any picks in those rounds thanks to the RoyW trade and the trade down.

This definitely was not an argument for trading down.
It was showing that you can trade down and succeed. The hit rate was extremely high in the later rounds that year compared to most years and I only listed the obvious ones.

On the other hand, the upper part of the 1st round in 2009 was historically disasterous.
In the end, like most of us have said all along, we could have just stayed put and done really well in that draft, IF we took the right players.

Once again, it always comes down to player evaluation.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

The trading away from good players was bad, but the premis that there were not good players intrade downs was not.

The problem was that in almost every single pick, they took a player that would not even contribute or not even make the team while passing (even with the traded down pick) on some really good talent.

Examples

69) We took Jason Williams and passed on MICHAEL JOHNSON, DE and Terrance Knighton

75) We took Robert Brewster and passed on MIKE WALLACE, WR

101) We took Stephen McGee and passed on HENRY MELTON, DT

110) We took Victor Butler (not too bad) and passed on GLOVER QUIN, S.

120) We took Brandon Williams instead of LAWRENCE SIBURY, DE

143) We took Deanglo Smith instead of THOMAS MORESTEAD, P

164) We took Michael Hamlin instead of MATT SLAUSEN, G

172) We took David Beuhler (not bad) instead of Brandon Gibson, WR and Javon Ringer, RB.

197) We took Steven Hodge (or anyone after him) instead of ARIAN FOSTER

ETC, ETC, ETC

all hindsite, I know.

The points are two fold though
1) We could have traded back and done just fine in that draft
2) The draft is the far better and cheaper way to build a team IF you can identify the talent.

Could imagine if we had
Mike Wallace, WR
Arian Foster, RB
Micheal Johnson, DE
Henry Melton, DT
Glover Quin, S
Matt Slausen, G

all starting for us?

Not to mention the others

They would all be living via free agency by now right? You can't pay all those guys and pay the current guys we have on our roster too.....that would be over 200 million in salary cap lol.

And had we drafted Mike Wallace we would've never drafted Dez.....give me Dez.

Let's be realistic about the draft. In most cases the best teams get 2 or 3 impact players per draft and when I say impact I mean starters. Nobody hits on that many draft picks.

2009 was a terrible draft. No running from it. One of the worst i've seen and I felt that way even when we made those picks. But 2009 was also a very weak draft so I guess if you are going to have a draft like that make sure its a weak one and not a draft loaded with guys.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

This definitely was not an argument for trading down.
It was showing that you can trade down and succeed. The hit rate was extremely high in the later rounds that year compared to most years and I only listed the obvious ones.

On the other hand, the upper part of the 1st round in 2009 was historically disasterous.
In the end, like most of us have said all along, we could have just stayed put and done really well in that draft, IF we took the right players.

Once again, it always comes down to player evaluation.

It comes down to luck. When you evaluate a player all you can do is go by their workouts and their tape and HOPE it transfers to the NFL. Someone decided to look at a tape of Miles Austin and thought he couldn't play in this league and wasn't even worth a 7th round pick. Someone felt the same way about James Harrison.

 

[DFWJC]

They would all be living via free agency by now right? You can't pay all those guys and pay the current guys we have on our roster too.....that would be over 200 million in salary cap lol.

.

lol
No doubt.

Of course, that is a dream problem to have. Too much talent..sweet. You can always trade some if you think you'll lose them.

The point is that you can trade up, trade down, or stay put and still succeed int he draft.

2009 is the whipping boy draft, but that was not the point. I mean , we drafted so poorly that year that you could try your hardest to pick the worst player each round and not do much worse. The probelem was not the trades as much as the eval.

Again, the point was only that it can be done successfully many number of ways.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

lol
No doubt.

Of course, that is a dream problem to have. Too much talent..sweet. You can always trade some if you think you'll lose them.

The point is that you can trade up, trade down, or stay put and still succeed int he draft.

2009 is the whipping boy draft, but that was not the point. I mean , we drafted so poorly that year that you could try your hardest to pick the worst player each round and not do much worse. The probelem was not the trades as much as the eval.

Again, the point was only that it can be done successfully many number of ways.

Ok I missed your point. Your 100% correct. Yea the trading down wasn't what cost us....hell giving away the #1 for Roy didn't even cost us. It was a terrible draft and I was LIVID when I heard someone in the organization say "it was a special teams draft...." and none of those guys could play special teams either. lol

 

[KJJ]

The trading away from good players was bad, but the premis that there were not good players intrade downs was not.

The problem was that in almost every single pick, they took a player that would not even contribute or not even make the team while passing (even with the traded down pick) on some really good talent.

Examples

69) We took Jason Williams and passed on MICHAEL JOHNSON, DE and Terrance Knighton

75) We took Robert Brewster and passed on MIKE WALLACE, WR

101) We took Stephen McGee and passed on HENRY MELTON, DT

110) We took Victor Butler (not too bad) and passed on GLOVER QUIN, S.

120) We took Brandon Williams instead of LAWRENCE SIBURY, DE

143) We took Deanglo Smith instead of THOMAS MORESTEAD, P

164) We took Michael Hamlin instead of MATT SLAUSEN, G

172) We took David Beuhler (not bad) instead of Brandon Gibson, WR and Javon Ringer, RB.

197) We took Steven Hodge (or anyone after him) instead of ARIAN FOSTER

ETC, ETC, ETC

all hindsite, I know.

The points are two fold though
1) We could have traded back and done just fine in that draft
2) The draft is the far better and cheaper way to build a team IF you can identify the talent.

Could imagine if we had
Mike Wallace, WR
Arian Foster, RB
Micheal Johnson, DE
Henry Melton, DT
Glover Quin, S
Matt Slausen, G

all starting for us?

Not to mention the others

Since Jimmy left Jerry traded away from Tony Brackens back in 96 who became a pro bowler for JAX and took Kavika Pittman who went bust. He traded away from Steven Jackson for future picks in 04.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It comes down to luck. When you evaluate a player all you can do is go by their workouts and their tape and HOPE it transfers to the NFL. Someone decided to look at a tape of Miles Austin and thought he couldn't play in this league and wasn't even worth a 7th round pick. Someone felt the same way about James Harrison.

I don't think it's all luck. Certain teams are too good at acquiring talent. I think it has to do with putting together a strategy that the organization uses to acquire talent. Stick to that and believe in that approach and I think it probably helps a lot in being successful.

All too often, it seems like we don't really have a plan, long term. We just draft out of need a lot of times and we seem to be drawn towards the Shinny.

 

[speedkilz88]

Since Jimmy left Jerry traded away from Tony Brackens back in 96 who became a pro bowler for JAX and took Kavika Pittman who went bust. He traded away from Steven Jackson for future picks in 04.

Parcells was there for the Steven Jackson. He (and Mo Carthon) wanted one of the Jones' and got one. They claimed after that draft that his knee scared them off. But Steve is still going.