cowboys secondary vs. Commanders wr

[SkinsFan26]

A mod should perform a random act of kindness and ban Skinsfan26 to save himself from posting more embarrassing stupidity... I'm sure his family would appreciate it.

Besides, he's straight trolling with no intention of debating football intelligently... Or is it that he's unable to do so?

I am not trolling. I like debating football with Cowboys fans. I just wish the posters here with something good to say would engage more often.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

this topic is ridiculous. the skins beat the boys by a combined score of what? 47-20 last year?

the skins did this with ONE WR. they've just added 2 more starters at WR.

this is not tough.

Well, let's not beat around the bush. By your words, Washington should not only destroy Dallas next season, but should win the Super Bowl. Anything else should be considered a huge failure and a mark on Joe Gibbs' legacy.


Rich.............

 

[chinch]

Brunell not legitimate? Only 2 QBs in the NFC had a higher rating.
He should have made the Pro Bowl!

That being said, no one knows when Campbell will take over the spot.

i was saying assuming Brunell is NOT hurt and is playing effectively

 

[SkinsFan26]

You're in denial man. and your in the wrong forum just trying to piss people off. look at the scoeboard from the last 10 years, or last 30 for that matter.... now shush!!!

Enough of the past. The rivalry got renewed in 2005. Clean slate from here on.

 

[superpunk]

Why would you not count him, he was a first round pick and you cant lable him as a "nobody" yet. And on that list, Spears does not deserve to be there.

Except, Spears actually played last year, and he did pretty well towards the end of the year. Campbell hasn't seen the field. So, you've got three recent draftees contributing. Thrilling.....

 

[riggo]

Well, let's not beat around the bush. By your words, Washington should not only destroy Dallas next season, but should win the Super Bowl. Anything else should be considered a huge failure and a mark on Joe Gibbs' legacy.


Rich.............

rich, i dont mean to sound like a wise ***, but, come on. it is what it is.

 

[SkinsFan26]

this topic is ridiculous. the skins beat the boys by a combined score of what? 47-20 last year?

the skins did this with ONE WR. they've just added 2 more starters at WR.

this is not tough.

i forgot to mention- 6 passing TD's vs that scary dallas secondary....with ONE WR.

 

[superpunk]

rich, i dont mean to sound like a wise ***, but, come on. it is what it is.

Yeah - the past.

 

[Gamebreaker]

Those are what are called supplemental signings. How many key players do the Skins have that they've drafted? Cooley? Samuels?Sean Taylor?

All teams have free agents. Yes. If you thought I was trying to refute that, I'd suggest some sort of reading course. The model for success is drafting well, and signing FAs to supplement your draft. It is NOT signing Free Agents to fill almost your entire team, while ignoring your teams draft.

Good teams draft well.

Bad teams draft poorly, or not at all.

Bad teams don't go 10-6 and make the playoffs. You also neglected to mention Jon Jansen and Robert Royal. Beyond drafting players, Gibbs and co. have a tendency to develop low round or undrafted players into solid, productive starters. Antonio Pierce was one of those, Ryan Clark, Lemar Marshall, and Joe Salevea are others. To even think the Commanders don't use free agency as a tool to fill in a couple of weak spots in the roster, but instead, to create a whole new team is ridiculous and barely worth replying to.

 

[cleverusername]

2005 (with all players above)

Reg Season
Commanders 2
Cowboys 0

Playoffs
Commanders 1
Cowboys 0

2006 offseason
Commanders 4 good acquisitions
Cowboys maybe 1 (Ayodele)

Commanders moving forward! Cowboys stading still at best.

"Commanders moving forward! Cowboys stading still at best."

does not make sense!

 

[Taylor_Can_Hit21]

Except, Spears actually played last year, and he did pretty well towards the end of the year. Campbell hasn't seen the field. So, you've got three recent draftees contributing. Thrilling.....

Lol, yeah and we dont get contributors in the offseason. I guess you've never heard of Santana Moss, Marcus Washington, and Cornelius Griffin. Doesn't matter, the draft is a crapshoot, it's better to get proven talent if you dont have a good pick like us.

 

[Gamebreaker]

I actually look at the fact that the since 1999, Super Bowl teams have an average of 16 starters on their roster that were guys they either drafted or signed as an undrafted free agent.

It appears Washington will have, at the most, 7 starters on their that were either drafted or signed as an undrafted free agent.

That's not to say Washington can't go to the Super Bowl, but they would certainly be bucking a big trend.

Rich.........

That's interesting, and you actually did this research yourself or are you just reiterating information you've heard elsewhere?

 

[superpunk]

Bad teams don't go 10-6 and make the playoffs. You also neglected to mention Jon Jansen and Robert Royal. Beyond drafting players, Gibbs and co. have a tendency to develop low round or undrafted players into solid, productive starters. Antonio Pierce was one of those, Ryan Clark, Lemar Marshall, and Joe Salevea are others. To even think the Commanders don't use free agency as a tool to fill in a couple of weak spots in the roster, but instead, to create a whole new team is ridiculous and barely worth replying to.

You just continue to dig your hole deeper, don't you?

The Skins actually looked like they knew what they were doing last year. Stay put in the draft, draft need, don't go nuts in free agency....and guess what? They had some success. As for your examples of developing late round players.....please jsut stop now.

Antonio Pierce - not with the team.

Ryan Clark - not with the team.

And those are exactly the kind of players teams need for continued success. I believe it was mentioned earlier that your team has 7 starters that they actually drafted. That means 68% of your starting lineup comes from free agency.

I repeat - this has NEVER worked.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Bad teams don't go 10-6 and make the playoffs

Funny, Skins fans couldn't give Dallas one ounce of respect back in 2003 when they went 10-6 and made the playoffs.

According to Skins fans, we just played an easy schedule.




Rich...........

 

[Yakuza Rich]

That's interesting, and you actually did this research yourself or are you just reiterating information you've heard elsewhere?

I actually did the research myself.

Rich..........

 

[superpunk]

Lol, yeah and we dont get contributors in the offseason. I guess you've never heard of Santana Moss, Marcus Washington, and Cornelius Griffin. Doesn't matter, the draft is a crapshoot, it's better to get proven talent if you dont have a good pick like us.

Is it? Then why don't the really successful teams in the league do it that way, I wonder?

 

[riggo]

I actually look at the fact that the since 1999, Super Bowl teams have an average of 16 starters on their roster that were guys they either drafted or signed as an undrafted free agent.

It appears Washington will have, at the most, 7 starters on their that were either drafted or signed as an undrafted free agent.

That's not to say Washington can't go to the Super Bowl, but they would certainly be bucking a big trend.

Rich.........

rich,

correct me if i'm wrong, but, for all the crap the skins get about FA and the draft, i believe that since 99, the skins have had 2 more first round picks than dallas. and the vast majority have been nice picks.

how many players are still with dallas since 99? dont forget that 2 years ago, your RB came through FA, your currrent QB was a FA, and up til yesterday, and possible again- your best WR was a FA. that's just the offense.

 

[Gamebreaker]

So years of history, and examples of successful teams, is a cop out? I viewed it more as a trend. But what do I know?



I could go back, but I'd wager existing players stepping up in Lewis' scheme had alot more to do with that jump than Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders.



The model for success, and continued success, is drafting well, and supplementing the draft with FAs in areas of need you can't address in the draft. No team has succeeded by ignoring the draft, and stocking their team with overhyped, overpriced free agents. The chemistry is not there, and for whatever reason, it doesn't work. Not ever.

I'd take that wager. You also forgot Mark Carrier, who did a wonderful job at FS, which was a major problem with our secondary for the previous 3-4 seasons.

Also, we are not overhauling the entire team. The core players, to key players who helped the team become 10-6 are still there. Addressing needs through free agency, as you put it, is exactly what the Skins front office ha done. Just because alot of hype has followed it doesn't change anything those players will do for this team. No one wants to address how Lloyd and Randle El aren't upgrades over David Patten and Taylor Jacobs. No, it's easier to just blindly say,"It can't work."

 

[Henry]

Building through the draft is great. It's my preferred method of building a team.

Gibbs, however, has never built through the draft relative to his peers. During his first run, the one where he won three superbowls, he made four first round picks in twelve years. Traded all the rest away, and the Commanders averaged fewer picks than rounds back then. Only one defensive starter and five offensive starters (only one of them a skill position player) played in all three Gibbs Superbowls. Roster turnover does not bother Gibbs. Never has.

The only area on those teams that was built through the draft and did not experience a high turnover was the Offensive Line. Guess what? Three of our current five offensive linemen were Commander draft picks. Four of the five of them will be playing their fourth year together.

Gibbs has proven he can win this way before. The only difference this time around is that there's a cap, and apparently that's not a big problem for the Commanders. If it becomes one, I'd be happy to revisit this discussion. But until then, all this talk about HAVING to build through the draft rings hollow to anyone that has follow Gibbs throughout his head coaching career. That's never been his style, and he wins anyway.

As far as our WRs vs. your DBs go ... I think that depends on your pass rush. Some of you may bank on Parcells re-working his defense to compensate for Moss, and that may happen. However, don't forget that in addition to the two new WRs, we added this guy named Al Saunders tothe coaching staff, who I'm guessing may add a few new wrinkles on our end as well to create favorable matchups.

In any event, the Cowboys look pretty strong defensively. I'd expect no less from a Parcells team. Offensively, I'm not so sure. But I guess that's for another thread.

 

[superpunk]

I'd take that wager. You also forgot Mark Carrier, who did a wonderful job at FS, which was a major problem with our secondary for the previous 3-4 seasons.

Also, we are not overhauling the entire team. The core players, to key players who helped the team become 10-6 are still there. Addressing needs through free agency, as you put it, is exactly what the Skins front office ha done. Just because alot of hype has followed it doesn't change anything those players will do for this team. No one wants to address how Lloyd and Randle El aren't upgrades over David Patten and Taylor Jacobs. No, it's easier to just blindly say,"It can't work."

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr.php

Compare Lloyd, and Randle El to Givens. Jacobs was atrocious, no doubt, but didn't Thrash occupy more of the #3 spot? In any case, he had more balls thrown his way.

If you look at that site, which is quite good in terms of statistical evaluation, you'll see that El was ranked 75th, and Lloyd ranked 83rd. Patten was ranked 89.

Huge upgrade.