Dak Can't Throw A WR Open

[lk8701]

Does he need to?

I agree. Josh Rosen can throw guys open which is why the Cowboys should have traded up for him. Dak is a good role player. He doesn't make his teammates better.

 

[Number1]

Dak will carry a 4th round pick *by JJ* rep until the Boys are established contenders

In 2014 and 2016 they produced serious offensive production, over 28 points a game if memory serves me. Dak stepping in for Romo and managing 13 wins was impressive, as were his numbers. Dak also has problem of sometimes playing too good to be true - watch any of the 3 GB games, was he really outplayed?

Yeah, that's high praise, but there's the thing - watch the tape - he often makes it look easy. When he's on, no one is more accurate and 12 rushing TDs in 2 seasons is significant, when Dak runs for a TD the Boys are 10-2.

When he does have issues it's short accuracy (high) and or when he doesn't have time to work progressions.

And there is a key issue, Dak has an almost awesome OL, much better at run block than pass blocking. In some games his protection dipped bad, how bad? in 2017 Dak had the 2nd lowest time to sack ... 2.1 seconds - in other words of the 32 sacks he took on average he didn't have time to get to his 2nd read.

Saying a QB had a bad year after taking 14 sacks in 11 days is kinda ignorant. As were his coaches in not dealing with the OL issues until after the season ended.

But they'e dealt with them this off season. Fleming can hang and Williams is an upgrade. BTW, the Boys may have nabbed the best 3 players at their positions in the draft in LVE, Williams, and Gallup. But I have my doubts any of late rounders amount to much.

The 2018 version of Dak should see more time to throw with more play making ability in his targets. The raw material is there, will they sync? we'll see.
But, I have one concern for Dak this season - who's playing TE?

Yeah, I kinda harp on it but I seriously hope the Boys opt for the best receiving TEs rather than the best blocking TEs or some mediocre hybrid. The odds of finding another Witten are astronomical - finding another Novacek ... Rico looks the part - the raw material is here do the coaches have the sense to use it is the issue.

there's a lot of talk about running more Run/Pass options, your most basic R/P is a dive / TE dump. Like running off tackle or throwing a slant when the Ss come up it's bread and butter to moving the chains in this system. if we go into the 2018 campaign without a play making TE this O will stumble badly at times.

 

[Hadenough]

I agree. Josh Rosen can throw guys open which is why the Cowboys should have traded up for him. Dak is a good role player. He doesn't make his teammates better.

I like Rosen and would of loved to see Dallas trade up for him but nope. The Dak project will continue!

 

[Roadtrip635]

The thing is, the defensive players from opposing teams specifically said it was Dak that they had figured out. It was talked about during a game and then discussed on local sports radio. It's like people are forgetting this and acting like it never happened.

It's also like people forget there are 2 parts to being a deep threat, when our two primary WRs are Dez and TWill it's easy to see the reluctance of throwing deep. The deep threat is diminished when you don't have the players. Even long established dink and dunker, Alex Smith became a very real deep threat last season once Hill was integrated into the offense. We don't have any WR of Hill's caliber, but I would expect to see more deep shots with our new WR additions.

Instead of focusing how deep Dak can throw, maybe our offense needs to focus on what Dak does well, especially when compared to our Romo offense. Romo by nature was a risk taker and more willing and able to take more deep shots. Dak is by nature more cautious, go through progressions and protect the ball. Dak has had it drilled into from day one to protect the ball. This is where our scheme needs to change, under JG our passing game has been based on vertical passing, our WRs played primarily outside the numbers, with Witt playing the middle.

The passing game needs to change towards shorter and intermediate routes, WRs playing more over the middle with slants and crosses, playing more using bunch and pick routes. Dak's strength and the strength of most of the WRs we acquired this season is in these type routes. Offensive schemes like the Saints and Rams would be best suited to the players we have, integrate Zeke and Austin more into the short passing game. The slants, crossing, bunch and pick routes become more effective with the type of WRs we have and the increased emphasis on route running and technique. We don't Witt to run those middle routes anymore and those middle routes became less effective with Witt slowing down, but our scheme didn't change to reflect that. Without that exceptional TE, we should use our WRs to fill that area.

Increasing Zeke and Austin's pass catching will put more pressure on a defense than us merely throwing deep more often. Stretching a defense side to side can be just as effective as stretching them deep, especially when it's Zeke and Austin doing the stretching. As a DC, I would be more worried about Zeke or Austin on the ends than Deonte Thompson going deep. To take full advantage of our player's skill sets our passing philosophy needs to change. Those deep shots become more effective when you have Zeke and Austin catching short outside passes.

 

[mcmvp]

None of that doesn’t mean TOP isn’t important.

TOP isn’t just about points scored. It’s also about less time for the other team to score points and also physically wearing down the opponent, making it easier to score on them in the 4th quarter when it matters most.

TOP isn’t overrated. There’s a reason every successful coach and pro football players themselves talk about TOP and why it’s an important battle to win.

I agree with you. It can be over-rated in some select cases/games. But over the course of a long season it is important. Chip Kelly didn’t believe that ToP was important and look what it did to his defense...they were exhausted. It’s a night and day difference with Pederson since he values it highly. The defense is not on the field as much...and that coupled with how often they rotate d-linemen, they are alway fresh and play more productive snaps.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Dak will carry a 4th round pick *by JJ* rep until the Boys are established contenders

In 2014 and 2016 they produced serious offensive production, over 28 points a game if memory serves me. Dak stepping in for Romo and managing 13 wins was impressive, as were his numbers. Dak also has problem of sometimes playing too good to be true - watch any of the 3 GB games, was he really outplayed?

Yeah, that's high praise, but there's the thing - watch the tape - he often makes it look easy. When he's on, no one is more accurate and 12 rushing TDs in 2 seasons is significant, when Dak runs for a TD the Boys are 10-2.

When he does have issues it's short accuracy (high) and or when he doesn't have time to work progressions.

And there is a key issue, Dak has an almost awesome OL, much better at run block than pass blocking. In some games his protection dipped bad, how bad? in 2017 Dak had the 2nd lowest time to sack ... 2.1 seconds - in other words of the 32 sacks he took on average he didn't have time to get to his 2nd read.

Saying a QB had a bad year after taking 14 sacks in 11 days is kinda ignorant. As were his coaches in not dealing with the OL issues until after the season ended.

But they'e dealt with them this off season. Fleming can hang and Williams is an upgrade. BTW, the Boys may have nabbed the best 3 players at their positions in the draft in LVE, Williams, and Gallup. But I have my doubts any of late rounders amount to much.

The 2018 version of Dak should see more time to throw with more play making ability in his targets. The raw material is there, will they sync? we'll see.
But, I have one concern for Dak this season - who's playing TE?

Yeah, I kinda harp on it but I seriously hope the Boys opt for the best receiving TEs rather than the best blocking TEs or some mediocre hybrid. The odds of finding another Witten are astronomical - finding another Novacek ... Rico looks the part - the raw material is here do the coaches have the sense to use it is the issue.

there's a lot of talk about running more Run/Pass options, your most basic R/P is a dive / TE dump. Like running off tackle or throwing a slant when the Ss come up it's bread and butter to moving the chains in this system. if we go into the 2018 campaign without a play making TE this O will stumble badly at times.

I agree with most of what you said except for TEs. We don't need that exceptional pass catching TE. We can be just as or more effective using WRs to work the short middle as well as using our RBs, especially with 2 RB sets. Instead of our TE running curls and stick routes, using a WR only slants, drags and shallow crosses and RBs with short flare, drag routes, etc. Our offense needs to adjust to the talent we have instead of forcing guys into roles. If we keep the same philosophy our passing game will struggle, if we adjust to the talent we have it should be effective.

 

[InTheZone]

Anyone who knows football and Jones should know that WR are supposed to run good routes and get separation. QB are not taught to throw a guy open, he is suppose to be open. Even the great Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady wait for their guy to get a bit of separation or throw the ball to a spot where only their WR can get to it. Throwing a guy open is just an excuse by WRs to not have to do their job.

you understand that's the same thing and those top QBs do it all the time. Dak has done very little of that. Go watch those other games for a change, it'll change your perception on how often receivers get "wide open" like many seem to claim do except Dez.

 

[Pantone282C]

First training camp practice

Pass the bourbon... Groan...we are truly bored and anxious to get on to it!

 

[Number1]

I agree with most of what you said except for TEs. We don't need that exceptional pass catching TE. We can be just as or more effective using WRs to work the short middle as well as using our RBs, especially with 2 RB sets. Instead of our TE running curls and stick routes, using a WR only slants, drags and shallow crosses and RBs with short flare, drag routes, etc. Our offense needs to adjust to the talent we have instead of forcing guys into roles. If we keep the same philosophy our passing game will struggle, if we adjust to the talent we have it should be effective.

couldn't disagree more, it's easier to run a SLB or SS off the LOS than to block them

the 2 key routes in this system are a WR slant and a TE dump - the whole idea is to force the D to load up on the run or protect the flats

also as of now Hurns looks to be the only big red zone target (with good hands)

many will disagree, I'll take Novacek over Ditka all day - particularly a 280lbs version of Novacek

 

[Verdict]

If this thread stays here I have to wonder what the difference there is between this thread and the Dez threads. My Dez threads need some company in the Drama Zone.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

We've covered this how many times.........

 

[Blackspider214]

Need a #1 WR? Ummm no. In fact quite the opposite. When Dez was out, that was when Dak was at his peak. He has already stated he does not really want a go to guy. Especially not Dez.

 

[Verdict]

We've covered this how many times.........

We have an insatiable appetite.

 

[Verdict]

Need a #1 WR? Ummm no. In fact quite the opposite. When Dez was out, that was when Dak was at his peak. He has already stated he does not really want a go to guy. Especially not Dez.

Who would want a wide receiver who can't catch?

 

[Verdict]

Where is the Dez Sucks button. We need to press that one repeatedly. Dak would look like a superhero and may have already achieved an exception to let him in the hall of fame before retirement if not for Dez.

 

[Roadtrip635]

couldn't disagree more, it's easier to run a SLB or SS off the LOS than to block them

the 2 key routes in this system are a WR slant and a TE dump - the whole idea is to force the D to load up on the run or protect the flats

also as of now Hurns looks to be the only big red zone target (with good hands)

many will disagree, I'll take Novacek over Ditka all day - particularly a 280lbs version of Novacek

Well that's where the issue is "in this system". We don't have an exceptional TE , so we need to change the system. That's exactly why I added, if we keep the same philosophy, the passing game will struggle and the running game with it. The scheme needs to be changed to take advantage of what we do have instead of keeping the same system with sub optimal pieces.

 

[Melonfeud]

You have to ignore the nuts and bolts entirely not to see the significant deficiencies in Dak's game. He's got a long way to go to even be a top 20 quarterback.

Man! I've seen him torqued to specs & zeroed in,,,and Ive seen him,loose,rattling& dinging Maggie's drawers,,,so,The capabilities of greatness are there,,,it's not like we're gunsmithing on a Brandon Weeden in hopes of tuning into a tack driver
Ya know?

 

[Melonfeud]

due mainly to coaching ,playcalling, game planning,
game mgmt, schemes, etc.
Coaches can make a player look bad or good.
look at foles last year, he had 2 bad games, at end of reg season, so the coaches looked at what he did good in the past,
and made plays and game plans based on his strength's and after that he looked fantastic, and was mvp in a SB win.

Coaching matters, and that is a classic example.

Our coaches would have continued trying to make foles fit their plays, and not designed new ones for his strength's.

This is what I hope Dak friendly means, is that they have designed new plays, to take advantage of things dak does do well.
I have doubts, but am hoping.

* I 100% concur on about every composed structured word*

 

[kskboys]

I agree with you. It can be over-rated in some select cases/games. But over the course of a long season it is important. Chip Kelly didn’t believe that ToP was important and look what it did to his defense...they were exhausted. It’s a night and day difference with Pederson since he values it highly. The defense is not on the field as much...and that coupled with how often they rotate d-linemen, they are alway fresh and play more productive snaps.

Houston Oilers lost a playoff game in which they led 35-3 at halftime because they didn't think TOP was important.

Every O that has been built around ignoring TOP has failed.

 

[kskboys]

Man! I've seen him torqued to specs & zeroed in,,,and Ive seen him,loose,rattling& dinging Maggie's drawers,,,so,The capabilities of greatness are there,,,it's not like we're gunsmithing on a Brandon Weeden in hopes of tuning into a tack driver
Ya know?

Yeah, you really have to ignore a lot to not see the potential in Dak's game.