CFZ Dak is Good Enough to Drive the Bus

CCBoy

Well-Known Member
Messages
45,672
Reaction score
21,839
Certainly.....

I looked up the stats to see how Dak's career figures stacked up when he had a lead as opposed to in hurry-up offense when trailing....the findings are quite dramatic.

Dak
Leading <2 min to go - 146 RTG
Leading <4 min to go - 106
Trailing <2 min to go - 55
Trailing <4 - 73

Excellent when he had a lead, but dramatic downturn when chasing. Just for a bit of context: Allen, Stafford and Cousins all had Ratings of over 80 in each of the trailing categories and the differential between leading/trailing remained about 20 pts.

Mr Hyde does seem to come out when the pressure's on and the clocks ticking.
Last season with line and receiving group problems, or through out his whole time as the starter?
 

CCBoy

Well-Known Member
Messages
45,672
Reaction score
21,839
All of the figures for Dak, Cousins, Allen and Stafford all relate to career stats
Thank you Sir...but I'm still seeing this...

Not exactly the most surprising news to report but the Dallas Cowboys roster is widely considered a good one. After gathering 12-wins in back-to-back seasons, a high ranking is fairly expected. Especially since they only got better in the offseason.

Dallas retained all their top players on team-friendly deals and added two high-level players at high-value positions to bolster both sides of the passing game. Stephon Gilmore is the new starting CB and Brandin Cooks is the new starting WR. Most will agree these two players are considerable upgrades over Anthony Brown and Noah Brown (the players they effectively replace in the starting lineup).


If anything, the Dallas Cowboys roster is ranked too low in this 2023 preseason roster ranking.​


https://sportdfw.com/2023/06/05/dallas-cowboys-rated-top-6-roster-2023/



NFL Gameday


Image
Dak Prescott
 

CCBoy

Well-Known Member
Messages
45,672
Reaction score
21,839

Weakness – Passing Game Concepts​

Under Kellen Moore, the offense was one of, if not the best in the league at times, and yet they couldn’t get over the hump. Well, the reason isn’t that hard to figure out when your route tree concept relies on receivers coming back to your quarterback or turning and opening up in front of him. Those concepts made things easier for cornerbacks, safeties, and linebackers to key in on receivers and shrink the field, and forced Prescott to make more tight-window throws. Those tight window throws are really what lead to Prescott’s career high in interceptions last season with 15. To put this in perspective the Cowboys threw a total of 50 deep passes last season compared to 332 short and intermediate passes, the majority being hitch/curl routes, routes that were easier to cover.

Now the Cowboys have moved on from Moore and added receiver deep-threat receiver Brandin Cooks, but it remains to be seen how head coach Mike McCarthy and new offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer will work to change the concepts Moore installed during his time with the team. They’ve talked a good game up to this point, but they’ll need to prove it on the field to get this to become an afterthought.


https://nflspinzone.com/2023/06/05/biggest-strength-weakness-each-nfc-east-team-2023/
 

CowboyoWales

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,264
Reaction score
4,563
Thank you Sir...but I'm still seeing this...

Not exactly the most surprising news to report but the Dallas Cowboys roster is widely considered a good one. After gathering 12-wins in back-to-back seasons, a high ranking is fairly expected. Especially since they only got better in the offseason.

Dallas retained all their top players on team-friendly deals and added two high-level players at high-value positions to bolster both sides of the passing game. Stephon Gilmore is the new starting CB and Brandin Cooks is the new starting WR. Most will agree these two players are considerable upgrades over Anthony Brown and Noah Brown (the players they effectively replace in the starting lineup).


If anything, the Dallas Cowboys roster is ranked too low in this 2023 preseason roster ranking.​


https://sportdfw.com/2023/06/05/dallas-cowboys-rated-top-6-roster-2023/



NFL Gameday


Image
Dak Prescott
I think it would of helped if you'd read the thread, rather than cherry picked a sentence. The comparison to Stafford, Cousins, Allen was in respect of the 'trailing >2mins' and that Dak's stats arent just way inferior to them, unlike those three, his drop off between leading and trailing are dramatic. I used those three as they are the players most compared to Dak.

My whole argument about Dak is that it's his composure in pressure scenario's and that its debatable (but granted, not impossible) that an improvement in weapons or play calling isnt going to overcome that psychological barrier.
 

Buzzbait

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,584
Reaction score
11,503
The defense blitzed, so its in the qb's best interest to get rid of the ball asap. If Dak had went thru reads, found Schultz and got blindsided on the throw by a blitzing player... yall would call him every bad name in the book.

If the def. didnt blitz, yall would have a point.
You're barking up the wrong tree 88, I don't look for excuses to criticize Dak. I've always liked Dak, but that doesn't mean he can do no wrong. He's not elite and in my book he's overpaid, but that doesn't make me a Dak hater. If he's over paid, that's Jerry's fault.
I'm on the fence with Dak, I think he can play as good as the team we surround him with, so I hope that's what we do. He's our QB so I'm on his side. When he's good he's good, but when he's bad, he's bad.
 
Last edited:

CCBoy

Well-Known Member
Messages
45,672
Reaction score
21,839
I think it would of helped if you'd read the thread, rather than cherry picked a sentence. The comparison to Stafford, Cousins, Allen was in respect of the 'trailing >2mins' and that Dak's stats arent just way inferior to them, unlike those three, his drop off between leading and trailing are dramatic. I used those three as they are the players most compared to Dak.

My whole argument about Dak is that it's his composure in pressure scenario's and that its debatable (but granted, not impossible) that an improvement in weapons or play calling isnt going to overcome that psychological barrier.
You assume a good deal here that doesn't approach what was the problem. A stat not applied correctly to an analysis is futility...not being reasonable or specific, not in assumption, but in application.

@NFLGameDay

Image
Dak Prescott

Here is the cruxt of the problem involving Prescott. He was being set up, and not dysfunctional, that a stat might imply.


Image

8:52 PM · Jun 5, 2023

Now there was the football picture of how it was going down on the carpet, without a whipping boy explanation included.

Moore is no longer with the cowboys. Blame the right person. Responsibility is from above and can not be delegated in game directed actions. That's the function of accountability and leadership on the carpet.

Now consider an added burden of injured offensive linemen and a weak receiver group for last season.


He throws a very good deep ball, and that always comes with pressure.
 
Last edited:

Starforever

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,575
Reaction score
5,091
CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
Who is the mechanic of the bus?
What is the bus model?
What is the condition of the bus?
Does the driver know the law?
How good of driver is he in inclement weather?
 

CCBoy

Well-Known Member
Messages
45,672
Reaction score
21,839
On the British Isle, there is a lot of meade consumed...which is from honey.
 

CowboyoWales

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,264
Reaction score
4,563
You assume a good deal here that doesn't approach what was the problem. A stat not applied correctly to an analysis is futility...not being reasonable or specific, not in assumption, but in application.

Here is the cruxt of the problem involving Prescott. He was being set up, and not dysfunctional, that a stat might imply.

Now there was the football picture of how it was going down on the carpet, without a whipping boy explanation included.

Moore is no longer with the cowboys. Blame the right person. Responsibility is from above and can not be delegated in game directed actions. That's the function of accountability and leadership on the carpet.

Now consider an added burden of injured offensive linemen and a weak receiver group for last season.

He throws a very good deep ball, and that always comes with pressure.
Nothing of what you've said actually addressed the point about ........."Trailing with >2 min" and the massive discrepancy between that and his other stats.

The problem with your argument (if indeed it is actually an argument....sounds more like a herb induced collection of words) is that if the main reason is Moore (or indeed Weapons), then there should be a consistency in the stats.
 

CCBoy

Well-Known Member
Messages
45,672
Reaction score
21,839
Nothing of what you've said actually addressed the point about ........."Trailing with >2 min" and the massive discrepancy between that and his other stats.

The problem with your argument (if indeed it is actually an argument....sounds more like a herb induced collection of words) is that if the main reason is Moore (or indeed Weapons), then there should be a consistency in the stats.
The game is played on turf, not in abstract. Ahead, the team's style is already working. If the the Cowboys are behind in the fourth, depending on the strength of the opponent...here the playoffs, then they are already playing Dallas for fools and directing the style being used to failure and putting the Cowboys reaction into the scheme advantage of their defense. Curl ins and short crossing patterns, short patterns, are much easy to disrupt or intercept. C,mon talk football here, 2 minutes does NOT mean failure to control one's own hype or a shorted out player and his observations.

Using a flawed scheme concept against a very good defense, with a barely talented receiver group and offensive line, are the problem. They cause the problems not a short-changed quarterback talent!

There were two charts included that matched total yardage production for the past two seasons as well as comparisons of interceptions passes for a pretty good group of quarterbacks as well.

I assure you Dak Prescott passed muster. Ignore those valid points with recent records? Scheme mismatched along with poorer seperation against a strong defense was the culprit. Going into the season has seen an adapted scheme offensively.
Receivers that can make seperation. And a stronger offensive line group with more healthy talent and depth.

As I see it, two...shoe.
 

CowboyoWales

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,264
Reaction score
4,563
The game is played on turf, not in abstract. Ahead, the team's style is already working. If the the Cowboys are behind in the fourth, depending on the strength of the opponent...here the playoffs, then they are already playing Dallas for fools and directing the style being used to failure and putting the Cowboys reaction into the scheme advantage of their defense. Curl ins and short crossing patterns, short patterns, are much easy to disrupt or intercept. C,mon talk football here, 2 minutes does NOT mean failure to control one's own hype or a shorted out player and his observations.

Using a flawed scheme concept against a very good defense, with a barely talented receiver group and offensive line, are the problem. They cause the problems not a short-changed quarterback talent!

There were two charts included that matched total yardage production for the past two seasons as well as comparisons of interceptions passes for a pretty good group of quarterbacks as well.

I assure you Dak Prescott passed muster. Ignore those valid points with recent records? Scheme mismatched along with poorer seperation against a strong defense was the culprit. Going into the season has seen an adapted scheme offensively.
Receivers that can make seperation. And a stronger offensive line group with more healthy talent and depth.

As I see it, two...shoe.
:huh:.... you still dont get it......eg "POORER SERPERATION AGAINST A STRONG DEFENSE"..........the 55 Rating for "Trailing >2 min to go", is his CAREER figure, spanning 7 years, not the latest 49ers game (s).
 

CCBoy

Well-Known Member
Messages
45,672
Reaction score
21,839
:huh:.... you still dont get it......eg "POORER SERPERATION AGAINST A STRONG DEFENSE"..........the 55 Rating for "Trailing >2 min to go", is his CAREER figure, spanning 7 years, not the latest 49ers game (s).
Jesus Christ...players get better over time when given a strong team, required for any team's success.

Dak isn't bound by any statistic that supposedly affects winnability. Ask Minnesota if their quarterback has improved? I don't care if pee rates have steadily increased as well. The window for the past two seasons have been supplied that don't lie about Prescott is a good quarterback. One of the best. The Cowboys have two consecutive 12 win seasons...that coincide with the two quoted sets of statistics as well. Your use of 2 and claim that Prescott turns into a coward and panics when comes under fire...is getting unreasonable and off target.

He is going to have yet another 12 win season.

Enough listening to: today is brought to you by the number two!

Let's get real, here and now. From the NFC, which team is going to make it to the Super Bowl...THIS season?

Cowboys
Eagles
49'ers
 

CCBoy

Well-Known Member
Messages
45,672
Reaction score
21,839
:huh:.... you still dont get it......eg "POORER SERPERATION AGAINST A STRONG DEFENSE"..........the 55 Rating for "Trailing >2 min to go", is his CAREER figure, spanning 7 years, not the latest 49ers game (s).
Corolate between players on team, coaches, and production and reasons reduced by all effecting a reasonable cause effect limited to just a quarterback whom you still are placing blame upon for me to swallow.

There is NOTHING wrong with my observation, understanding, nor acceptance of you abstractly making a hypothesis that just is not TRUE.

No, I'm not buying your song and dance here, for a moment. Your excuse directed at both Prescott and myself is as full of crap as a pasture full of cows! :popcorn:

Now explain, does Dak need to release the ball sooner, or have more efficient routes where there will now be openings?
 

CCBoy

Well-Known Member
Messages
45,672
Reaction score
21,839
CowboysWale, if you are looking for real reasons why Dallas didn't beat San Francisco and go farther in the playoffs, your real argument, then explain this aspect:

A large contingent of Dallas Cowboys fans are convinced the team would have deated the San Francisco 49ers in the playoffs had Tony Pollard not been injured. While Dallas would have survived without Pollard against most teams, his departure was a death-knell going up against the 49ers' vaunted defense.

https://thelandryhat.com/posts/tony-pollard-next-gen-stats-cowboys-urgency-rb

Could this running group leave the same possibility in the picture this year as well?

Oh, and the optimum pass release is considered to be 2.5 seconds, and Prescott rated 12th at doing this release projection. He was more efficient in extended time.
 
Last edited:

blueblood70

Well-Known Member
Messages
39,332
Reaction score
27,335
You're barking up the wrong tree 88, I don't look for excuses to criticize Dak. I've always liked Dak, but that doesn't mean he can do no wrong. He's not elite and in my book he's overpaid, but that doesn't make me a Dak hater. If he's over paid, that's Jerry's fault.
I'm on the fence with Dak, I think he can play as good as the team we surround him with, so I hope that's what we do. He's our QB so I'm on his side. When he's good he's good, but when he's bad, he's bad.
no its the markets' fault, you have top 10-12 qb that the cost they aren't easily replaced. Try harder daks top 10 his pay is round what now 8-10?? players like Daniel jones now in that payday area code.. it happens. Better to say most qbs are overpaid because the top 5 highest paid didn't even make the playoffs last year.
 
Top