Dak on Hurts contract

[CATCH17]

Your original point was it was damning for Dak that he couldn't win on his rookie deal bc theoretically he has more talent around him to work with.

Yet....the "Elite" qbs also could not win it with theoretically more talent around them but because you like the way their butts look in their tights...you think it validates their huges contracts?
Am i following this right?

Yes because the QBs with Dak’s skill level usually win it on their rookie deal and then never win it again.

 

[MrPhil]

I cannot fault players for trying to maximize their earnings. That said, don't turn around and tell me how much you care about winning.

 

[Ken]

Yes because the QBs with Dak’s skill level usually win it on their rookie deal and then never win it again.

Small sample size.

Also, few if any of the qbs in those pools tried building their teams the way the Cowboys are thru almost exclusively the draft.

 

[CATCH17]

I cannot fault players for trying to maximize their earnings. That said, don't turn around and tell me how much you care about winning.

It’s not the player fault.

It’s the organization.

I think most of these teams know if they pay and keep decent QBs they will get decent results which means coaches and GMs keep their jobs.

 

[nate dizzle]

In before this goes down hill like intended.

So what, who cares. It is one of those topics that will vary as we all know.

All are way overpaid, and rather if one feels it hurts the team or not in the end they are all overpaid.

I have no problem with players getting paid. If it wasn't going to them it would just be going into ownership pockets and let's be honest, over the past 30 years with massive TV deals, they deserve their share since they are the ones that bring in those deals. Nobody is paying to watch owner's meetings or subpar football (looking at you XFL and USFL). The main issues are players being overpaid according to their slice of the salary cap pie. If you're taking up a giant chunk of the pie, you leave less for everyone else which is prohibitive when trying to build a championship team unless you have a front office and coaches that know what they're doing. QB's taking up 30% of the pie aren't likely to have top flight WR's and Offensive linemen with a defense that holds teams to 14 points a game.

 

[khiladi]

As with any good inequitable class structure it does not rely on the lower class to remain compliant. It's very existence ensures compliance. For every over inflated inequitable class structure there will be an underlying layer of poverty that facilitates. 40 million dollars worth of "wealth" does not just appear out of thin air. It is typically created at the expense of others. Ultra rich do not exist without ultra poor. It is a symbiotic relationship.

Damn bro, chill out

But this is a really good comment.

 

[khiladi]

Allen, Herbert, and Burrow have elite talent and the ability carry their team and not get carried by there team.

Hurts is a system QB and they screwed their team. Dak’s better than him.

You pay elite talent elite money.

Dak’s not an elite talent.

Now mention market value.

I agree with everything, except Dak is better than Hurts. This was obvious his first couple seasons, but he looks better than Dak now, though you are right.. vastly over-rated

 

[CATCH17]

I agree with everything, except Dak is better than Hurts. This was obvious his first couple seasons, but he looks better than Dak now, though you are right.. vastly over-rated

Hurts is a system QB that takes advantage of man to man matchups.

 

[khiladi]

Hurts is a system QB that takes advantage of man to man matchups.

Basically Dak his whole career. I agree, it’s just that Hurts mechanics, escapability and touch are way better than Dak..

 

[Hadenough]

Dak has been paid and hopefully Jerry realizes it was a mistake. The search for a true franchise must start now.

 

[DandyDon52]

this made no sense.

ok they both care more about how much $ they make than winning a SB.
Both tend to think getting in playoffs is the main goal and a big accomplishment.

 

[CowboyoWales]

Dak has been paid and hopefully Jerry realizes it was a mistake. The search for a true franchise must start now.

What Dak surely understands is that his circumstances aren't a direct comparison to Hurts/Jackson's. As you say we're still paying off the residual effects of the last deal and restructures.

Interestingly:

Hurts CAP hit = $13 (2024), $21 (2025), $31 (2026) = $65m
Dak CAP Prorated Bonus outstanding from existing contract (2024 onwards) = $61m

Could someone explain how or whether we can:
a) spread the outstanding PRORATED BONUS (for years 2024/Void years) into any new contract years
b) has to be paid as a full CAP hit of $61m in 2024.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

ok they both care more about how much $ they make than winning a SB.
Both tend to think getting in playoffs is the main goal and a big accomplishment.

and you say that because? as if they are the first players ever to demand money...don't forget Emmitt held out to get a contract he wanted and he still played, and went on to win superbowls... there is plenty of other examples. one has to separate the business side from the football side.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Allen, Herbert, and Burrow have elite talent and the ability carry their team and not get carried by there team.

Hurts is a system QB and they screwed their team. Dak’s better than him.

You pay elite talent elite money.

Dak’s not an elite talent.

Now mention market value.

Herbert hasn't carried his team. one can not question if Allen is doing it, given his only run that made people fall in love with him was during the covid season. he has fizzled since.

they do throw a pretty spiral and have strong arms. perhaps that's your infatuation.

you pay money to what the market is. market value has nothing to do with fan perception of market value.
this notion of pay money to elite talent only is a fan created fantasy that doesn't exist in the real world.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Yes because the QBs with Dak’s skill level usually win it on their rookie deal and then never win it again.

Flacco? ELi? Johnson? Foles?

and plenty of others who played in the superbowl.

don't you hate to be proven wrong so many times. do a little work before you post.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I cannot fault players for trying to maximize their earnings. That said, don't turn around and tell me how much you care about winning.

the two have nothing to do with each other. its a fan made up fallacy that because I ask for money, I don't care about success. are there a few that are that way? yes. but to generalize that every player who asks for money doesn't care about winning is just not true

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I have no problem with players getting paid. If it wasn't going to them it would just be going into ownership pockets and let's be honest, over the past 30 years with massive TV deals, they deserve their share since they are the ones that bring in those deals. Nobody is paying to watch owner's meetings or subpar football (looking at you XFL and USFL). The main issues are players being overpaid according to their slice of the salary cap pie. If you're taking up a giant chunk of the pie, you leave less for everyone else which is prohibitive when trying to build a championship team unless you have a front office and coaches that know what they're doing. QB's taking up 30% of the pie aren't likely to have top flight WR's and Offensive linemen with a defense that holds teams to 14 points a game.

you have to manage the cap on a year to year basis. its not about averages. a lot of contracts sound large, even maybe large, but contracts get reworked, money spread and everyone knows the cap is growing (at least for now). teams sign the players they drafted and are good. rarely does a good player hit the market and is available, often FAs that are older, on the down side of their career, injury prone, or I have alternatives on the team so I can move on. you don't build a team through FAs. you fill gaps here and there.

 

[CowboyoWales]

Flacco? ELi? Johnson? Foles?

and plenty of others who played in the superbowl.

don't you hate to be proven wrong so many times. do a little work before you post.

As has been explained to you before, a more accurate accessment is about the QB's CAP%.
Dak's CAP hit from his last contract hasn't really hit yet....maybe you can answer my question in post #92?
The reason I ask it is that unlike most contracts which involve cheap initial years as due to the Prorated Signing Bonus, we'll be stuck with Dak's $61m.
Now yes we can spread Dak's money, but he's going into the 30 year season, so we aren't looking at the same sort of Hurts deal.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

What Dak surely understands is that his circumstances aren't a direct comparison to Hurts/Jackson's. As you say we're still paying off the residual effects of the last deal and restructures.

Interestingly:

Hurts CAP hit = $13 (2024), $21 (2025), $31 (2026) = $65m
Dak CAP Prorated Bonus outstanding from existing contract (2024 onwards) = $61m

Could someone explain how or whether we can:
a) spread the outstanding PRORATED BONUS (for years 2024/Void years) into any new contract years
b) has to be paid as a full CAP hit of $61m in 2024.

You can’t further spread proration, once it’s set it’s set. So any new contract will just build cap hits on top of the previous proration.

The 61m$ is not all proration, ~30m$ of it is salary and 30 is previous proration . So if you prorate that new salary, it’d get reduced to 36m$, the floor of what his 2024 cap hit will be. And then the extension will have a signing bonus that will add on top of that. I would guess his 2024 cap hit is around 45m$ after the new deal. That would be the result of 5 different signing bonuses hitting that year, the saved money from 2021-2023 creeping up

 

[MyFairLady]

Hurts is a system QB that takes advantage of man to man matchups.

IMHO being a system QB is a good thing. Dak was a system QB in 2016 and he was incredible. The problem is that we paid him 40 million and threw away the system. Hurts is going to continue to be incredible as long as he can remain healthy and sticks to the system. I would be on board with Dak at 40 million provided we ran the 2016 offense and he was a threat to run every play. Dak thinks he is a "real" QB now and that is the problem. If Hurts suddenly decides he is Joe Montana the Eagles will be in for a rough ride.