Jimcz
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All I'm saying is there are QB's whose individual talent were never questioned. Amongst that group some may have gotten the ultimate prize, some didn't. But no one ever felt it was because they were the weak link. Those are your Mount Rushmore QB's.Look man he's one of several examples I'm giving you of people who didn't peak truly till late in their career as far as what we're judging Prescott on is playoff success Super Bowl success I was just pointing out that even John Elway threw a ton of interceptions in his career which may or may not have held him back until they ran the ball more till they had a better running back. How's that hard to understand I'm not trying to say that Prescott gonna be Peyton Manning or John Elway I'm saying that he's already played great stat wise he's already ranked top ten some of us see him as number six in his own peers but his story is yet to be written like many of those examples I'm trying to point out. Yes the light must click and the team must be fully put together to win a championship but to say he went to a Super Bowl or had some playoff success before Terrell Davis and a change in philosophy.
that's like saying Jimmy Garoppolo, Jared Goff, Trent dilfer, Colin Kaepernick, Nick Foles, Flacco, Brad johnson, those are examples of quarterbacks that went to Super Bowls....
are they as good as John Elway or were their teams so good they can cover up a quarterback like say Jim McMahon who was a spare part??? dude I mean if somehow you think that him winning a Super Bowl or even being there made him special, like better than Prescott then you'd be severely mistaken that's my point this is his and it will always be a team game. I think Prescott's better than any of those names I just pointed out maybe a fine line but it goes to show you if you can put together not just a great regular season team but a team that actually shows up and plays in the playoffs the same way Prescott would have more success the same with Tony Romo.
with Dak, We're pointing out that his stats and his win percentage and all that put together says that if he was able to be on a team like Matthew Stafford got like on the with the Rams and some of these other names I just mentioned, he probably would have a Super Bowl by now..
he can play within the structure of a really good team that shows up and plays in the playoffs... our team has been crippled or underwhelming when we get up against the 49ers or a team with a great defense, our offensive line and run game disappears. we get outcopahed and outplayed , fine line those one score games..
we never ask Troy Aikman and Roger Staubach to play without a run game without an offensive line and without a really good coaching mind that makes adjustments and calls plays in a game to actually try to win. That's all I'm saying nobody's projecting HOF status, but he's already a great quarterback, he's already a franchise quarterback with some story left to tell that's all I'm saying.
In week 1 he will become the 1st QB in history to get 25,000 passing yards & 1,500 rushing yards in his first 100 games that never led his team to the divisional round of the playoffs.All I'm saying is there are QB's whose individual talent were never questioned. Amongst that group some may have gotten the ultimate prize, some didn't. But no one ever felt it was because they were the weak link. Those are your Mount Rushmore QB's.
You can point to a lot of QB's after that group and debate exactly how good they were. Some were really good players .... but maybe not the best under playoff pressure. Some seemed to find ways to win in the biggest situations even though they might not ordinarily be thought of as elite talents. Eli for example was a better big game player than every Sunday player.
Stats alone don't put you in either of the above categories. You've got to prove yourself in the toughest moments. So far Dak has not. Say what you will about Goff, Garoppolo, Flacco, Foles, Johnson & Stafford but they made plays to get their team thru to the big game and 4 of the 6 ultimately hoisted the trophy. Getting your team there has a value that is significant & can't be overlooked.
That's interesting that you're blind to the fact that we've had quarterbacks throwing to the other team since the beginning in 1960That's great and all, but we have a qb throwing to the other team.
Do they pass out rings for that?
Roger is Roger, saying that literally your trying to compare Dak's worst year in most things to Rogers best years... what does this prove? The OP is using a chart that compares all QB's past and present.. obviously this shows SOME things not all but its more for the "Dak Sucks" crowdFun stats:
Roger Staubach lead the entire NFL in passer rating 4 times in his career.
That includes 1978 when he was 36 and lead the NFL with an 84.9 passer rating
That season, his 3.9% INT rate was the 5th lowest in the NFL
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1978/passing.htm
Dak Prescott has never lead the NFL in passer rating and he averages about 10th or 11th over his career
His passer rating of 91.1 was 16th in the NFL last year
His 3.8% INT rate was the worst in the NFL with second place being 3.5%.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/passing.htm
So, was Dak Prescott last year better than Roger Staubach near his peak or have the rules changed that much?
The chart does nothing realistic to balance the differences in eras and rules changes, but this sure does:Roger is Roger, saying that literally your trying to compare Dak's worst year in most things to Rogers best years... what does this prove? The OP is using a chart that compares all QB's past and present.. obviously this shows SOME things not all but its more for the "Dak Sucks" crowd
Game over.Fun stats:
Roger Staubach lead the entire NFL in passer rating 4 times in his career.
That includes 1978 when he was 36 and lead the NFL with an 84.9 passer rating
That season, his 3.9% INT rate was the 5th lowest in the NFL
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1978/passing.htm
Dak Prescott has never lead the NFL in passer rating and he averages about 10th or 11th over his career
His passer rating of 91.1 was 16th in the NFL last year
His 3.8% INT rate was the worst in the NFL with second place being 3.5%.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/passing.htm
So, was Dak Prescott last year better than Roger Staubach near his peak or have the rules changed that much?
He may ... plenty of good QB's not many HOF QB's... if every QB was great then none of them are... right?And yet if his career ended today, there is 0% he is considered HOF worthy.... LOL, that's how insignificant those stats are. Maybe he will join the other potential HOF Dalton, Cousins, Carr, Goff, and all those other legends.
To show the evolution of the game, Vinnie Testaverde was 8th all time in yds passing when he retired. So, he's a top 10 all time QB?This means nothing. Almost all of todays quarterbacks are putting up crazy numbers in this soft league with too many rules that make it easy to rack up stats.
As ksk pointed out, Andy Dalton is about to pass Joe Montana and Dan Fouts, which is silly.
Fantasy Football dorks only see football through numbers because they have no idea what they're watching.
Wish they'd lock them all except one.Very frustrating that a superbly written piece in a thread opened by Khiladi highlighting the deficiencies by Dak Prescott was locked yet there's countless biased threads opened and remain live jazzing up his empty calories. Embarrassing.
Game over for what?The chart does nothing realistic to balance the differences in eras and rules changes, but this sure does:
Game over.
That's how QBs need to be viewed - compared to their contemporaries. The old guys are going to keep moving down the all-time list because passing in 2023 versus passing in 1978 are not comparable. The rules have changed significantly in favor of the passing game.Fun stats:
Roger Staubach lead the entire NFL in passer rating 4 times in his career.
That includes 1978 when he was 36 and lead the NFL with an 84.9 passer rating
That season, his 3.9% INT rate was the 5th lowest in the NFL
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1978/passing.htm
Dak Prescott has never lead the NFL in passer rating and he averages about 10th or 11th over his career
His passer rating of 91.1 was 16th in the NFL last year
His 3.8% INT rate was the worst in the NFL with second place being 3.5%.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/passing.htm
So, was Dak Prescott last year better than Roger Staubach near his peak or have the rules changed that much?
For sure, and ultimatley Roger and Troy had the 2 best teams this franchise has ever built and its not really close.. Thats not a knock on them its just a fact.. they are both great and deserve all they earned.That's how QBs need to be viewed - compared to their contemporaries. The old guys are going to keep moving down the all-time list because passing in 2023 versus passing in 1978 are not comparable. The rules have changed significantly in favor of the passing game.
The debate will roll on, but the reason Staubach and Aikman are held in higher regard than the other Dallas QBs is obvious - playoff successes. No one compares Aikman passing stats to Romo and Dak in any reasonable fashion. I don't even recall Aikman's stats. I remember him hitting Harper in stride to finish off the 49ers then going on to win MVP in the Super Bowl. Playing big in the biggest moments means more to me than regular season stats, and it's not even close.
Ok, I'll bite. Romo could easily succeed with Troy's teams, but Troy would have been maimed by year 3 with Tony's teams.For sure, and ultimatley Roger and Troy had the 2 best teams this franchise has ever built and its not really close.. Thats not a knock on them its just a fact.. they are both great and deserve all they earned.