Dallas vs. Miami... Who wins the NBA Finals? (Heat wins series 4-2)

[The30YardSlant]

Terrible, terrible ending. The Spurs series was bad, but this is the FIRST Mavericks game I've ever wtached where I can there are no ands, ifs, or buts, the refs STOLE this from Dallas.

Let's forget for a second the phantom call that sent Wade to the FT line with 1.9 seconds left, a "foul" in which Dirk Noqitzki DID NOT EVEN TOUCH WADE!!! Look at the front page on the DMN, Dirk isnt even close to "pushing him" as Wade said. Josh Howard pulled back and is also not touching Wade. The ONLY contact is Wade's right knee sitting on top of Devin harris' knee, however Wade INITIATED THAT CONTACT and it had no effect on his shot. It wasnt that it was a bad call for the situation, it simply wasnt a foul.

Let's forget for a second the timeout situation, in which Danny Crawford, the ref Howard was talking to, overruled the timeout but then the ref ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COURT said it was a timeout.

Let's talk about the start of the last play with 9.1 seconds left. Wade was running towards half-court for the inbounds, stopped, then lept over the mid-court line and caught the ball in mid air and came down on the other side of half-court. That is a back court violation at any level of basketball, you cannot establish yourself in the front court and then leap over the line and catch it in mid air in the backcourt. It should have been Dallas ball with 9 seconds left, all but ending the game.

 

[SA_Gunslinger]

This series has gotten out of hand. Shaq demolishes and bangs into Dallas players and don't get called for fouls. Yet they suspend Stack for 1 game for commiting a hard foul which wasn't even flagrant.


It goes to show how really twisted and corrupt the NBA has really become. Even that last drive to the basket by Wade wasn't even considered a foul by Nowinski and the refs called it. I want this to be a hard fought series. But its clearly shows the bias the refs and other powers that be have in wanting Miami to win.

believe it or not, i'm actually pulling for the mavs.....but as a spurs fan i must admit i do find it amusing that the mavs fans are suddenly crying "foul" now that the calls aren't going their way.

the refs aren't what bothers me about today's nba....it's all the whiny fans (from several teams, spurs included) who can't except defeat without crying like 4 year olds about the calls.

 

[The30YardSlant]

believe it or not, i'm actually pulling for the mavs.....but as a spurs fan i must admit i do find it amusing that the mavs fans are suddenly crying "foul" now that the calls aren't going their way.

the refs aren't what bothers me about today's nba....it's all the whiny fans (from several teams, spurs included) who can't except defeat without crying like 4 year olds about the calls.

This isnt a "well, it might have been the refs fault" or anything like that, it's a fact. That was an undisputeable back-court violation with 9.1 seconds left per the NBA rule book, if the refs call what was an obvious FACT, Dallas wins.

If you jump from the front court into back court and catch the ball without coming down, you technically caught the ball in the front court and landed in the back court. That's a violation, simple as that. You can argue the semantics of what is and isnt a foul call, you cant argue that was a piss poor no call on a play that a YMCA ref would know to call.

 

[The30YardSlant]

And, just for arguements sake, where is the foul?

Keep in mind that Dirk's hand is NOT on his back as it appearsa, the reverse angle proves it wasnt.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Let's talk about the start of the last play with 9.1 seconds left. Wade was running towards half-court for the inbounds, stopped, then lept over the mid-court line and caught the ball in mid air and came down on the other side of half-court. That is a back court violation at any level of basketball, you cannot establish yourself in the front court and then leap over the line and catch it in mid air in the backcourt. It should have been Dallas ball with 9 seconds left, all but ending the game.

I'm a b-ball ref and you would be wrong as to this particular situation.

On an inbounds play, they can toss the ball anywhere on the court to get it into play...backcourt or frontcourt. The only way it would be a backcourt violation is if the ball is already established in the front court and someone passed the ball to Wade and he was jumping front the backcourt into the front.

I only saw the first half of the game, because I fell asleep. But for the most part, I thought the refs in this game was consistent. They definitely called it tighter on both teams...whether you agree w/the calls or not.

 

[WoodysGirl]

And, just for arguements sake, where is the foul?

Keep in mind that Dirk's hand is NOT on his back as it appearsa, the reverse angle proves it wasnt.

Foul might have been called on Dirk, but it was actually on Harris or whoever that was trying to guard Wade. It started w/the hand check that wasn't called and as Wade attempted to go around the Mavs player in his effot to contain Wade, stuck his knee out which initiated the contact. That's a block.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I'm a b-ball ref and you would be wrong as to this particular situation.

On an inbounds play, they can toss the ball anywhere on the court to get it into play...backcourt or frontcourt. The only way it would be a backcourt violation is if the ball is already established in the front court and someone passed the ball to Wade and he was jumping front the backcourt into the front.

I only saw the first half of the game, because I fell asleep. But for the most part, I thought the refs in this game was consistent. They definitely called it tighter on both teams...whether you agree w/the calls or not.

I agree, this is true, but NOT in this situation. I've played basketball since I was 6, and as a PG i've been called for this more than once. He can run INTO the backcourt to catch it, or he cant jump over, land, and catch it, but he CANNOT establish himself in the front court, jump over, catch it in mid air, and land on the toher wside, That is over and bacl.

Think about it like this, if you leap for a ball in the air going out of bounds, you are still in play UNTIL you land on the out of bounds line. Same thing here. You are in the front court until you land in the back court, thus he caught the ball whilst established in the front court, and landed in the back court. Violation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jefurxvjneM

It's pretty obvious he did it

 

[Danny White]

What really cost the Mavs were the clutch free throws missed down the stretch by Howard and Nowitski. That had to be karma for the embarrasing "hack-a-Shaq" strategy.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Foul might have been called on Dirk, but it was actually on Harris or whoever that was trying to guard Wade. It started w/the hand check that wasn't called and as Wade attempted to go around the Mavs player in his effot to contain Wade, stuck his knee out which initiated the contact. That's a block.

The hand check was there, yes. However, they didnt call the foul there, so it is moot.

As for the knee, Harris is simply running, he doesnt stick out his knee. Wade initiates the contact by throwing his knee into Harris.

Either way, that is not a call you make to decide game 5 of the NBA Finals.

 

[The30YardSlant]

What really cost the Mavs were the clutch free throws missed down the stretch by Howard and Nowitski. That had to be karma for the embarrasing "hack-a-Shaq" strategy.

I agree, the game would not have been in doubt had they hit then. That doesnt change factual blown calls.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Hell, after slowing it down, I just noticed, it doesnt matter where he ewas established, he physically caught the ball in the front court and then went into the backcourt:

http://img136.*************/my.php?image=33nc.jpg

 

[Danny White]

I agree, this is true, but NOT in this situation. I've played basketball since I was 6, and as a PG i've been called for this more than once. He can run INTO the backcourt to catch it, or he cant jump over, land, and catch it, but he CANNOT establish himself in the front court, jump over, catch it in mid air, and land on the toher wside, That is over and bacl.

Think about it like this, if you leap for a ball in the air going out of bounds, you are still in play UNTIL you land on the out of bounds line. Same thing here. You are in the front court until you land in the back court, thus he caught the ball whilst established in the front court, and landed in the back court. Violation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jefurxvjneM

It's pretty obvious he did it

That actually makes a lot of sense. I think you're right there, although I would have been shocked to see it called.

I can see how this would be very frustrating for Mavs fans though... two marginal calls (the foul and the TO) go against you in the final seconds -- both were calls where the refs could have ignored it, while the one marginal call on Miami's play is ignored.

 

[WoodysGirl]

The hand check was there, yes. However, they didnt call the foul there, so it is moot.

As for the knee, Harris is simply running, he doesnt stick out his knee. Wade initiates the contact by throwing his knee into Harris.

Either way, that is not a call you make to decide game 5 of the NBA Finals.

Whether you feel it should've been called in the NBA finals is irrelevant. If it's a foul and the refs see it, then it should be called. Wade didn't initiate the contact. Sorry. In the gif you posted, I see Wade going around him and your guy sticking his knee out as he gets past him. The call shouldn't have been made on Dirk, but there was foul.

 

[The30YardSlant]

That actually makes a lot of sense. I think you're right there, although I would have been shocked to see it called.

I can see how this would be very frustrating for Mavs fans though... two marginal calls (the foul and the TO) go against you in the final seconds -- both were calls where the refs could have ignored it, while the one marginal call on Miami's play is ignored.

And let's not forget the stiff arm Wade gives Terry along the right sideline as he's driving for that last shot.

I have a stong feeling the Mavs will get a few "questionable calls" to go there way in Dallas on Tuesday and Thursday.

 

[The30YardSlant]

The love Dwyane Wade is getting from the refs is ridiculous. Avery needs to put in Mbenga in game 6 and have him put Wade on his backside a few times and let him know what a real foul is.

In the African league in which Mbenga grew up in, it was only a foul per the rules if it drew blood (really, not joking). Those guys throw each other in the front row in some of those games. Mbenga has been our "message" guy this year. He blocked Kobe's shot and slammed him to the floor in the game in Dallas that Kobe only score 18 or so. He threw Steve Nash's shot back at him so hard in game 2 of the Western Finals that it gave him a baseball sized knot on his head.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I agree, this is true, but NOT in this situation. I've played basketball since I was 6, and as a PG i've been called for this more than once. He can run INTO the backcourt to catch it, or he cant jump over, land, and catch it, but he CANNOT establish himself in the front court, jump over, catch it in mid air, and land on the toher wside, That is over and bacl.

Think about it like this, if you leap for a ball in the air going out of bounds, you are still in play UNTIL you land on the out of bounds line. Same thing here. You are in the front court until you land in the back court, thus he caught the ball whilst established in the front court, and landed in the back court. Violation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jefurxvjneM

It's pretty obvious he did it

Even looking at that, it's still not a backcourt violation. He didn't get possession of the ball in the frontcourt and then go into the backcourt. The ball wasn't established on either side of the court on the inbounds pass.

When he caught it and established possession, he was in the backcourt. It would have been different if he'd caught the ball in the front court, landed, bounced or did anything to establish that the ball was in the front court. He didn't.

It's not a violation.

As for hoping whether more "questionable" calls go the Mavs way when you guys get back to Dallas. Just for the integrity of the game, I'd hope not.

My thing is, the refs shouldn't dictate the outcome of the game and for the most part, they don't.

Teams have to score more than the other team. Make the necessary free throws. Hit the open shots. Don't blow point blank layups. Just that simple.

 

[Yeagermeister]

That was a flagrant foul on Shaq. It doesn't matter is he's 350 lbs. Stack went for his head then the ball. Now was it bad enough for a suspension I don't know. As for the Wade backcourt I agree with WG it was not a backcourt and maybe Dallas needs to play a little better defense next time. On the TO a ref has to grant a TO if the player asks for it. Howard looks at the ref signals for a TO and it's granted then he tries to take it back. The ref made the right call.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Even looking at that, it's still not a backcourt violation. He didn't get possession of the ball in the frontcourt and then go into the backcourt. The ball wasn't established on either side of the court on the inbounds pass.

When he caught it and established possession, he was in the backcourt. It would have been different if he'd caught the ball in the front court, landed, bounced or did anything to establish that the ball was in the front court. He didn't.

It's not a violation.

As for hoping whether more "questionable" calls go the Mavs way when you guys get back to Dallas. Just for the integrity of the game, I'd hope not.

My thing is, the refs shouldn't dictate the outcome of the game and for the most part, they don't.

Teams have to score more than the other team. Make the necessary free throws. Hit the open shots. Don't blow point blank layups. Just that simple.

Per the NBA rule book, it's a violation:

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_10.html?nav=ArticleList

A player shall not be the first to touch a ball which he or a teammate caused to go from frontcourt to backcourt while his team was in control of the ball.

What this means, because the inbounder, Gary Payton, was in the front court and he threw it into the back court, the only way the Wade can catch it is to establish himself in the backcourt prior to catching it. He did not do that, so what it equates to is Gary Payton throwing the ball across the midcourt line bewithout a defender touching it and without having a player established behind the line.

Let's not forget that Wade caught the ball in the frontcourt and sailed into the backcourt as well. That is even more clear cut.

And you know how this series will go. The refs will ehlp Dallas in game 6 so the NBA gets a 7 game finals, then they will let the players decide it. I GURANTEE you that Wade wont get that call in game 7.

 

[The30YardSlant]

That was a flagrant foul on Shaq. It doesn't matter is he's 350 lbs. Stack went for his head then the ball. Now was it bad enough for a suspension I don't know. As for the Wade backcourt I agree with WG it was not a backcourt and maybe Dallas needs to play a little better defense next time. On the TO a ref has to grant a TO if the player asks for it. Howard looks at the ref signals for a TO and it's granted then he tries to take it back. The ref made the right call.

How can you play good defense when:

1: Wade commits a backcourt violation (it was per the NBA rule book, whether or not you choose to admit it doesnt matter)

2: Wade stiffarms a defender into the front row

3: Wade palms the ball on the crossover in the corner

4: Wade takes 3 steps (one step and a jumpstop) on his way to the basket

5: The refs call, at best, a very light bump from Harris a foul that might win the series for Miami

So, Wade committed three turnovers and an offensive foul the span of 7.2 seconds and not one was called. I could have gotton to the basket in that situation to if they let me travel, push off, and palm it.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Per the NBA rule book, it's a violation:

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_10.html?nav=ArticleList



What this means, because the inbounder, Gary Payton, was in the front court and he threw it into the back court, the only way the Wade can catch it is to establish himself in the backcourt prior to catching it. He did not do that, so what it equates to is Gary Payton throwing the ball across the midcourt line bewithout a defender touching it and without having a player established behind the line.

Let's not forget that Wade caught the ball in the frontcourt and sailed into the backcourt as well. That is even more clear cut.

And you know how this series will go. The refs will ehlp Dallas in game 6 so the NBA gets a 7 game finals, then they will let the players decide it. I GURANTEE you that Wade wont get that call in game 7.

Again that rule is only if the ball is already established in the frontcourt, not on inbound plays. Inbound plays are governed differently.

I'm actually looking for the rule now on throw-ins and inbound play. When I find it, I'll let you know.

But don't be so sure the NBA is gonna help the Mavs so that it can go 7 games. It doesn't work like that. The teams have to play the games. And from what I've seen. The Mavs have lost their composure and not sticking to their game. They're confidence is shaken. Going back to Dallas should help, but I just find it funny, that the focus is so much on the refs and not the play of the team. Mavs are clearly the more talented team. They have more depth. And yet, they haven't been able to close things out.