Darren Waller fumbled that ball

[boysbeyond4ever]

Ask dez if a third step counts!!!

Don't waste your time with him - he either hates the Cowboys, has an obsession with defending football of officials, or maybe both. Plus he seems to think these discussions are personal manhood contests of some kind. He has nothing credible or objective to offer..

It's like his insistence that Waller was already headed up the field when he caught the ball. This is simply dishonest on his part given his two requirements not to be headed up the field - the replay shows clearly Waller had his back to the defender Kearse when he caught the ball thrown slightly behind him rather than out in front of him as intended, and as a result he was also running parallel to the sidelines not up the field, as he would have been absolutely correct had the ball been thrown when and where it was supposed to be. In fact the only reason Kearse even got the chance to make that play was Waller had to slow up for the ball and then began his turn closer to the hashmark because the poor throw allowed Kearse to close down. If that ball is out i front of Waller then Waller just follows his own momentum into the turn up filed closer to the sideline and withmore momentum and speed for a big gainer..

The only reason that didn't happen is the throw was off and behind Waller and he couldn't turn up the field as he would have been able to. It was absolutely a catch and fumble. They screwed up badly in New York.. The mystery is given their access to as much technology is how - or why.

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

Ask dez if a third step counts!!!

Don't waste your time with him - he either hates the Cowboys, has an obsession with defending football of officials, or maybe both. Plus he seems to think these discussions are personal manhood contests of some kind. He has nothing credible or objective to offer..

It's like his insistence that Waller was already headed up the field when he caught the ball. This is simply dishonest on his part given his two requirements not to be headed up the field - the replay shows clearly Waller had his back to the defender Kearse when he caught the ball thrown slightly behind him rather than out in front of him as intended, and as a result he was also running parallel to the sidelines not up the field, as he would have been absolutely correct had the ball been thrown when and where it was supposed to be. In fact the only reason Kearse even got the chance to make that play was Waller had to slow up for the ball and then began his turn closer to the hashmark because the poor throw allowed Kearse to close down. If that ball is out i front of Waller then Waller just follows his own momentum into the turn up filed closer to the sideline and withmore momentum and speed for a big gainer..

The only reason that didn't happen is the throw was off and behind Waller and he couldn't turn up the field as he would have been able to. It was absolutely a catch and fumble. They screwed up badly in New York.. The mystery is given their access to as much technology is how - or why.

That big Blue M&M had a TV Screen the length of a football field to review the play and did not throw a 1st half challenge flag that would have given a huge momentum change and field position turnaround.

Cowboys left incompetence for insanity at Head Coach.

McCarthy is an idiot but you can't challenge a booth review, which is what this was.

 

[cowboyjoe]

We will never know because our coach didn't challenge it.

McCarthy was told new York NFL called in incomplete pass but McCarthy wasn't told he could still challenge. But that's not the kicker, the left guard moved 7 times in that game even on last pass interference on brown when the we grabbed browns head and pulled him into him

 

[MarcusRock]

There is no point in arguing this. We disagree. I think it was a catch and fumble. Many people agree with me. You think otherwise. I am not going to convince you and you will not convince me so let's put this to bed. It is a moot point.

No point in arguing? You were the one that engaged me and I merely responded with my case. Lol.

 

[MarcusRock]

Let's review. How many feet does a player have? 2. In all situations when catching and establishing possession such as when you're heading out of bounds how many feet have to be down? 2. How many steps did Waller take? 2. Is bringing the ball to your left side as you turn clockwise a football move? Yes. Did the refs get a huge payday at the sportsbook for robbing Dem Boyz? Yes.

You have to look at the rules I posted and at part (c). After control and 2 feet there is another part that has to be completed and only AFTER the other 2 parts are completed. This is where people are getting hung up but I understand the metrics at play so ....

 

[Captain43Crash]

We will never know because our coach didn't challenge it.

He would have lost the challenge, but I still think it should have been challenged.

Everyone could see it was a catch, and knew it was a forced fumble, but the league sticks to it’ stupid rule( a football move).

 

[Ranched]

​

 

[Captain43Crash]

I give up trying to understand what the nfl considers a catch anymore however I think 99% of the people watching could agree that was a catch

In the real world it was a catch.
In the NFL it is not a catch!

Change the stupid rule NFL!

 

[MarcusRock]

Taking an additional step is only one way to perform an act common to the game. Where I feel that he made an act common to the game is turning upfield. He caught the pass and turned upfield to run with it when it was knocked out. It was a close play, though, that could have gone either way and I felt because of that the officials should have determined that there wasn't enough evidence to overturn the turnover.

Yep, I know. And the turning upfield is what everyone is hanging their hat on because they know a 3rd step didn't happen and that ends things right there, similar to people trying to legislate Dez being upright instead of going to the ground. But in the rules you quote, a football move can only happen AFTER control and two steps are completed, not AS control and 2 steps are occurring. That is clear. After the 2nd step, Waller is already heading upfield. You can't turn upfield while already headed upfield.

This is what I mean when I say that turning upfield is meant for a receiver that's stopped to catch a pass (or leaps for one) while facing the QB and then turns to run upfield. A 3rd step is meant for a player who is already running, similar to an over the shoulder catch on a bomb down the sideline. A player stretching a ball is for one that's held up by a defender and prevented from doing almost anything else, so that becomes the football move unless the player lunges immediately for the goal line, etc. Avoiding a defender is on your 2 feet and juking or stiff arming. Tucking is catching (most likely with your hands) and pulling the ball into you and moving to your "carry hand." Control "long enough to do so" could be for a receiver that's bear hugged by a defender and can't do any demonstrative football move.

If you notice, these football moves all address different types of scenarios that cover a vast gamut of what could happen to a receiver on his feet. No two moves the rules list cover the same scenario. To me, Waller fell into the "already running" scenario and that is definitely the 3rd step football move application. Even on the video clip of the ref explaining to McCarthy what happened, you see him holding up 3 fingers. They didn't keep it there to read his lips but my guess is he was saying NY said the 3 steps football move wasn't met, which we all know is the case.

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

Stop feeding the troll. It's waste of time. All your doing is feeding his ego and need for attention.

 

[MarcusRock]

Stop feeding the troll. It's waste of time. All your doing is feeding his ego and need for attention.

The only one with a need for something is you, apparently. You had your chance at the discussion and since you clearly can't overcome what's laid out in opposition, you're relegated to the sidelines whispering in the ears of others trying to rally them to your cause. You can't tear down my argument so you get all mad and resort to personal attacks .... again, from the sidelines. We all know about a person's strength of argument when they have to resort to that. I've seen it all before. Can't best someone's LEGO structure, well then just try to smash the entire structure. Another also-ran hot on the trail. Lol.

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

The troll is mad Awwwwww because I won't waste my time with a man with no credibility because his intellectual flexibility is challenged on by the intellectual infallibility, he imagines he possesses.

A person who believes they are never wrong and incapable of ever acknowledging when he is actually wrong is not worth attempting to debate because he is no different than someone predetermined to deadlock a criminal or civil jury to suit their own personal agenda rather than administer justice.of any kind.

And as I said above it's a waste of time to exchange ideas with that sort of person because the facts and truth only matter to them when it suits them. Ask yourself - how many times has he crticized officials for bad calls in critical situations against Dallas? And how is it he only calls out bad calls that went Dallas' way?

I think Stephen A Smith actually wants Dallas to succeed on the field more than this troll does.

 

[Runwildboys]

Thing is he didn't actually continue in the direction. It was a shallow cross under the defense meant to lead Waller into a natural turn up field outside the near hashmark and closer to the near sideline, in the case beating both the defender on the sideline and Kearse closing on him from the middle down the field for a potentially huge play the ball was thrown just behind Waller and he had to move back and wait as the ball arrived which why he turned up field almost immediately rather than following hi momentum toward the sideline area. He turns up into Kearse because the ball was late and behind him, otherwise that's a significant gainer because no one is out there to bring him down and Kearse had an awful angle to the ball if thrown were it was supposed to be.

Waller clearly had possession two feet on the field and then turned up field.

BTW it is listed as one of the football moves so it is a requirement like the other football moves.

It's only a requirement if none of the other criteria are met. I agree he turned upfield after catching it (possibly not to the extreme that you see it, but I don't think that matters) and it was a fumble.

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

I will add one thing - this would be another excellent purpose for SkyJudge as Mike Florio and others have recommended if only because the on-field camera angles particularly the sideline to sidleline view is skewed sharply- making the field more parallelogrammical than rectangular which only confuses matters further. Aerial cameras could more easily more accurately and more quickly give the booth officials the ability to make those judgments more accurately.. The same camera problem causes absolute havoc in european football (soccer) matches with the off-side rule which is maddening enough without deceptive camera angles confusing matters further

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

It's only a requirement if none of the other criteria are met. I agree he turned upfield after catching it (possibly not to the extreme that you see it, but I don't think that matters) and it was a fumble.

I Will correct myself it wasn't a shallow cross. It was a short I'm not even sure the term for this one but Waller went sideline to sideline before turning up field because the ball was either late or simply behind him and forced him to pull up and look back for it rather than move forward and meet the ball moving up field. As I suggested above I think they didn't have any straight-on angle, at least none they chose to look at. .

I would ask this of the troll but it seems that he believes beginning to turn up filed or running at a slight angle is automatically running up field before the catch, but beginning to take a step is not actually taking a step. Isn't that logic just a little well, inconsistent? Feel free to ask the troll just don't feed him too much.

 

[Runwildboys]

Don't waste your time with him - he either hates the Cowboys, has an obsession with defending football of officials, or maybe both. Plus he seems to think these discussions are personal manhood contests of some kind. He has nothing credible or objective to offer..

It's like his insistence that Waller was already headed up the field when he caught the ball. This is simply dishonest on his part given his two requirements not to be headed up the field - the replay shows clearly Waller had his back to the defender Kearse when he caught the ball thrown slightly behind him rather than out in front of him as intended, and as a result he was also running parallel to the sidelines not up the field, as he would have been absolutely correct had the ball been thrown when and where it was supposed to be. In fact the only reason Kearse even got the chance to make that play was Waller had to slow up for the ball and then began his turn closer to the hashmark because the poor throw allowed Kearse to close down. If that ball is out i front of Waller then Waller just follows his own momentum into the turn up filed closer to the sideline and withmore momentum and speed for a big gainer..

The only reason that didn't happen is the throw was off and behind Waller and he couldn't turn up the field as he would have been able to. It was absolutely a catch and fumble. They screwed up badly in New York.. The mystery is given their access to as much technology is how - or why.

I disagree with him on this call too, but there's no reason to question his fandom. He posts what he believes to be true, whether it goes for against the Cowboys. IMO, he isn't operating with any agenda other than trying to show what he honestly believes are the facts.

 

[Runwildboys]

I Will correct it wasn't a shallow cross. It was a short I'm not even sure the term for this one but Waller went sideline to sideline before turning up field because the ball was either late or simply behind him and forced him to pull up and look back for it rather than move forward and meet the ball moving up field. As I suggested above I think they didn't have any straight-on angle, at least none they chose to look at. .

Yes, he definitely turned upfield. It didn't look to me like a hard change of direction, but it was a change of direction nonetheless, and IMO meets the criteria necessary to rule it a catch...and subsequent fumble.

 

[ryanbabs]

There is no point in arguing this. We disagree. I think it was a catch and fumble. Many people agree with me. You think otherwise. I am not going to convince you and you will not convince me so let's put this to bed. It is a moot point.

He will still argue with you.

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

I disagree with him on this call too, but there's no reason to question his fandom. He posts what he believes to be true, whether it goes for against the Cowboys. IMO, he isn't operating with any agenda other than trying to show what he honestly believes are the facts.

I respectfully disagree. This is a person who thinks this some personal battle and brags about "crushing" or "destroying" Are you or I out to do that? No.

He also just and egomanical attitude - he is smarter than everyone is right about everything and never wrong. None of us is never wrong. He also has an animus toward people who don't share his views they are whiners without exception because again he can never be wrong about the officials being incompetent or inconsistent or in some cases even more disturbing possibilities. (and not just or necessarily about the Boys ask a fan in New Orleans about that last Championship game they played in!).

I question his fandom because the ONLY bad calls he seems concerned by are the ones that have on occasion favored the Cowboys. Combine that with his inflexibility on simple intellectual facts - and by the way implying people who don't agree with him are kinda crazy, he doesn't sound like much of a Dallas fan. Maybe I am wrong and he is in which case I will apologize for suggesting he wasn't a fan. But I won't apologize for saying discussing any matters with him is a waste of time because truth and facts don't matter to him.

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

He will still argue with you.

This.

God I'm jealous when people just say what I really wanted to.