Dawn of Justice

[BAZ]

CAUTION: MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD!


When should we expect Supes back in action? End of the first Justice League or JL2?

I think he will either be fully in action by the start of one and they set up the threat of DS in the other movies of jla members.

 

[DallasEast]

WARNING: QUOTED SPOILER & POSSIBLE SPOILER EXPLANATION!

When should we expect Supes back in action? End of the first Justice League or JL2?

That's an interesting question. After Superman killed Doomsday and fell into his death like coma in DC comics back in the 1990's, several people stepped up to fill his void: Steel, Superboy and Cyborg Superman (I hope I'm not forgetting someone). Essentially, the upcoming movies substitute those character's integrated stories with the creation of the Justice League.

Ultimately, Mongul was the threat that Superman responded to after awaking from his coma. Edit: I see Baz beat to what I was about to say next. I think the threat this time will be Darkseid based on the Batman's dreams/visions. The firepits are a dead giveaway. My guess? Superman returns (no pun intended) at the end of JL1 as the threat of Darkseid is at its peak.

 

[mattjames2010]

Trash film.

Can we all agree at this point Goyer is a hack writer?

 

[BAZ]

This film has a lot of problems, too many to list off. Some will probably be fixed in the four hour ultra hard R rated blue ray release, but one major problem I see is pacing.

Lex and Supes face off on the roof after Lex pushes Lois off (and she gets caught a second later, how do you build tension when Clarky can fly anywhere so fast, ridiculous) then the ultimatum is issued over Martha and a timer is set. What happens next should be a sense of urgency as only an hour is left, but what do you get instead? Gal Wodot surfing the net for hot superguys in her area. Terrible.

I thought the rotten tomatoes score was very harsh before I saw the film was and believed it was some eventual backlash over the glut of Cape movies being made, but that "Martha " scene earned it for me. Painful to get through. I look forward to the memes generated from this alone.

I could see this turning off some people for life against superhero flicks. No small fete.

 

[cml750]

Yours is an opinion I'm really interested in reading and here's why. In my opinion, DOJ is not as good as MOS. So I have been somewhat shocked to read some moviegoers (not paid critics mind you) who previously described MOS as average, fair, or "the worst movie ever"--turn around and say DOJ was a good movie, very good movie, etc. It really demonstrates to me how enormously varied opinion can be about something commonly observed.

DallasEast, I respect your opinion but I thought this was 10 times the movie MOS was.

 

[CyberB0b]

I saw it today. Wasn't great, but it was entertaining. I liked it.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

DallasEast, I respect your opinion but I thought this was 10 times the movie MOS was.

Not for me. MOS action scenes were way better.

 

[DallasEast]

DallasEast, I respect your opinion but I thought this was 10 times the movie MOS was.

You're not alone in that assessment. Honestly, it fascinates the heck out of me.

 

[Stash]

I was in agreement on parents. Until they connected the dots.

That was the entire reason why they included it. That was Snyder's 'big hook' which apparently he thinks was much smarter than anyone else did.

 

[Stash]

Saw it today on IMAX, I had a great time and don't really see what everyone is complaining about.

Was it perfect? No. But I wasn't expecting perfection.

One thing that's always been interesting for me with DC, is that DC tends to take itself pretty seriously. Whether that's Batman, Constantine, etc. Where Marvel seems to be having a grand old time having the Hulk punch Thor out of the screen, Batman V Superman seemed super serious.

I wonder if that's a conscious decision they've made.

Personally, I'm glad they killed Supes off for the time being. He's so overpowered that it's nearly impossible face any realistic conflict when he's around, unless you want to bring Kryptonite (or magic, I guess) into every damn story line.

I think it's very much a conscious decision. The studio saw what the dark tone of Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy made for them at the box office and have decided upon that as the tone for the cinematic universe, even with polar opposite characters like Superman.

As for Superman? He'll be back in a hurry for Justice League.

 

[Stash]

Didn't Bat make it a point to say that it was abandoned part of city?


MoS was actually pretty good. Sometimes you have to watch these movies a few times.
Going in to movie for first by time.... A lot of minds are made up beforehand or just not ready to enjoy the 2 hour journey,

Yes, that was Snyder being reactionary towards the unexpected criticism he got for Man of Steel. His thin skin is showing. Multiple times during Dawn of Justice, they went out of their way to tell everyone that there were no civilians around.

 

[Stash]

Yeah. The whole sequence was very Independence Day-ish. I always wonder if it's an accurate representation of how people would react to something like that happening whenever I see it done in movies or on television. Then again it bugs the heck out of me when a fender-bender occurs on the highway and the people ahead of me drive one mile per hour to gawk at the scene. They make the situation worse for police or ambulances trying to make it through the idiot created traffic. It makes me think there will always be some people who are involuntarily compelled to stop and stare regardless of the immediate situation to others or themselves.

I did like how the sequence was done from the ground perspective. I kept trying to run the same sequence of events in MOS from Kal-El and Zod's vantage points through my mind's eye at the same time as DOJ's sequence was playing out. It wouldn't surprise me the heat vision beams that Wayne saw cut the building in half were timed and angled exactly as they happened when Zod first manifested the power in MOS. I'm thinking of doing a split screen splice of both movies' sequences after DOJ's release and see if I've guessed right.

That was one of my favorite parts of the film. I thought it was a great choice to include a 'human perspective' of the battle that was happening in the city. It gave the whole thing a bigger impact than it had from simply watching the superheroes' perspective as they battled.

It really had a 9/11 type feel for me, especially with Wayne running towards that building and the dust cloud engulfing him. It struck a chord.

 

[Stash]

WARNING: QUOTED SPOILER & POSSIBLE SPOILER EXPLANATION!




That's an interesting question. After Superman killed Doomsday and fell into his death like coma in DC comics back in the 1990's, several people stepped up to fill his void: Steel, Superboy and Cyborg Superman (I hope I'm not forgetting someone). Essentially, the upcoming movies substitute those character's integrated stories with the creation of the Justice League.

Ultimately, Mongul was the threat that Superman responded to after awaking from his coma. Edit: I see Baz beat to what I was about to say next. I think the threat this time will be Darkseid based on the Batman's dreams/visions. The firepits are a dead giveaway. My guess? Superman returns (no pun intended) at the end of JL1 as the threat of Darkseid is at its peak.

Wasn't there also a 'Last Son of Kryton'/Eradicator or something? I'm remembering four of them.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Yes, that was Snyder being reactionary towards the unexpected criticism he got for Man of Steel. His thin skin is showing. Multiple times during Dawn of Justice, they went out of their way to tell everyone that there were no civilians around.

Multiple times?

What else?

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Hoping for better things ahead.

 

[Stash]

Multiple times?

What else?

Yeah, multiple lines of dialogue in the film made sure to tell the viewer that there were no civilians around. You didn't notice it?

 

[DallasEast]

Wasn't there also a 'Last Son of Kryton'/Eradicator or something? I'm remembering four of them.

You're right. I had forgotten all about the fourth pretender.

 

[DallasEast]

That was the entire reason why they included it. That was Snyder's 'big hook' which apparently he thinks was much smarter than anyone else did.

That's one of my hangups about the movie. Snyder could have omitted every flashback or montage dealing with the death of Bruce's parents UNTIL the moment Kal-El mentions Martha's name. Snyder could have used the opening flashback sequence and modified it into a simple montage of:

1) Glimpse of killer
2) Glimpse of gun firing
3) Glimpse of Thomas reeling
4) Glimpse of gun firing a second time
5) Glimpse of Martha reeling
6) The length of time in would take Thomas to utter "Martha"
7) Glimpse of young Bruce's face

In other words, a montage of images, seven/eight seconds max, racing through Batman's mind before screaming at Superman, "Why did you say that name?!?"

Maybe it's cruel to treat part of the audience as ignorant regarding their knowledge of Bruce's parents or Clark's parents (both sets!)--or heck, even Diana's, lol--but the names are a part of American (if not world) modern day mythology. There have been movies. There have been television shows. There have been decades and decades of comic books, newspaper articles, SNL skits, etc. The freaking internet has been around since Al Gore created it! If there are people out there who don't know these central characters by now it's their problem in my opinion. /rant off

 

[DallasEast]

Yeah, multiple lines of dialogue in the film made sure to tell the viewer that there were no civilians around. You didn't notice it?

It was very transparently done. Snyder wimped out but it's totally understandable. He took the book approach in MOS but ran from it in this film. Heck, in the legendary storyline, Doomsday came from out of nowhere and started his murderous trek towards Metropolis. Unlucky civilians who crossed his path were smashed. Superheroes, including a few members of the Justice League were soundly beaten or severely injured after engaging Doomsday outside the city. Doomsday's stomped his way into the city, Superman confronted him, and they fought to the death until Superman used his last ounce of strength in a killing blow. LOL! THE FIGHT ENDED RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE DAILY PLANET! Yeah, Snyder bent WAY over in that aspect for this film.

 

[BAZ]

People will tell you this movie is what happens when grim meets dark and squirts out a babby. But I firmly believe at the end of the Bat v Boyscout fight when bold Bruce slams a kitchen sink over his head it's Snyders version of humor.